If there was a general election tomorrow...

[snowychap]

Nick Beecroft, senior foreign exchange consultant at Saxo Bank perhaps summed up today's mood. "This morning we have witnessed what can justifiably called the beginnings of sterling's collapse," he said. "So long as the markets could harbour some hope that the next government, in only three months time, would be a fiscally prudent, business-friendly Conservative one that would act swiftly to reduce the UK deficit and borrowing mountains, the pound was able to just about hold its own against the euro (which is itself entering a possibly fatally damaging period), but today the dam burst and it could not even do that, let alone against the almighty dollar – as of now perceived as the 'best, worst' major safe-haven currency. This weekend's UK election polls predicting a Labour government, ruling over a 'hung' parliament, put paid to that dream."

Larry Elliott at 13.47pm in the Grauniad"]

Nick Beecroft, senior foreign exchange consultant at Saxo Bank perhaps summed up today's mood. "This morning we have witnessed what can justifiably called the beginnings of sterling's collapse," he said. "So long as the markets could harbour some hope that the next government, in only three months time, would be a fiscally prudent, business-friendly Conservative one that would act swiftly to reduce the UK deficit and borrowing mountains, the pound was able to just about hold its own against the euro (which is itself entering a possibly fatally damaging period), but today the dam burst and it could not even do that, let alone against the almighty dollar – as of now perceived as the 'best, worst' major safe-haven currency. This weekend's UK election polls predicting a Labour government, ruling over a 'hung' parliament, put paid to that dream."

did not

Did.

[drat01]

Cheaper exports etc helping growth.

Cheaper exports to whom, though?

It's the line that has been peddled since the pound started to struggle and it hasn't really seemed to bear fruit, yet.

Ironically, it's the line that Osborne has been trotting out for ages. :winkold:

His hope is that this increase in exports will take up the slack from cuts in public spending which would stop us sinking back in to recession. I've read a few people questioning that this would happen (especially as we would heavily rely on demand for our exports in Europe staying strong even if their economies are also struggling).

That's the point Darren - Jon is arguing (ranting even) about how Labour this and Labour that - the business people are saying it maybe good news to have weaker pound, which as you say is what Gideon has tried and often failed to explain.

Maybe the truth is that a lot of the so called experts that often get quoted and then used as "fact" are in reality nothing more than people with different agendas?

[drat01]

Did.

:notworthy:

[tonyh29]

Did.

no Sherlock Holmes required it was quite clear by the fact that it has names and quote marks it had come from a news story and i never suggested otherwise ..if snowy took the trouble to actually read my reply

I assumed snowy was referring to the first half of my post with the Spanish Archer line in it which was not lifted verbatim as suggested so snowy gets a Fail i'm afraid .. but nice try

[snowychap]

Why would you assume I was referring to something that you hadn't nicked from Larry Elliott when I said that you could at least thank him?

What next? Cribbing straight from the socialist worker website? :winkold:

[rjw63]

Is Kilroy Silk running this time?

I'd vote for him ;-)

[leviramsey]

I might be being daft but this non-dom thing, it seems a bit mad to me, they do pay taxes on earnings in this country don't they? Its just they don't pay UK tax on earnings in other countries? Isn't that the correct state of affairs, you get taxed in the country where the money is earned? Seems like thats the way it should be, or am I missing something?

That's the way it should be, IMO.

Unfortunately the USA is one of the few countries that taxes based on worldwide income. Americans who expatriate to the UK have to continue to pay US income tax (though they can effectively reduce their US tax liability to zero, as the first $86k in earned income is excluded from US tax and thanks to tax treaties, they can claim the UK income tax as a credit against their US income tax... however, if one came from Massachusetts they would continue to pay the 5% and change Massachusetts income tax on all their UK income as Massachusetts doesn't consider moving out of the country to be moving out of Massachusetts).

[leviramsey]

I disagree. It's pretty well accepted that the Tories are going to cut the arse out of public spending to get the deficit under control, with Labour the opposite is true. Ergo, the markets (rightly in my view) fear a Labour victory, be that outright or as the majority part of a coalition government.

I honestly don't think the Tories will cut enough to make any sort of difference....

[Awol]

[and he is further backed up by many experts

What do you think is shaping my views mate, I'm not pulling them out of my arse!

EDIT: Feck it Bicks, you obviously know everything so we may as well close the thread. As Tony has pointed out, I'm not making this up at all, just a little wider read than you it appears.

