Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Thing is though he had to use that money to buy players to change everton, where-as we have a very very good bunch of players (when all fit and willing) so those he would add to our squad would not be as essential as the signings he made for them. To be fair, Beattie was good before he got injured, Yakubu too, Fellini (??) has not been a disaster and is a rock for their midfield. Andy Johnson was a decent signing and scored goals, they didn't make a loss on him. Is Fellaini a £15m man??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yet on the other hand... Distin £5.5m Pienaar £2.5m Coleman 60k Saha Free Transfer Baines £6.5m Jagielka £5m Lescott £6m Howard £3.5m Neville £4.5m Arteta £2.5m Cahill £2m Yobo £4m All of which have paid their transfer fees imo and most are now worth more then the fee paid for them. How many Villa players can you apply to that? Sold Lescott for £24m. Sold Johnson for £12m Sold Beattie for £5m As you can see he spent a lot on Johnson and Beattie but recouped a lot of it back, as they weren't bad players at the time. He also did brilliantly to get £24m off City for Lescott. Also Fellaini is being linked with big money moves to the likes of Real, it probably won't happen but he is highly rated and I think they can get more then what they paid for him one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yet on the other hand... Distin £5.5m Pienaar £2.5m Coleman 60k Saha Free Transfer Baines £6.5m Jagielka £5m Lescott £6m Howard £3.5m Neville £4.5m Arteta £2.5m Cahill £2m Yobo £4m All of which have paid their transfer fees imo and most are now worth more then the fee paid for them. How many Villa players can you apply to that? Sold Lescott for £24m. Sold Johnson for £12m Sold Beattie for £5m As you can see he spent a lot on Johnson and Beattie but recouped a lot of it back, as they weren't bad players at the time. He also did brilliantly to get £24m off City for Lescott. Also Fellaini is being linked with big money moves to the likes of Real, it probably won't happen but he is highly rated and I think they can get more then what they paid for him one day. All fair points Question though: - Do Moyes achievements (nothing in terms of silverware/some good league positions as well as some bad ones), match the superlatives he receives in the media?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think what he does with minimal cash in the premiership when teams around him spend £30m+ more each season is incredible. Look at how close he was to us through MON's tenure and look at how much each spent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'd say yes. What managers have won trophies with teams outside the top four in the past ten years? Not many, and some teams were very fortunate or had spent a lot of money such as Portsmouth. I'd say getting Everton consistent top 7 finishes, a place in the Champions League and a FA Cup final which they were unfortunate in is quite good for a club like Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think what he does with minimal cash in the premiership when teams around him spend £30m+ more each season is incredible. Look at how close he was to us through MON's tenure and look at how much each spent! there was a team above them who spent a lot less. Also, there were teams below achieving more (in relative terms) and spending a lot lot less. As much as i hate him, and they will probably go down, I would say Holloway has achieved more at Blackpool - Blackpool FFS - in 2 seasons than Moyes has ever achieved at Everton (who are one of the most succesful English teams ever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I rate Fellaini, brilliant signing and has proved to be worth every single penny imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'd say yes. What managers have won trophies with teams outside the top four in the past ten years? Not many, and some teams were very fortunate or had spent a lot of money such as Portsmouth. I'd say getting Everton consistent top 7 finishes, a place in the Champions League and a FA Cup final which they were unfortunate in is quite good for a club like Everton. a club like Everton??? 9 times league champions 5 FA Cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villane Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'd say yes. What managers have won trophies with teams outside the top four in the past ten years? Not many, and some teams were very fortunate or had spent a lot of money such as Portsmouth. I'd say getting Everton consistent top 7 finishes, a place in the Champions League and a FA Cup final which they were unfortunate in is quite good for a club like Everton. Not quite sure what you mean by that remark, Everton are a massive club, bigger than Chelsea, Spurs or Man City, they should be challenging for the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'd say yes. What managers have won trophies with teams outside the top four in the past ten years? Not many, and some teams were very fortunate or had spent a lot of money such as Portsmouth. I'd say getting Everton consistent top 7 finishes, a place in the Champions League and a FA Cup final which they were unfortunate in is quite good for a club like Everton. a club like Everton??? 9 times league champions 5 FA Cups It doesn't matter what they have achieved in the past, when they don't have the resources to compete at the top. They have the resources for a mid-table side and Moyes is doing an excellent job getting them to compete with sides such as Liverpool, Man City, Tottenham and even Us in recent years, teams who have spent almost twice as much or more then the budget he's been given. They last won a trophy in 1995, and there is a reason for that, football has changed and it is a lot harder to win things when you aren't one of the big four sides. You use Wenger as an example for spending less, but yes of course he is a World Class Manager, no-one is saying Moyes is that. Moyes is a very good manager and is probably the ideal candidate for us if Houllier was to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 World Class Manager, no-one is saying Moyes is that. The media say hes top notch every week in some form - and youve just said you agree with them. There really are plenty of other managers working a lot more miracles than David Moyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Oh and taking your (it doesnt matter what theyve won in the past quote) I have said a number of times on here - we arent that bigger club, we havent won ought worthwile for donkeys. Its always met with absolute uproar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 World Class Manager, no-one is saying Moyes is that. The media say hes top notch every week in some form - and youve just said you agree with them. There really are plenty of other managers working a lot more miracles than David Moyes In your opinion you think they say he's 'world class' in some form. I disagree, he is made out to be a very good manager who has done an excellent job at Everton, and as usual expectations get higher and sometimes they can't be met when teams around you spend