The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[macandally]

I still cannot buy into the McLeish thing and the only argument that seems to be put foward is that he is a nice guy and that its not his fault.

For me, against Wolves there are a few things to consider and questions asked:

1. We would expect to beat a Wolves side in the bottom three comfortably, it looked bloody hard work to me.

2. The formation and team put out yesterday was going to be overun, it was commented on by a few people before a ball was kicked and it did.

3. Why did we not make changes when Wolves were all over us, why stick to a formation and set of tactics that clearly were not working?

4. Why are we playing a loan signing in a 4-4-2 whilst our biggest attacking threat plays out of position on the left wing?

5. Why did we not make an attacking substitution or up the tempo after Wolves went down to 10 men?

6. Why did we make an attacking substitution after we had taken the lead and were trying to see out a lead?

I appreciate that football is "a funny old game" but the decision making behind those decisions are bewildering. I have deliberately left out the Gabby/Warnock substitution as who knows whether that was tactical or medicinal, but I think the latter.

If someone can answer those questions then maybe I can see what McLeish is trying to do, until then, I genuinely believe he doensnt know what he is doing.

[thetrees]

It would be interesting to dig out the thread after 'that' Everton away victory, to see how lucky the manager was that day.

People do comment on similar circumstances in completely different ways, depending upon their standpoint.

Indeed.

It's amazing how reluctant you are, for instance, to refer to O'Neill (be it directly or indirectly) when discussing the Villa in the here and now.

He does seem obsessed with MON

Is that post on poster?

I am merely offering perspective. As it happens i think yesterday was a lucky victory, and was just offering up another lucky victory, and particularly how people reacted to it, for comparison.

[Villarocker]

Tbf most of our games this season have been won by individual brilliance....Gabby at home to Wigan, Alrighton at Bolton, Ireland at Chelsea and Keane in the second half today. I'd still say McLeish's poor tactics have contributed to us not winning more games this season.

That said it was a brave call to take off Gaby and bring on Warnock but one McLeish got bang on so well done to him for that.

Never thought i would see the day when someone would applaud the decision of swapping Gabby for Warnock! Do people really think that it was that move by AM that won us that game? Or do you think it may have just had something to do with Wolves losing their two central midfielders who were dominating us?

If Warnock is so "solid" as someone said, why was he dropped from the starting line-up?

[Houlston]

If Warnock is so "solid" as someone said, why was he dropped from the starting line-up?

So players never go through bad patches of form? You do know that Warnock was very good when he came on?

[Moorski]

Gabby had to be taken off at half time due to illness.

[Villarocker]

McLeish is doing OK but its a long shot for him to win the fans but he make a good signing in Robbie Keane.

Credit to him for seeing the potential in Keane to make a difference to our side, fair play to AM for that. However, Ireland and N'Zogbia both looked to be getting back to their old form until a couple of games ago. If Keane starts every game whilst here, and those two don't get a look in, will AM still be able to get good performances out of them for the rest of the season?

[ciggiesnbeer]

Never thought i would see the day when someone would applaud the decision of swapping Gabby for Warnock! Do people really think that it was that move by AM that won us that game? Or do you think it may have just had something to do with Wolves losing their two central midfielders who were dominating us?

If Warnock is so "solid" as someone said, why was he dropped from the starting line-up?

Both Wolves midfielders were on the pitch when we equalised. Besides if you want to take away the credit McLeish has said he didnt want to bring gabby off, gabby was sick. (He may have been planning on bringing someone else off instead though). Bringing on Warnock silenced Kightly who has been ripping through Clark.

Yeah wolves imploded (they should have been down to 9 men after the foul on Bent) but we played well and were in control for much of the game regardless, it was an open flowing game and I enjoyed our performance. Even better that we won.

[Villarocker]

If Warnock is so "solid" as someone said, why was he dropped from the starting line-up?

So players never go through bad patches of form? You do know that Warnock was very good when he came on?

Yes, they do but his is more a permanent spell of bad form than a patch! And yes, he did do well when he came on and actually got close to his player for a change, as well as putting in a few decent challenges, although one could have seen him maybe red carded by other refs!

