Bolitics The New Condem Government

[bickster]

When will people realise Con/Lab/Lib are all as bad as each other, Flip floping between them every election hasn't worked yet and never will. Currently immigrants have more rights than the english people it's a disgrace.

You can of course back this hogwash up with some real factually based evidence

I'm voting for UKIP or no one, they're the only ones who listen to what the people want.

No they are the party that spout the kind of crap you want to hear

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

UKIP have sanitised their recent manifesto something fierce. I've posted their more 'suspect' policies here before and I should think reasonable people shouldn't be blinded by this rather convenient polishing.

Be grateful if you could re-post them please, instead of content free innuendo that amounts to "oooh, they're really rather nasty, you know..." maybe we could discuss some of these unreasonable horrors?

 

As you wish

 

From the UKIP 2012 National Manifesto

- UKIP calls for an immediate five-year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement.

- Return people found to be living illegally in the UK to their country of origin. There can be no question of an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Such amnesties merely encourage further illegal immigration.

- Repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. In future British courts will not be allowed to appeal to any international treaty or convention that overrides or sets aside the provisions of any statue passed by the UK Parliament

- End the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies

- Recognise the numerous threats to British identity and culture

- Safeguard British weights and measures (the pint, the mile, etc) which have been undermined by the EU. UKIP will also provide proper support to the Royal Mail and the Post Office as key British institutions

- reintroduce a proper Treason Act

[Chindie]

I always adore UKIP's thing for 'British weights and measures'.

 

Because, you know, whats really important to the British culture/nature, is  the arbitrary units of measurement we use.

 

It's one of those policies that flashes up in neon lights with blaring sirens 'Sun/Heil reader popularist claptrap' that should, as if you shouldn't already, make you completely suspicious of the party.

 

Other such warning signs include Nigel Farage.

[villaajax]

Why anyone would vote for Nigel Farage is...

 

[Chindie]

He's an absolutely hateful individual. You only need hear him speak for a few seconds to have your soul tainted and your brain realise that theres something wrong here. Where he in a film he'd be the one the ominous music and slimy persona would indicate to you you shouldn't trust him...

 

Anywho, this is the Condem government thread, and thankfully Nigel will have to make do with utterly pointless European Parliament elections and equally as intellectually bankrupt by-elections... I don't post here in often (despite my interest in the political world, domestic politics is yawnsome, and this thread is... trying... at times) but I have to say that I damn near pissed myself laughing at the announcement that they're ditching the UK Border Agency about a week after Nick announced his grand ideas for the organisation. If ever there was an indication that the man has all the standing of slug in Whitehall, that was it.

 

'Hello, I'm Nick Clegg, and I'm a bastard, but forget that, I've got these ideas i think will be popular, about those dirty foreigners that people only give a shit about when things are going wrong, we're going to give the UK Bord... oh, wait... the Border Agency is dead... um...  bring back hanging?'

Edited March 29, 2013 by Chindie

[Awol]

 

UKIP have sanitised their recent manifesto something fierce. I've posted their more 'suspect' policies here before and I should think reasonable people shouldn't be blinded by this rather convenient polishing.

Be grateful if you could re-post them please, instead of content free innuendo that amounts to "oooh, they're really rather nasty, you know..." maybe we could discuss some of these unreasonable horrors?

 

As you wish

 

From the UKIP 2012 National Manifesto

- UKIP calls for an immediate five-year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement.

- Return people found to be living illegally in the UK to their country of origin. There can be no question of an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Such amnesties merely encourage further illegal immigration.

- Repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. In future British courts will not be allowed to appeal to any international treaty or convention that overrides or sets aside the provisions of any statue passed by the UK Parliament

- End the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies

- Recognise the numerous threats to British identity and culture

- Safeguard British weights and measures (the pint, the mile, etc) which have been undermined by the EU. UKIP will also provide proper support to the Royal Mail and the Post Office as key British institutions

- reintroduce a proper Treason Act

As Chindie said the weights and measures stuff is parochial nonsense and the call to "recognise the numerous threats to British identity and culture" is just meaningless guff.  The rest of it is good stuff.