Not taking sides here -------- but, and you all knew a but was coming

Regardles to how widely read one is, don't your views and opinions colour what you read, both source and interpretation of content, thus defeating the argument.

I write this purely as I've read articles backing up both of your views, the choice of which I believe is down to personal politics and therefore doesn't mean the other view is wrong, my view may be wrong.

Point taken, but in terms of the blue/red argument I really don't have a dog in that fight - they are equally undeserving of our support imo, but I think the money men with the power to wreak havoc fear a red victory more than a blue one at the moment.

What Ian describes as ranting is actually genuine fear that we are heading for a national car crash of epic proportions and wonder that so many can't seem to grasp why.

I of course hoped to be proved utterly wrong.

[drat01]

I want to find out where I can get odds on Hague being the Tory leader in 18 months time. When all of the Ashcroft thing comes out and when more revelations appear about Cameron, the Mail readers etc who are already voicing a lot of concerns about Cameron and his "chums", will force him out and Hague will come back in

Jon (AWOL) the beauty of being a few hours in front means you can get the first post of the day in, eh? :-) - hope its going well out there and in the words of many a curly headed gentleman - Calm Down - :-)

[Awol]

I want to find out where I can get odds on Hague being the Tory leader in 18 months time. When all of the Ashcroft thing comes out and when more revelations appear about Cameron, the Mail readers etc who are already voicing a lot of concerns about Cameron and his "chums", will force him out and Hague will come back in

The bookies? FWIW I think that's a very good call but possibly sooner because Cameron is as convincing as a snake oil salesman and appears to be utterly without principle. Hague on the other hand is a competent man pushed forward too early in his career. Re: Ashcroft, as I understand it some of Labour's larger donors are in the same boat, ie, non dom.

Jon (AWOL) the beauty of being a few hours in front means you can get the first post of the day in, eh? :-) - hope its going well out there and in the words of many a curly headed gentleman - Calm Down - :-)

The flip side being you get the last word the day before.. Things are going fine thanks, a little warm though!

[tonyh29]

When all of the Ashcroft thing comes out

the woollies have 3 non doms as donors and labour have a few as well .. The more labour try and dig about Ashcroft they will only damage themselves ...

then we have the home secretary calling it unpatriotic to take money from non doms .. whatever next from this government , using the British flag and saying British jobs for British workers ....Oh Wait

[Gringo]

Seeing as hague has his head stuck up ashcroft's arse I can't see this being good for his long term political career if it does continue to fester and or blow up.

[Gringo]

I might be being daft but this non-dom thing, it seems a bit mad to me, they do pay taxes on earnings in this country don't they? Its just they don't pay UK tax on earnings in other countries? Isn't that the correct state of affairs, you get taxed in the country where the money is earned? Seems like thats the way it should be, or am I missing something?

How do you define where the money is earned?

Joe Bloggs billioanire sets up hedge funds in cayman islands and london, works out of london office and oversees deals and investments. All the deals are back to backed with the hedge fund in the caymans (ie LondonHedgeFund buys 100 shares in rollsroyce and then sells a contract for difference to the CaymanHedgeFund for the euivalent amount) so that all the risk and profit actually sits with the offshore fund, and so the majority of the earnings go untaxed even though they are derived from the UK.

[Risso]

I don't have a problem with non doms like Ashcroft or the Labour peers at all. As long as people are paying UK tax on their UK income, then how they organise their business affairs elsewhere in the world is entirely up to them. But then, I am particularly interested in relieving HMRC of as much money as possible (in an entirely legitimate sense).

[snowychap]

I don't have a problem with non doms like Ashcroft or the Labour peers at all.

I do. They shouldn't be legislators.

[Risso]

Why?

[Gringo]

I would think that if you are going to legislate over the lives of others the least you could do is pay taxes to the same level as the poor serfs.

[snowychap]

Why?

Partly for the reason that Gringo has mentioned.

I object to anyone being a legislator in this country who is domiciled in another country (especially if it is a purely self-interested ruse).

[Risso]

Why?

Partly for the reason that Gringo has mentioned.

I object to anyone being a legislator in this country who is domiciled in another country (especially if it is a purely self-interested ruse).

That's fair enough, but domicile is a weird thing. It basically goes off your father's domicile when you're born, and is incredibly hard to change thereafter. I know of cases where people have tried to change their domicile because they have lived away from the UK for 20 years or more, and they've still lost when they've tried to change domicile because of something trivial like visiting a relation once a year.

I'd be interested to know how Ashcroft came to be domiciled in Belize.