[Villarocker]

Never thought i would see the day when someone would applaud the decision of swapping Gabby for Warnock! Do people really think that it was that move by AM that won us that game? Or do you think it may have just had something to do with Wolves losing their two central midfielders who were dominating us?

If Warnock is so "solid" as someone said, why was he dropped from the starting line-up?

Both Wolves midfielders were on the pitch when we equalised. Besides if you want to take away the credit McLeish has said he didnt want to bring gabby off, gabby was sick. (He may have been planning on bringing someone else off instead though). Bringing on Warnock silenced Kightly who has been ripping through Clark.

Yeah wolves imploded (they should have been down to 9 men after the foul on Bent) but we played well and were in control for much of the game regardless, it was an open flowing game and I enjoyed our performance. Even better that we won.

Both were on the pitch when we scored in the first half but we still went in 2-1 down so what value does that add to your point?

Also, how do you know that Kightly would have continued to rip through Clark had Gabby not been ill and been able to get back more and help him out defensively?

[Houlston]

I still cannot buy into the McLeish thing and the only argument that seems to be put foward is that he is a nice guy and that its not his fault.

For me, against Wolves there are a few things to consider and questions asked:

1. We would expect to beat a Wolves side in the bottom three comfortably, it looked bloody hard work to me.

2. The formation and team put out yesterday was going to be overun, it was commented on by a few people before a ball was kicked and it did.

3. Why did we not make changes when Wolves were all over us, why stick to a formation and set of tactics that clearly were not working?

4. Why are we playing a loan signing in a 4-4-2 whilst our biggest attacking threat plays out of position on the left wing?

5. Why did we not make an attacking substitution or up the tempo after Wolves went down to 10 men?

6. Why did we make an attacking substitution after we had taken the lead and were trying to see out a lead?

I appreciate that football is "a funny old game" but the decision making behind those decisions are bewildering. I have deliberately left out the Gabby/Warnock substitution as who knows whether that was tactical or medicinal, but I think the latter.

If someone can answer those questions then maybe I can see what McLeish is trying to do, until then, I genuinely believe he doensnt know what he is doing.

1) Expect? Hardly any team should expect to beat anyone, how did this poor Wolves side get on at Spurs last week?

2) Who were these people that commented on it? The whole away pub was buzzing with the fact Gardner was starting and that Warnock had been dropped.

3) Perhaps it was something to do with the fact Gabby was ill and it would have been difficult to make a change without assessing Gabby at half time otherwise we may have wasted a sub.

4) Is this a joke? The one you moan about won us the game by playing where he did.

5) Because at that time we were in the ascendency anyway.

6) Because like teams such as United we went for it, instead of reverting to the perceived McLeish type. We could have scored with Bent (twice), Keane, Weimann and Albrighton. Whilst many say we were lucky to win I thought we were unlucky not to score more with the chances we had.

This is just a different view point and one I doubt you'll subscribe to but try not to let it wind you up and comment on any kind of McLeish T-shirt badge or any other paraphernalia associated with a fan club that doesnt exist.

[Villarocker]

I still cannot buy into the McLeish thing and the only argument that seems to be put foward is that he is a nice guy and that its not his fault.

For me, against Wolves there are a few things to consider and questions asked:

1. We would expect to beat a Wolves side in the bottom three comfortably, it looked bloody hard work to me.

2. The formation and team put out yesterday was going to be overun, it was commented on by a few people before a ball was kicked and it did.

3. Why did we not make changes when Wolves were all over us, why stick to a formation and set of tactics that clearly were not working?

4. Why are we playing a loan signing in a 4-4-2 whilst our biggest attacking threat plays out of position on the left wing?

5. Why did we not make an attacking substitution or up the tempo after Wolves went down to 10 men?

6. Why did we make an attacking substitution after we had taken the lead and were trying to see out a lead?

I appreciate that football is "a funny old game" but the decision making behind those decisions are bewildering. I have deliberately left out the Gabby/Warnock substitution as who knows whether that was tactical or medicinal, but I think the latter.

If someone can answer those questions then maybe I can see what McLeish is trying to do, until then, I genuinely believe he doensnt know what he is doing.

1) Expect? Hardly any team should expect to beat anyone, how did this poor Wolves side get on at Spurs last week?

2) Who were these people that commented on it? The whole away pub was buzzing with the fact Gardner was starting and that Warnock had been dropped.