 

As for Farage himself, while he may be abrasive (and probably a bit of a front bottom) his analysis of the economic crisis in Europe has been consistently spot on and three steps ahead of the EU itself, as is his focus on the democratic deficit at the heart of the EU project. The other parties are now adopting his line on some issues because he's demonstrably correct.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

You think ending the active promotion of multiculturalism is a good thing? 

 

What is this perceived "threat" to British identity and culture? What identity and culture do we have aside from our multiculturalism? Little England is dead and good riddance. 

 

I live in a house with a manc, a scouser, a spaniard, a croat and an argie (who I've had many a debate with regarding the Falklands). All of whom are contributing their fair share to British society, both financially and culturally. Are they the "threat"? If not, who is? I mean one of them even dared to use the NHS the other day. Fancy that.

[Chindie]

The entire idea of a threat to a culture is nonsense.

 

Culture changes - it's a malleable evolving thing, it's inherently intangible. It's very easily arguable that part of British culture these days is, of a Saturday, to go down to the football match (Something done in that manner for about 150 years, max), come home of the evening, buy some imported beer from an off licence run by a first generation Pakistani immigrant, and then order a chicken tikka masala from the local curry house, something thats only been about since about 70s.

60 years ago that would have been notably different, but now thats just what a considerable part of this country does these days.

 

And of course, thats assuming that theres a monoculture in the UK anyway - which obviously there isn't. There are 'British staples' (the sense of humour, instance... or the stereotyped understated dour nature) but they aren't represented by everyone and never have been, and even they are open to evolving - the sense of humour has only really become a thing since mass culture became a reality, and it's adapted regularly - the Pythons in the 70s came to represent a move to the more... bizarre end of things that has spawned it's own offshoot of 'British' comedy.

 

The whole idea thats there is a culture to be protected is nonsense. Things will come into the population, some will hang about and be assimilated, others die off or remain so niche as to be ignored. British culture in 50 years will be as different to now as we would find it to the 1950s.

 

UKIP, like most conservative factions, are simply afraid of change. It's another policy they have in place because it's plays to a crowd they dearly want to have on side, like the measurements thing... except this one if slightly more nasty as it's has that sinister undertone rather more starkly.

[Awol]

You think ending the active promotion of multiculturalism is a good thing? 

Yes, absolutely. Society will find its own balance and doesn't require misguided attempts at social engineering that can end up doing more harm than good. Equality before the law is all government should worry about providing and the rest will sort itself out quite happily, as it always has. That's got nothing to do with race btw.

 

I mean one of them even dared to use the NHS the other day. Fancy that.

 

Yeah, cheers for that DDID.

[blandy]

From the UKIP 2012 National Manifesto

- UKIP calls for an immediate five-year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement.

- Return people found to be living illegally in the UK to their country of origin. There can be no question of an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Such amnesties merely encourage further illegal immigration.

- Repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. In future British courts will not be allowed to appeal to any international treaty or convention that overrides or sets aside the provisions of any statue passed by the UK Parliament

- End the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies

- Recognise the numerous threats to British identity and culture

- Safeguard British weights and measures (the pint, the mile, etc) which have been undermined by the EU. UKIP will also provide proper support to the Royal Mail and the Post Office as key British institutions

- reintroduce a proper Treason Act

As Chindie said the weights and measures stuff is parochial nonsense and the call to "recognise the numerous threats to British identity and culture" is just meaningless guff.  The rest of it is good stuff.

 

As for Farage himself, while he may be abrasive (and probably a bit of a front bottom) his analysis of the economic crisis in Europe has been consistently spot on and three steps ahead of the EU itself, as is his focus on the democratic deficit at the heart of the EU project. The other parties are now adopting his line on some issues because he's demonstrably correct.

- UKIP calls for an immediate five-year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement.stupid beyond belief. Because they're saying that someone can't come here from abroad, work here, contribute to nursing, to football, to business, to science, to technology and hope to stay here afterwards. They have to go away again. A great deal of the success we've had in the UK has been from overseas immigrants. It's just whistling to the prejudiced.

