billy_loes Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ive never known a set of fans keep a team up. It really is down to the players and manager. It's down to them yes but home advantage does exist. That's why most points are won at home in a season. But a team can also become afraid to play at home if they know they're in for a hiding from the fans. We at least need to let them know we're on their side. Do our bit as it were. Hasnt Houllier already said something to that effect about playing at home. Our home record was poor compared with away under O'Neill as well. I'll be taking some of the pressure off against Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 All I am saying is that we as fans are far worse than the majority of other fans around the country and we have a reputation for it too. And that in the 'future AV manager' thread it is a point to be made. Its not often I disagree with you but I think most fans at most clubs would behave exactly as we have / do. Arsenal fans have had a go at Wenger and even Manyoo fans were openly critical of Fergie. Do you think if Manutd were where we are that their fans would not be having a go at the final whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Do you think if Manutd were where we are that their fans would not be having a go at the final whistle.It's not the having a go at the final whistle people have a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ive never known a set of fans keep a team up. It really is down to the players and manager. It's down to them yes but home advantage does exist. That's why most points are won at home in a season. But a team can also become afraid to play at home if they know they're in for a hiding from the fans. We at least need to let them know we're on their side. Do our bit as it were. Do they deserve it though BOF?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 As for fans that are different to us to name a couple of locals - Blues, Wolves and Boggies have all been below us this season and facing the same relegation battle we're in, but I don't see them flooding national radio programmes with vitriol. Maybe its because for most of the season these teams have been putting 110% into the games, the managers have not antagonised the fan base and generally maximised the resources they have. We have had a group of players not giving the maximum. We have a manager who has antagonised the fan base continually, and seems to have minimised the resources we have. Houllier has come to the House that is Villa, and decided as is his right, that only the roof and the top floor were ok. He has decided the best way to rebuild the bottom floor is in several quick moves is to knock it down. That the whole building is in danger of collapse shows the utter naïvity of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2011 Our home record was poor compared with away under O'Neill as well. It's all relative. You're expected to do a lot better at home than you are away. We were good away from home under O'Neill but from a 'points accrued' point of view we only got more away points than home points in one of his 3 seasons. [table][row][mcol]Season[col]Home pts[col]Away pts[row][mcol]07/08[col]33[col]27[row][mcol]08/09[col]30[col]32[row][mcol]09/10[col]32[col]32[/table] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ive never known a set of fans keep a team up. It really is down to the players and manager. It's down to them yes but home advantage does exist. That's why most points are won at home in a season. But a team can also become afraid to play at home if they know they're in for a hiding from the fans. We at least need to let them know we're on their side. Do our bit as it were. Do they deserve it though BOF??Well you either support the side or you don't. If you do then they deserve it, it's that simple. If you don't, then you probably won't need to be paying £30 for a ticket next season ... I think the fans need to be leaving the stadium after each game having given their all, just like the players should. I think it's safe to say that we'd see a lot more from the players if they saw that the fans were right behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Levels of expectation I suppose. This. The Dingles and tesco bags belong in a relegation fight/championship. Their fans know that and so aren't asking for their manager to be sacked. We have a squad more than capable of a top 8 finish but down to some important factors, none moreso than our clueless f*("wit of a manager, we too are in a relegation battle with the dregs of the league. We don't belong down there and the fans are right to complain. We love the club, we expect (and deserve) better than the shite we are being served up. FWIW I don't think Houllier should be sacked now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_loes Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Our home record was poor compared with away under O'Neill as well. It's all relative. You're expected to do a lot better at home than you are away. We were good away from home under O'Neill but from a 'points accrued' point of view we only got more away points than home points in one of his 3 seasons. [table][row][mcol]Season[col]Home pts[col]Away pts[row][mcol]07/08[col]33[col]27[row][mcol]08/09[col]30[col]32[row][mcol]09/10[col]32[col]32[/table] I dont think the fans had much to do with those stats though. It was more to do with the way O'Neill set up. Soak it up and break away from home and piss around and hoof it at home. I reckon the 'piss around and hoof it' would gain us at least 7 points now and keep us up. 40-43 points to stay up ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2011 I dont think the fans had much to do with those stats though. It was more to do with the way O'Neill set up. Soak it up and break away from home and piss around and hoof it at home. I reckon the 'piss around and hoof it' would gain us at least 7 points now and keep us up. 40-43 points to stay up ?? I totally agree re- the set up. It's why he had a glass ceiling of ~6th. Yes we'd take yer hand off for 6th right now and rightly so, but he was never really going to challenge the big boys over an entire season by not being able to have a plan B at home when lesser sides came to park the bus while we were waiting to counter-attack. The hope; as has long been discussed in here; is that Houllier's more expansive passing style will evenutally reap