3) Perhaps it was something to do with the fact Gabby was ill and it would have been difficult to make a change without assessing Gabby at half time otherwise we may have wasted a sub.

4) Is this a joke? The one you moan about won us the game by playing where he did.

5) Because at that time we were in the ascendency anyway.

6) Because like teams such as United we went for it, instead of reverting to the perceived McLeish type. We could have scored with Bent (twice), Keane, Weimann and Albrighton. Whilst many say we were lucky to win I thought we were unlucky not to score more with the chances we had.

They are all fair and valid points but remember that we could have gone in at half time having conceded 4 or 5!

[Houlston]

They are all fair and valid points but remember that we could have gone in at half time having conceded 4 or 5!

This is also true but we could have been two nil up before Wolves even started to attack. Its all ifs and buts and what ifs but ultimately we won and that makes me and should make every Villa fan happy (not saying you arent happy btw).

[macandally]

I still cannot buy into the McLeish thing and the only argument that seems to be put foward is that he is a nice guy and that its not his fault.

For me, against Wolves there are a few things to consider and questions asked:

1. We would expect to beat a Wolves side in the bottom three comfortably, it looked bloody hard work to me.

2. The formation and team put out yesterday was going to be overun, it was commented on by a few people before a ball was kicked and it did.

3. Why did we not make changes when Wolves were all over us, why stick to a formation and set of tactics that clearly were not working?

4. Why are we playing a loan signing in a 4-4-2 whilst our biggest attacking threat plays out of position on the left wing?

5. Why did we not make an attacking substitution or up the tempo after Wolves went down to 10 men?

6. Why did we make an attacking substitution after we had taken the lead and were trying to see out a lead?

I appreciate that football is "a funny old game" but the decision making behind those decisions are bewildering. I have deliberately left out the Gabby/Warnock substitution as who knows whether that was tactical or medicinal, but I think the latter.

If someone can answer those questions then maybe I can see what McLeish is trying to do, until then, I genuinely believe he doensnt know what he is doing.

1) Expect? Hardly any team should expect to beat anyone, how did this poor Wolves side get on at Spurs last week?

2) Who were these people that commented on it? The whole away pub was buzzing with the fact Gardner was starting and that Warnock had been dropped.

3) Perhaps it was something to do with the fact Gabby was ill and it would have been difficult to make a change without assessing Gabby at half time otherwise we may have wasted a sub.

4) Is this a joke? The one you moan about won us the game by playing where he did.

5) Because at that time we were in the ascendency anyway.

6) Because like teams such as United we went for it, instead of reverting to the perceived McLeish type. We could have scored with Bent (twice), Keane, Weimann and Albrighton. Whilst many say we were lucky to win I thought we were unlucky not to score more with the chances we had.

This is just a different view point and one I doubt you'll subscribe to but try not to let it wind you up and comment on any kind of McLeish T-shirt badge or any other paraphernalia associated with a fan club that doesnt exist.

1. I expect a team of our stature to beat a Wolves side in the bottom 3.

2. Read the match thread.

3. Gabby was ill before kick off, what your admitting is there was no plan B if he was unfit to carry on.

4. Two wonder strikes, no one will be happier if he carries those on but you and I both know that it is unlikely. 6 games though against a 5 year contract. I know where my focus would be and I seem to recall McLeish pledging to play Gabby where he belongs when he came in. More bluster.

5. No we werent, we just kept the ball in our half. Is that what you call ascendency?

6. We went for it? By asking Dunne and Collins to drop onto our 18 yard box and pump the ball forward for players to chase?

Your right, we will never agree on McLeish. Occasionally he will get lucky like today, but generally, you will spend most of your time in the usual position of trying to defend him.

[Villarocker]

Of course I am happy with the win Houlston. I am not a fan who hopes we lose just so that it shows AM or anyone else in a bad light. I would love nothing more than for AM to be successful as our manager because that means my team is doing well and that is what we all want at the end of the day - a winning Villa!

I even replied back to AM's infamous email saying the same sort of thing, along with a few other personal thoughts of mine lol.

[John_Lerwill]

That said it was a brave call to take off Gaby and bring on Warnock but one McLeish got bang on so well done to him for that.

