Premier League Spurs - Arry's gone but we still dislike them...

[SimplySpurfect]

I can understand why somebody may argue as to having Defoe over Carew or Gabby or something, but Gomes over Friedel? I can't even believe this is being debated. Friedel is consistantly brilliant every season and rarely makes any mistakes. Gomes is a keeper who's been in England for less than 2 years and was arguably the worst keeper in the league for half that time.

Gomes has conceded 29 league goals this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Gomes has made more saves than any other goalkeeper in the league this season.

Gomes went 480 minutes without conceding a goal this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Last season Gomes went 678 minutes without conceding a goal. The best record in the Premier League last season.

Last season Gomes conceded only 10 goals at home in the Premier League (considering he was "shit" for six months). The best home record in the Premier League last season.

Yeah, I can see why you think he's crap.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not starting a debate about Gomes > Friedel, just pointing out to those who can't see it that Gomes is actually one of the very best keepers in the league.

[Vojskovoda]

You do realise that 1. If it wasn't for us you wouldn't have the 2nd best defence, we've had the best defence consistently this season, it took a meltdown from us to not be the best anymore.

2. By making the most saves it shows how poor your defence is.

3. Why does it surprise me that a tiny tot fan even has the nerve to say that Gomes is better than Friedel just because he's improved from last season? When Gomes is considered one of the best goalkeepers the Premier League has ever seen and is still playing at an exceptional high-level at the age of 39 then you can come back to me and we'll talk. Right now (apart from deluded tiny tots fans) people see Gomes as an improved goalkeeper from last season who makes good reaction saves. Nothing more, nothing less.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I can understand why somebody may argue as to having Defoe over Carew or Gabby or something, but Gomes over Friedel? I can't even believe this is being debated. Friedel is consistantly brilliant every season and rarely makes any mistakes. Gomes is a keeper who's been in England for less than 2 years and was arguably the worst keeper in the league for half that time.

Gomes has conceded 29 league goals this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Gomes has made more saves than any other goalkeeper in the league this season.

Gomes went 480 minutes without conceding a goal this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Last season Gomes went 678 minutes without conceding a goal. The best record in the Premier League last season.

Last season Gomes conceded only 10 goals at home in the Premier League (considering he was "shit" for six months). The best home record in the Premier League last season.

Yeah, I can see why you think he's crap.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not starting a debate about Gomes > Friedel, just pointing out to those who can't see it that Gomes is actually one of the very best keepers in the league.

Yeah but he looks like this guy

Therefore your argument is invalid.

[SimplySpurfect]

You do realise that 1. If it wasn't for us you wouldn't have the 2nd best defence, we've had the best defence consistently this season, it took a meltdown from us to not be the best anymore.

2. By making the most saves it shows how poor your defence is.

3. Why does it surprise me that a tiny tot fan even has the nerve to say that Gomes is better than Friedel just because he's improved from last season? When Gomes is considered one of the best goalkeepers the Premier League has ever seen and is still playing at an exceptional high-level at the age of 39 then you can come back to me and we'll talk. Right now (apart from deluded tiny tots fans) people see Gomes as an improved goalkeeper from last season who makes good reaction saves. Nothing more, nothing less.

1. That's a pretty stupid point, don't you think? You had the best defence. You no longer do. Even before last weekend, Spurs still had the third best defensive record, so Villa's capitulation doesn't take anything away from that.

2. Yet they've still got the second best defensive record. In a team that is also the fourth highest scorers. Spurs play attacking, unlike Villa who have a whole team to defend for them. Spurs have the back four and Palacios, so teams are obviously going to have more shots against us. The point still remains though that Gomes saves more shots than any keeper in the league.

3. Can you read? I quite BLATANTLY said I wasn't comparing Gomes and Friedel. Seriously. I did. Go back and read it before you get all pissy about me attacking your beloved goalkeeper.