- Return people found to be living illegally in the UK to their country of origin. There can be no question of an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Such amnesties merely encourage further illegal immigration. - yeah right. more dog whistling

- Repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. In future British courts will not be allowed to appeal to any international treaty or convention that overrides or sets aside the provisions of any statue passed by the UK Parliament more bonkers, little Englander stuff. The human rights act key elements are stuff like the Right to life, Prohibition of torture, Prohibition of slavery and forced labour, the right to liberty and security, to a fair trial, to respect for private and family life, Freedom of thought, conscience and religion, Freedom of expression, Freedom of assembly and association, the right to marry, the prohibition of discrimination, Protection of property, right to education, to free elections, no death penalty except in time of war... Dreadfull isn't it.

- End the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies. little Englander racism

- Recognise the numerous threats to British identity and culture "recognise" - more dog whistling. Then what are they gonna do - eliminate them?

- Safeguard British weights and measures (the pint, the mile, etc) which have been undermined by the EU. UKIP will also provide proper support to the Royal Mail and the Post Office as key British institutions I demand to measure my journeys in furlongs and hands, not these johnny foreigner things called "kilometres" and metres. Ghastly foreigners.

- reintroduce a proper Treason Act Off with their heads!

You're right when you say that farage focuses on the democratic defecit of the EU, and it's something that's reflected across Yurp. It's a major problem for the EU. Mind you there's a democratic defecit in the UK Gov't too.

As for being demonstrably right on things, I don't think so. I think his brand of rabble rousing has appeal to a sizeable group and with the parties as they are, they are terrified of this new threat to their votes - from disillusioned working people who previously voted for any of the other parties. It paeticularly applies to the tories, and the so called blue collar folk who used to vote for them. It's not about being right, it's about appealing to people's fears. There's not much if anything "positive" about UKIP - it's all anti this, anti that, with no alteratives that are credible.

Europe - down with it.

Gay Marriage - down with it

Taxation - down with it

Immigration - down with it

Human rights - get rid

GM food - Hmmm lovely.

Fox hunting - Yes please.

They're nutters.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

You think ending the active promotion of multiculturalism is a good thing? 

Yes, absolutely. Society will find its own balance and doesn't require misguided attempts at social engineering that can end up doing more harm than good. Equality before the law is all government should worry about providing and the rest will sort itself out quite happily, as it always has. That's got nothing to do with race btw.

 

 

>I mean one of them even dared to use the NHS the other day. Fancy that.

 

Yeah, cheers for that DDID.

 

 

 

I can see your point of view here, though I do strongly disagree. Unfortunately, in a large part thanks to the media and education, poor parenting skills and a potentially lost generation, those from different cultures are often seen and singled out as the enemy. The government is, quite rightly up until now, attempting to combat that. That is a part of society "finding it's own way". Unless you're suggesting that billions are being wasted on such attempts at integration then I'm not entirely sure what the deal is?

 

I'm not sure what you're saying thanks for? It was a general point. He is in fact here on a short term visa, he's not worked a day yet. He's a journalist, a very good one may I add and I know having spent 3 weeks with the bloke he would be an asset to this country. It's my understanding he's here on a "try before you buy" visit and I hope he likes what he tries. If UKIP had their way he likely wouldn't be here at all and certainly he wouldn't be putting a drain on our services by visiting A&E with a glandular problem. 

[Awol]

1 of 2 in reply to Blandy - i hate this new quoting format!

 

 

- UKIP calls for an immediate
five-year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement.

stupid beyond belief. Because they're saying
that someone can't come here from abroad, work here, contribute to nursing, to
football, to business, to science, to technology and hope to stay here
afterwards. They have to go away again. A great deal of the success we've had
in the UK has been from overseas immigrants. It's just whistling to the
prejudiced.

Hardly any countries guarantee a right to permanent settlement once a work permit or visa has expired.  Are they all prejudiced racists? Note even UKIP are suggesting a temporary freeze, not a moratorium until the end of time..


 

]

- Return people found to be living illegally in the UK
to their country of origin. There can be no question of an amnesty for illegal
immigrants. Such amnesties merely encourage further illegal immigration.

- yeah right. more dog whistling

So you think illegal immigration is a good thing? If they are illegal then they can’t work legally, so can’t pay tax and are not contributing to broader society. In that situation people are also logically more likely to turn to crime. Amnesties do encourage more of the same and on a very basic level if you can’t secure your own borders then you can’t secure your country. Acting to do something about that is just common sense, not dog whistle politics.