Hardly brave - Gabby was too ill to play in the 2nd half!

Nobody appears to be picking that up, Denis. The post-match interview with AM confirms that Gabby had to go off at half-time as he was ill - he was ill before the game but opted to start.

Also, there are some who are giving credit to McLeish for including Gardner and Keane in the starting line-up. These were pretty well enforced selections because of injuries to others including Ireland.

It almost seems that some good is coming out of matches in spite of McLeish, not because of his intentions.

This win was very welcome, but we still cannot get away from the fact that 4 of Villa's 6 wins this season have been obtained against Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton and Wolves - all teams that were having bad runs at the time that Villa played them.

It will be very interesting to see what happens against a Hughes-inspired QPR. A well deserved win against them and I might then begin to think that perhaps AM is doing something right after orchestrating 5 home matches without a win.

BTW, I thoroughly agree with Julie that abuse at your own players (any player in fact) is not warranted. If that is all that can be offered then those "supporters" be better not present at VP.

[Houlston]

1. I expect a team of our stature to beat a Wolves side in the bottom 3.

2. Read the match thread.

3. Gabby was ill before kick off, what your admitting is there was no plan B if he was unfit to carry on.

4. Two wonder strikes, no one will be happier if he carries those on but you and I both know that it is unlikely. 6 games though against a 5 year contract. I know where my focus would be and I seem to recall McLeish pledging to play Gabby where he belongs when he came in. More bluster.

5. No we werent, we just kept the ball in our half. Is that what you call ascendency?

6. We went for it? By asking Dunne and Collins to drop onto our 18 yard box and pump the ball forward for players to chase?

Your right, we will never agree on McLeish. Occasionally he will get lucky like today, but generally, you will spend most of your time in the usual position of trying to defend him.

1) I think you will be easily disappointed for many years to come then, whether we have McLeish or whoever you would have appointed.

2) Ahh the match thread, no thanks I imagine its mainly full of snide comments and abuse about everything and anything. I'll bet there are numerous **** Off McLeish and McClunge, its very boring.

3) I did not know he was ill before kick off, that does seem odd to pick him then unless of course Gabby was convinced he could play. Where was this reported then?

4) Football is allowed to include wonder strikes, either way he was justified and won us the game regardless of whose contract is longer.

5) It really wasnt just in our half, otherwise how did we even manager to equalise? We were pushing up.

6) Hmm and yet none of the chances I mentioned came from a hoof did they?

I know you cant help yourself with the defending McLeish comments etc but its not a case of that its just that I have a different opinion to you that everything is not so terrible. All backed by stats, more points, more goals, less conceded, Bent still getting around 1 in 2. There are of course other plus points like Gardner, Clark, Ireland oh and very importantly a squad that is not divided. But of course Houllier had a plan.

[macandally]

I know you cant help yourself with the defending McLeish comments etc but its not a case of that its just that I have a different opinion to you that everything is not so terrible. All backed by stats, more points, more goals, less conceded, Bent still getting around 1 in 2. There are of course other plus points like Gardner, Clark, Ireland oh and very importantly a squad that is not divided. But of course Houllier had a plan.

You can keep your stats, just look at what is happening, the way we play and be honest with yourself. There is no future with Alex McLeish. He is managing this team day by day with no thought for 2/3 years down the line. He is on borrowed time already and he knows it.

The express now reporting we want to sign 31 year old Robbie Keane on a long term deal, that is the future McLeish brings.

There is no team shape, no cohesion, no desire and ambition. We didnt force those goals yesterday by an effective game plan, they were two out of the blue strikes by a journeyman who if we are being honest, did little else in the game. If I was Mick McCarthy I would be livid as they had us by the balls and conspired to throw the game away!

Yesterday, we were very lucky. For you to credit that to anything else is just your usual argumentative rubbish.

[Houlston]

anything else is just your usual argumentative rubbish.

ha ha ha ha amazing, pot kettle.

:bonk:

[chappy]

1. I expect a team of our stature to beat a Wolves side in the bottom 3.

You would expect a side of Spurs' stature to beat them too I imagine?

You can never count on a win in this league.

[Zatman]

Jenas on Sky now praising McLeish saying he was a good manager and would do well here