Rob182 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 League Cup before 4th, 3rd or 2nd. This club needs a trophy to show true progression, not a cameo appearance in an invitational tournament that lost its credibility years ago. Before 2nd or 3rd? seriously? Finishing 4th isn't just an invitation to a tournament that's lost it's credibility.. The end of season league table shows you all 20 teams in order of how good they were that season - us finishing 4th would make us the 4th best team in the league that season - i think that shows real improvement.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Those c***ts at Sky have seduced an awful lot of football fans. **** the Champions League. **** players who only want to play for you if your in the overated plastic football fest. **** all the bankers and money men who demand we as fans sacrifice everything to get on the Champions League bandwagon.Scrabbling for fourth spot aint what I watch football for. Give me real football everytime. That means great days out with your mates at Wembley. Up the Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 us finishing 4th would make us the 4th best team in the league that season - i think that shows real improvement.. Exactly. It would mean that, over a course of a full league season, we've displaced one of the traditional top four, out done Man City (despite them having unlimited transfer funds), and had a better season than candle wax face and his media darlings. Winning the Rumbelows Cup after only playing six knockout games shows nothing in terms of progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Wouldn't be too annoyed with either But if I had to pick one I'd go for 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 ^^ My point exactly! Winning the League Cup has no credability at all! You could have a lucky draw and get a poor team, you could get a team who don't care about the League Cup and put out a weak squad, you could beat one team who played bad on one day.. not much credability in that imo.. Finishing 4th shows your quality throughout a whole season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 4th. I care about the League Cup and want to win it. However you look at the competition in Spurs, Citeh and Liverpool. Will Liverpool have another season like this one? Man City will grow stronger with better players next year and it's likely Tottenham will too. We really need 4th in order to give ourselves a chance of establishing ourselves as an elite club. Wha does the League Cup do? Give us a couple days of joy, if we can get into the Champions League, then at least were closer to our ambition of becoming one of the best teams in the country because we will get more money, buy better players etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 4th attracts the quality we would need to build further as a coherent unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 League cup, I think. Its a hard choice though. If the question was 4th or FA Cup then I would go for the silverware in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 4th attracts the qualty to win trophies on a regular basis and not just one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 For me, saying Cup is reall unambitious, as 4th is the only positon (apart 1st, 2nd, 3rd) that can take us forward as a club now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Does it really? Does 4th really bring all those players? Does 4th actually bring anything other than a bit more dosh? No, 4th means a chance to play in the Champions League. We may not get through, then what? We still won't be able to pay top wages either. It'll take consistent appearances in the Champions League, more revenue coming through the door (we are still a long way behind the big four, and Tottenham when it comes to revenue through fan base etc) untill we can break our wage structure for top players. Having one or two on 90+ grand a year may be viable in the short term but you can bet your arse Randy knows better than to stick his neck out for paying higher wages when the chance still remains the team may not get through to the Champions League Group Stage. What does 4th really bring? False hopes of a new dawn. Silverware any time over the much hyped 4th place. 3rd place is much better, simply because it gives automatic qualification to the group stage which is a million miles away from a perilous qualification stage, which has tripped many teams in the passed much bigger than ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walesavfc Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 not chosing cos i want both:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 4th attracts the qualty to win trophies on a regular basis and not just one year. There is no proof of this though. Not saying the league cup brings anything other than the honours because I'm sure Leicester and Boro will be said rightly, but Everton didn't get those players finishing fourth in that season and went out first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 What does 4th really bring? False hopes of a new dawn. One team has to eventually break into the top 4.. One team, also, has to eventually stay in the top 4 and one of the current top 4 will get replaced.. Why would you prefer to win the League Cup instead of having a possibility of being the team that broke into the top 4 and stays there? It's not false hopes of a new dawn. It's ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The top 4 is completely overrated IMO. If we broke it with the squad we have this year we would need to buy far more quality to stay there. I don't understand how winning a cup is not ambitious, I want us to do as well as we can obviously but it has been far too long without sliverware for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 CED - 4th doesn't guarentee you anything, but what it means is, you have the chance to progress, the teams in the qualifying are no better than us at all. Yes you can get tricky ties and it could be all for nothing but as a club, ask O'Neill and Randy what's more important, 4th or a cup and there answer will be 4th. If we go past ONE round of qualifying, then we are there in the group stages, that is attractive. Every player wants to play in