 

- Repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and withdraw from the
European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. In future British
courts will not be allowed to appeal to any international treaty or convention
that overrides or sets aside the provisions of any statue passed by the UK
Parliament

more bonkers, little Englander
stuff. The human rights act key elements are stuff like the Right to life,
Prohibition of torture, Prohibition of slavery and forced labour, the right to
liberty and security, to a fair trial, to respect for private and family life,
Freedom of thought, conscience and religion, Freedom of expression, Freedom of
assembly and association, the right to marry, the prohibition of
discrimination, Protection of property, right to education, to free elections,
no death penalty except in time of war... Dreadfull isn't it.

Looked at another way the intent is clearly to make Parliament sovereign again and not subject to any authority that is not directly accountable to the British people. Prior to the UK ratifying the HRA were any of the points you raised not already addressed – right to a fair trial, prohibition of torture, prohibition of slavery etc etc? Did we live in a police state before we had the protection of Strasbourg? No, and making Parliament sovereign again wouldn’t diminish the rights of the British people one iota, but it would be a benefit.


 

- End the active promotion of the doctrine of
multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded
bodies.

little Englander racism

Had hoped you might look a bit more deeply at that one to be honest, that’s the sort of cop out less thoughtful posters would use.




 

Edited March 29, 2013 by Awol

[Awol]

2 of 2

- Recognise the numerous threats to British identity and
culture

"recognise" - more
dog whistling. Then what are they gonna do - eliminate them?

 

Agreed, this is dog toffee.

- Safeguard British weights and measures (the pint, the
mile, etc) which have been undermined by the EU. UKIP will also provide proper
support to the Royal Mail and the Post Office as key British institutions

I demand to measure my journeys in furlongs and
hands, not these johnny foreigner things called "kilometres" and
metres. Ghastly foreigners.

Again, stupid.

- reintroduce a proper Treason Act

Off with their heads!

Too right.

You're right when you say that farage focuses on the democratic
defecit of the EU, and it's something that's reflected across Yurp. It's a
major problem for the EU. Mind you there's a democratic defecit in the UK Gov't
too.

Recognising the problems in our own system isn’t a great rationale for accepting a far worse set of problems as an alternative.

As for being demonstrably right on things, I don't think so.

I do, on two massive issues: 1) The catastrophe that is the single European currency, why it wouldn’t work, what its effects would be and who would suffer as a result. 2) The gradual destruction of nation state democracy. The financial crisis has starkly illustrated the fact that this is the desired end state – the answer to every problem of course being “more Europe, more centralisation of power on Brussels”.

That’s the economy and the future of democracy in Europe he has called correctly. I don’t see another politician in the UK over the last 10 years who has managed the same – or even 50% of that!

[bickster]

HArdly the stuff of a centre right party though, more like the early draft of a neo Mein Kampf

[Awol]

HArdly the stuff of a centre right party though, more like the early draught of a neo Mein Kampf

That's deep.

[Chindie]

HArdly the stuff of a centre right party though, more like the early draft of a neo Mein Kampf

 

Hopefully it all doesn't come to a head.

[Chindie]

UKIP would definitely be in favour of it by the pint.

[snowychap]

Amnesties do encourage more of the same...

Is there any evidence to support that?

[Daniel1Avfc]

When will people realise Con/Lab/Lib are all as bad as each other, Flip floping between them every election hasn't worked yet and never will. Currently immigrants have more rights than the english people it's a disgrace. The UK doesn't need dictatorship but it does need leadership, someone with a pair of balls that will lay down rules. These posh boys that win every election will never learn the true meaning of reality. I'm voting for UKIP or no one, they're the only ones who listen to what the people want. 

 

Labour will win regardless, I can't bare to imagine that plum Ed Miliband representing my country 

You make politics in the UK sound like X Factor

The idea is to vote for policies not personalities

And when did UKIP suddenly become "centre right"? I must have missed the announcement and resultant policy shift

Labour are "centre right"

Labour is the very reason why the country is **** up in the first place. 

 

Can you not see the policy of immigrant rights come before english rights. They go to the extreme out of fear of being labelled racists. UKIP are the only people that realise we need to close our borders asap. England can't keep paying for immigrants free benefits and free hospital care, not to mention crime. 

Edited March 29, 2013 by Daniel1Avfc

[Chindie]

Common or garden ignorance, alive and well.