Awol Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Are there still civilians living where they've taken over, or are we talking large, deserted towns? They currently control a population of between 6-7 million including the cities of Raqqa in central Syria and Mosul - Iraq's second city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islingtonclaret Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Bin Laden couldn't dream of the resources these guys have. Exactly what scares me Edit I'm also scared at the fact that their mentality in establishing territory is "you're with us or against us". Diplomatically, Saudis, the US and UK, Iran, Hezbollah, the Syrian army, the Free Syrian Army are all the same. Enemies. And they want to waste enemies as publically and in-humanely as possible. I see no reason why these nutters won't attempt to send people back to do whatever damage they can - a bomb is just as good as randomly chopping someones head off in the street. Edited September 3, 2014 by islingtonclaret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I know I can't comment for sure, but if I was in the position of some of these victims, I would not kneel there and just take it. I'd do all I could to denounce them and wreck their stupid little video, I would make it so they were unable to broadcast it without what they stand for being insulted. Might even try a few sneaky head-butts. Nothing to lose, I'm losing my head anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I know I can't comment for sure, but if I was in the position of some of these victims, I would not kneel there and just take it. I'd do all I could to denounce them and wreck their stupid little video, I would make it so they were unable to broadcast it without what they stand for being insulted. Might even try a few sneaky head-butts. Nothing to lose, I'm losing my head anyway. I did think that myself, but maybe they didn't think they would die? Did the guy yesterday actually witness the death of Foley? Have they been brainwashed? I can't imagine what they are going through, maybe they have been tortured and have zero hope left? I don't know. But my head tells me I'd bite the nose of the clown with the knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I really wish I had Jack Bauer skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I really wish I had Jack Bauer skills. You're telling me you haven't? I thought we were born with skills like that... what am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I admit I have had similar thoughts, but it must be largely impossible for you to really understand their thinking at the time. Worst comes to worse, you get zipped by an AK, which, if given the choice, is something I'd choose over losing my head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I imagine the people who do it tell them before hand that they're just being used to demonstrate that they are capable of kidnapping people. These people have been kidnapped for a few months, it's probably true that the kidnapped people have spoken to their kidnappers a few times, and probably think they're being used to political gain etc and wouldn't be harmed. Or, there's the fear of fighting would make it worse. There's 3/4 guys around you with guns, you try and kick off with your hands and legs tied, they could just put you down and really make you suffer.. Probably best/quicker to just bleed out. I feel horrible just thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 3, 2014 I've gone to post something similar several times and stopped because its an uncomfortable topic isn't it. But I've been surprised by the apparent acceptance of the fate of IS/ISIS victims, whether they be journalists, Syrian soldiers or members of the public. Not that I've watched many of the video's that are out there, I've not got the stomach for them frankly but I felt to some extent I have to see for my own eyes some of what is happening in order to have my own opinion on it. What was striking other than the utter barbaric nature of the events was the way the victims cowered into submission, that is no judgement on them at all far from it, none of us can comment with anything close to any understanding of what those poor people were going through. Its just you think, or at least I did/do that you would fight, try and run, something, anything in order to try and escape or even plead for your life. You can only assume these people have lost all hope or had it beaten from them or the fear of the alternative to a quick end is even greater than the fear of the end itself. Truly horrific, horrific. It is that stark loss of hope, of fight and will to try and survive that is perhaps even more chilling than the events themselves such is the evil, medieval barbarism of the IS. While I completely agree with the principled views of Snowy and the need for us to try and rise above their actions in respect of the values we seek to defend... at the same time I really hope we wipe every single IS fighter and supporter off the face of the planet as quickly and painfully as humanly possible. And yes I accept that won't solve the problems of the middle east but I'm damn sure that there is literally no other alternative to this vile stain on humanity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I've read suggestions that Sotloff's murder took place right after Foley's, but was released weeks apart. If that is the case, then its possible to captured Briton is already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The only video I have watched is one suggesting it was all faked, and I only watched that because I couldn't work out how and why some sane individual could come up with it. That video was graphic enough, I have since decided to ignore anything else and not watch the actual beheading videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I watched the one that came out years ago with the guy with the scruffy hair. I can still see those images in my head quite vividly, I've not watched anything similar since. That being said, I used to go on 4chan about 10 years ago (17 year old dickhead) and there's regularly "gore threads" with terrible GIFs/pictures of people/animals being mutilated. Remember a Syrian soilder refusing to take his cross from his neck, so a solider holds his head down with his boot whilst he casually clips his arteries... abhorrent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 What should governments like the US/UK do? Entering Iraq in the first place was a mistake and it looks worse now than it ever did under Saddam. Groups like IS are partly the product of the West's invasion. Therefore do we owe it to Iraq to get rid of this menace that has arisen? Tactical bombing will do nothing, it won't defeat them and only aggravate them further, therefore it should be a full invasion and plough through them or nothing at all. Both options seem right and wrong to me for different reasons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Just build a massive wall around it, throw propaganda that something big is going down, then send in Chuck Norris/Steven Segal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 http://mobile.news.com.au/world/africa/missing-jetliners-raise-fear-of-new-911style-attacks-after-libyan-airport-falls-to-islamic-militants/story-fnh81gzi-1227046071700 FEARS have been raised that Islamic militants have seized a dozen commercial aircraft in an attack on a Libyan airport last week. Now, according to a report, intelligence agencies are warning the jets could be used in 9/11-style attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 3, 2014 Surely they wouldn't get out of Libyan, Iraqi or Saudi airspace without being shot down? I'm assuming there aren't commercial flights currently running into or out of these countries? As for that video, is that a fighter that has been shot down or intentionally crashed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 What should governments like the US/UK do? Entering Iraq in the first place was a mistake and it looks worse now than it ever did under Saddam. Groups like IS are partly the product of the West's invasion. Therefore do we owe it to Iraq to get rid of this menace that has arisen? Tactical bombing will do nothing, it won't defeat them and only aggravate them further, therefore it should be a full invasion and plough through them or nothing at all. Both options seem right and wrong to me for different reasons though. Yes to an extent it all stems back to the 2003 invasion in do far as it destroyed the regional balance of power, but in 2007/8 the forerunners of IS had been decimated by US/UK special forces. It's the nightmare next door in Syria that created the space for IS to flourish. As co-instigators of knocking out Saddam we do have a level of responsibility to sort it out on the basis that you break it, you own it. We cannot stamp it out completely due to IS's skill in moving seamlessly from terrorist to battalion/brigade size conventional operations, but we can destroy their ability to operate in large formations through a combination of air and ground power. Personally I think we should do a combination of both but in an unconventional way. Deploy mobile battle groups into the heart of their territory supported by fast air and kill anyone and everyone carrying a weapon. Rip up their logistics and ability to resupply their front lines in Iraq and roll in behind them from the west while the Pesh/Iraqis/Iranians come from the other direction. Once their back is broken simply withdraw to avoid the peacekeeping quagmire, i.e. What we should have done in Afghan circa 2001. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Sounds easy enough. Let's do that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Sounds easy enough. Let's do that then. There's a catch. Cameron has "allegedly" said (off the record journo brief/leak) that he can't do it - even if it is the right thing - so close to an election... Tell's you all you need to know about that focus group driven slither of snake excrement and highlights the problem with all of our political leaders - they ain't. We'll definitely get involved with air strikes but it's the same 'half measures, little as he can get away with doing' political approach that saw us lose the strategic battle in Basra. When it comes down to it, none of them have the balls to actually do the right thing. At least Chamberlain was sincere... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I can't see Obama getting involved either. His whole strategy thus far has been shambolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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