between £30-£200m to finish higher then you. I don't think any Everton fan can say he's not doing a very good job, I just think they feel it's gone a bit stale and they want a change as the have a similar season every year with them starting poorly and finishing strongly. EDIT: Your recent post, both us and Everton are 'big' clubs but we are clubs who don't have the resources to compete with the Sky 4 and Man City so I don't see why we can have any greater expectations then first of all getting into the top four, or winning a trophy. If they are not achievable then finishing the top 6 would be seen as a good season. Tottenham, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal all have better squads then Everton. All seven of them are above them in the table. I'd therefore suggest that Moyes is doing the best with what is available to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Also you mention the likes of Holloway, but it is a lot easier to stay get a team promoted into the Premier League and keep them in it, then winning more then one trophy or breaking the top four imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 World Class Manager, no-one is saying Moyes is that. The media say hes top notch every week in some form - and youve just said you agree with them. There really are plenty of other managers working a lot more miracles than David Moyes In your opinion you think they say he's 'world class' in some form. I disagree, he is made out to be a very good manager who has done an excellent job at Everton, and as usual expectations get higher and sometimes they can't be met when teams around you spend between £30-£200m to finish higher then you. I don't think any Everton fan can say he's not doing a very good job, I just think they feel it's gone a bit stale and they want a change as the have a similar season every year with them starting poorly and finishing strongly. Yep, fair points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Also you mention the likes of Holloway, but it is a lot easier to stay get a team promoted into the Premier League and keep them in it, then winning more then one trophy or breaking the top four imo. well thats specualtion. On which id have to disagree. I look at it like this: At the start of Moyes tenure - What did Everton fans expect of Everton over 9 years. I would say probably a little less than theyve got Now ask the same question about Blackpool and Doncaster and Norwich!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yet on the other hand... Distin £5.5m Pienaar £2.5m Coleman 60k Saha Free Transfer Baines £6.5m Jagielka £5m Lescott £6m Howard £3.5m Neville £4.5m Arteta £2.5m Cahill £2m Yobo £4m All of which have paid their transfer fees imo and most are now worth more then the fee paid for them. How many Villa players can you apply to that? Sold Lescott for £24m. Sold Johnson for £12m Sold Beattie for £5m As you can see he spent a lot on Johnson and Beattie but recouped a lot of it back, as they weren't bad players at the time. He also did brilliantly to get £24m off City for Lescott. Also Fellaini is being linked with big money moves to the likes of Real, it probably won't happen but he is highly rated and I think they can get more then what they paid for him one day. All fair points Question though: - Do Moyes achievements (nothing in terms of silverware/some good league positions as well as some bad ones), match the superlatives he receives in the media?? Why does that matter, as long as he does a good job here, I couldn't care less if the media loved or hated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yet on the other hand... Distin £5.5m Pienaar £2.5m Coleman 60k Saha Free Transfer Baines £6.5m Jagielka £5m Lescott £6m Howard £3.5m Neville £4.5m Arteta £2.5m Cahill £2m Yobo £4m All of which have paid their transfer fees imo and most are now worth more then the fee paid for them. How many Villa players can you apply to that? Sold Lescott for £24m. Sold Johnson for £12m Sold Beattie for £5m As you can see he spent a lot on Johnson and Beattie but recouped a lot of it back, as they weren't bad players at the time. He also did brilliantly to get £24m off City for Lescott. Also Fellaini is being linked with big money moves to the likes of Real, it probably won't happen but he is highly rated and I think they can get more then what they paid for him one day. All fair points Question though: - Do Moyes achievements (nothing in terms of silverware/some good league positions as well as some bad ones), match the superlatives he receives in the media?? Why does that matter, as long as he does a good job here, I couldn't care less if the media loved or hated him. My point is that I feel the media might be over exaggerating how good of a job he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Also you mention the likes of Holloway, but it is a lot easier to stay get a team promoted into the Premier League and keep them in it, then winning more then one trophy or breaking the top four imo. well thats specualtion. On which id have to disagree. I look at it like this: At the start of Moyes tenure - What did Everton fans expect of Everton over 9 years. I would say probably a little less than theyve got Now ask the same question about Blackpool and Doncaster and Norwich!! I guess it depends on the expectations. To me Everton have ambitions which are tougher to achieve them Blackpool. A lot of managers have got teams into the Premier League in a similar way to Holloway. Iain Dowie and Phil Brown for example, they had slightly better resources though. The problem is you can't compare managers to Moyes as he is one of the longest serving managers, and no-one has been in a job long enough to do similar. O'Neill was slightly comparable, but he had a lot more to work with albeit in a shorter amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yet on the other hand... Distin £5.5m Pienaar £2.5m Coleman 60k Saha Free Transfer Baines £6.5m Jagielka £5m Lescott £6m Howard £3.5m Neville £4.5m Arteta £2.5m Cahill £2m Yobo £4m All of which have paid their transfer fees imo and most are now worth more then the fee paid for them. How many Villa players can you apply to that? Sold Lescott for £24m. Sold Johnson for £12m Sold Beattie for £5m As you can see he spent a lot on Johnson and Beattie but recouped a lot of it back, as they weren't bad players at the time. He also did brilliantly to get £24m off City for Lescott. Also Fellaini is being linked with big money moves to the likes of Real, it probably won't happen but he is highly rated and I think they can get more then what they paid for him one day. All fair points Question though: - Do Moyes achievements (nothing in terms of silverware/some good league positions as well as some bad ones), match the superlatives he receives in the media?? Why does that matter, as long as he does a good job here, I couldn't care less if the media loved or hated him. My point is that I feel the media might be over exaggerating how good of a job he could do. I think we are all capable of making our own opinions up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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