rewards (without us going down in the first place!!), so that we can beat anyone in any venue. That's the plan anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_loes Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 We have a squad more than capable of a top 8 finish I dont think we do. I think the're a bunch of over rated sherry drinkers. Milner and Barry are sorely missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I think it's safe to say that we'd see a lot more from the players if they saw that the fans were right behind them. Dont disagree 1 bit. And Il be coming down for Newcastle for the 1st time this season and Il be behind them. I would never boo!! But............ should we need to to get the best out of them? Do they not get rewarded enough? At what point and Ive raised this a lot this season, do these players start taking responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops_AVFC Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 IF we manage to stay up, my preference even though it probably is too much of a stretch for us, would be Guus Hiddink. Would he leave an international job to take over us full time? Highly unlikely, but I would very much love us to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2011 But............ should we need to to get the best out of them? Do they not get rewarded enough?Even the best teams in the land benefit from support. No matter what level a team is playing at, a good home support will increase that level. No fan wants relegation, so it should follow that they do their best to avoid it. The only thing we can do is cheer our loudest so we should do it. Now after the final whistle is another matter and people are well entitled to let Houllier know their thoughts once the match is over. At what point and Ive raised this a lot this season, do these players start taking responsibility Players should be taking responsibility from match one and some of them have been. We can make their lives easier though; and that in turn might make next season easier on everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 But............ should we need to to get the best out of them? Do they not get rewarded enough?Even the best teams in the land benefit from support. No matter what level a team is playing at, a good home support will increase that level. No fan wants relegation, so it should follow that they do their best to avoid it. The only thing we can do is cheer our loudest so we should do it. Now after the final whistle is another matter and people are well entitled to let Houllier know their thoughts once the match is over. At what point and Ive raised this a lot this season, do these players start taking responsibility Players should be taking responsibility from match one and some of them have been. We can make their lives easier though; and that in turn might make next season easier on everyone! Take Stoke for example. i think their fans are worth about 8 or 9 points to them as so intimidating in a positive way that opposition players dont like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 IF we manage to stay up, my preference even though it probably is too much of a stretch for us, would be Guus Hiddink. Would he leave an international job to take over us full time? Highly unlikely, but I would very much love us to try. There's a better chance Houllier getting us top 6 this season than Hiddink coming to us. The board wouldn't even have the guts to hire his dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'd like to see we get a young and upcoming manager in, preferrably someone with some fresh ideas. Someone who is equally passionate about winning as they are about playing good, entertaining football. We really need a new rebuildning process now, based on a sustainable business model and one that incorporates the aspects of the modern game and TBH I can't see any of these old-timers achieving that, regardless of their long and prestigious resumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I think it's safe to say that we'd see a lot more from the players if they saw that the fans were right behind them. Dont disagree 1 bit. And Il be coming down for Newcastle for the 1st time this season and Il be behind them. I would never boo!! Sorry pal, but I think your perspective might be a little different had you invested hundreds into overpriced tickets, beer and travel - and ended up seeing some of the pathetic displays we've been subjected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_loes Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Players should be taking responsibility from match one and some of them have been. We can make their lives easier though; and that in turn might make next season easier on everyone! Not enough have taken responsablity and I reckon a lot of people would disagree on who has! As for making their lives easier .......well I've clapped and cheered all season to no avail! Most of them IMO have coasted, sulked and been temperamental. I also think the'ye of average ability. And before anyone says 3 top 6 finishes I'll say I want Laursen, Barry, Milner, Bouma back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 But............ should we need to to get the best out of them? Do they not get rewarded enough?Even the best teams in the land benefit from support. No matter what level a team is playing at, a good home support will increase that level. No fan wants relegation, so it should follow that they do their best to avoid it. The only thing we can do is cheer our loudest so we should do it. Now after the final whistle is another matter and people are well entitled to let Houllier know their thoughts once the match is over. At what point and Ive raised this a lot this season, do these players start taking responsibility Players should be taking responsibility from match one and some of them have been. We can make their lives easier though; and that in turn might make next season easier on everyone! I dont disagree again BOF, but I think your missing my question. I may not have been clear so Il rephrase. We go down as fans and create an atmosphere. Thats what being a fan is I suppose. Now its always nice for that atmosphere to be positive, but should (not could) fans NOT making a pleasant atmosphere make players on 50grand a week give anything other than 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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