the Champions League. For example, right now, would someone like Phil Jagielka join us, even with Everton's poor form? No he wouldn't...would he join if we could offer him Champions League football? In my opinion yes, because along with international football, it's what players want to do, they want to play at the very highest level. We could attract players from anywhere really, we're already a big club who can offer good wages and pay big transfer fee's, so trying to bring in new players shouldn't be a problem. Some might point out Everton, they got 4th and didn't get through but their situation was completly different, for one, they had finished quite low the season before and there team was actually pretty poor, the likes of Beattie, Carsley, average players at the time, completly over-excelling, and also they had no money to actually bring in decent players anyway so it didn't matter too much. You look at us and our squad is filled with internationals and players who have played at a very good level, we're good enough to compete in the champions league and are as good as most teams in the group stages. What the **** does a Cup win do? Yes it's great, I'd love to win the League Cup but it doesn't offer us anything in the future, noone joins a club because they win a League Cup. How else do you expect Villa to progress? To progress, we need to start bringing in some of the very best players, and the only way to do that is Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 4th attracts the qualty to win trophies on a regular basis and not just one year. There is no proof of this though. Not saying the league cup brings anything other than the honours because I'm sure Leicester and Boro will be said rightly, but Everton didn't get those players finishing fourth in that season and went out first round. There is no proof, just look at the current top 4..... I've answered Everton in the previous post, but they were in a completly different position to what we were in, they didn't have the squad or the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Just look at the Everton team that qualified for the Champions League: (Team against Villareal) Martyn 6 — In truth he had very little to do apart from pick the ball out the net twice. Hibbert 6 — Like so many others on the team he was full of industry but wasn't able to get forward to the byline like Pistone on the other flank Pistone 7 — Having looked so careless and disinterested at times over his Everton career, Alessandro seemed re-energised and was at the heart of some of the Blues' best moments Weir 5 — Unfortunately, there times when he looked like a 34-year old defender, no more so than when he couldn't keep up with Figueroa for the first goal Yobo 6 — His usual quick-footed self but with perhaps a question mark over the goal when it was left to Beattie to challenge Josico from behind as he launched himself to score goal number 2 Neville 7 — Made an encouraging debut in the holding role with plenty of crunching tackles and a willingness to play the passing game early on until it became clear that longer balls were the order of the day Davies 7 — Busy and industrious and seemed to get better as the game went on after a fairly anonymous start Arteta 7 — No doubting his commitment or desire to be at the heart of the Blues' attempts to unlock the opposition defence along the ground and a good number of his set-pieces caused problems Cahill 8 — Probably the best player in blue on the night Kilbane 7 — Typical KK until he made way after an hour Beattie 7 — Put himself about a lot, made plenty of effort and was rewarded with a goal. In truth, he didn't have many more chances than the one he took but a nice way to start the season off even if he is still short of match fitness Subs on: Ferguson, Bent, McFadden. You can't even compare the situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 What the **** does a Cup win do? Yes it's great, I'd love to win the League Cup but it doesn't offer us anything in the future, noone joins a club because they win a League Cup. How else do you expect Villa to progress? To progress, we need to start bringing in some of the very best players, and the only way to do that is Champions League. This is where I feel football has taken a wrong turn. A cup win means (or used to mean) everthing, glory for the fans. It has been far too long since we have won anything. On an honours board, does it say 'got 4th place one season and got into the Champions League'? If we did that I'd be very happy but then would worry how we were to cope in the summer (obviously if we don't win the cup I'd love us to finish fourth but a cup win is so much more important to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 What the **** does a Cup win do? Yes it's great, I'd love to win the League Cup but it doesn't offer us anything in the future, noone joins a club because they win a League Cup. How else do you expect Villa to progress? To progress, we need to start bringing in some of the very best players, and the only way to do that is Champions League. This is where I feel football has taken a wrong turn. A cup win means (or used to mean) everthing, glory for the fans. It has been far too long since we have won anything. On an honours board, does it say 'got 4th place one season and got into the Champions League'? If we did that I'd be very happy but then would worry how we were to cope in the summer (obviously if we don't win the cup I'd love us to finish fourth but a cup win is so much more important to me). Football has probably took a wrong turn, and we've got to go with it. Like I said, winning a cup now will give us Joy for a couple days, however top 4 gives us the "CHANCE" to establish ourselves as an elite club to bring in better players and also contest in more cups, more competitively, more regularely. Personally, I'd just find it a little boring finishing 5th-8th everyyear, doing okay in one of the cups, maybe winning a cup every 2/3 years. I'd personally rather go all out for the top 4 spot, in order to try and progress as a club to much more than what we are right now, because right now we are a top 6 club, I want to be a title winning club in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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