[SimplySpurfect]

I can understand why somebody may argue as to having Defoe over Carew or Gabby or something, but Gomes over Friedel? I can't even believe this is being debated. Friedel is consistantly brilliant every season and rarely makes any mistakes. Gomes is a keeper who's been in England for less than 2 years and was arguably the worst keeper in the league for half that time.

Gomes has conceded 29 league goals this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Gomes has made more saves than any other goalkeeper in the league this season.

Gomes went 480 minutes without conceding a goal this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Last season Gomes went 678 minutes without conceding a goal. The best record in the Premier League last season.

Last season Gomes conceded only 10 goals at home in the Premier League (considering he was "shit" for six months). The best home record in the Premier League last season.

Yeah, I can see why you think he's crap.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not starting a debate about Gomes > Friedel, just pointing out to those who can't see it that Gomes is actually one of the very best keepers in the league.

Yeah but he looks like this guy

Therefore your argument is invalid.

He looks more like this guy

[Vojskovoda]

NO. You genuinely think Gomes is better than Friedel though, don't you? you're mad.

btw, after reading your second answer it tells me you rely too much on Gomes because your defence isn't very good. What would happen if Gomes didn't make all those saves? To put it blunt we could have Scott Carson back in goal and our defence would still be better than tiny tots.

[OutByEaster?]

Spurs play attacking, unlike Villa who have a whole team to defend for them. Spurs have the back four and Palacios, so teams are obviously going to have more shots against us. The point still remains though that Gomes saves more shots than any keeper in the league.

Rubbish.

Villa play attacking football with the back four and Petrov defending, the idea that we just defend with the whole team is daft.

[SimplySpurfect]

NO. You genuinely think Gomes is better than Friedel though, don't you? you're mad.

btw, after reading your second answer it tells me you rely too much on Gomes because your defence isn't very good. What would happen if Gomes didn't make all those saves? To put it blunt we could have Scott Carson back in goal and our defence would still be better than tiny tots.

The goalkeeper is considered part of the defence, is he not?

So now you've gone from saying that Gomes is awful to saying that Gomes is the sole reason why Spurs have the second best defensive record in the league?

And you could replace Friedel with Carson and and your team wouldn't suffer?

By that logic, it is YOU that is saying that Gomes is better than Friedel.

Use your head, fella.

[SimplySpurfect]

Spurs play attacking, unlike Villa who have a whole team to defend for them. Spurs have the back four and Palacios, so teams are obviously going to have more shots against us. The point still remains though that Gomes saves more shots than any keeper in the league.

Rubbish.

Villa play attacking football with the back four and Petrov defending, the idea that we just defend with the whole team is daft.

Really? I've seen Villa a few times this season, twice against Spurs, and each time Villa have defended in two banks of four and then launched counter attacks with Young and Agbonlahor.

Admittedly, you watch them more, but that's just what I've seen. Especially against Spurs.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Spurs play attacking, unlike Villa who have a whole team to defend for them. Spurs have the back four and Palacios, so teams are obviously going to have more shots against us. The point still remains though that Gomes saves more shots than any keeper in the league.

Rubbish.

Villa play attacking football with the back four and Petrov defending, the idea that we just defend with the whole team is daft.

Really? I've seen Villa a few times this season, twice against Spurs, and each time Villa have defended in two banks of four and then launched counter attacks with Young and Agbonlahor.

Admittedly, you watch them more, but that's just what I've seen. Especially against Spurs.

Admittedly we are shit against Spurs but all managers have managers they don't have the better of! like Moyes, never beat O'Neill in 7 attempts either.

We're quite attacking although admittedly we don't really have a ball winner so we do tend to sit back and let teams have the ball more. I wouldn't call us a defensive team though. We just work extremely hard, too hard and you can tell, we struggle late on in almost every game and later on in seasons.

[SimplySpurfect]

Spurs play attacking, unlike Villa who have a whole team to defend for them. Spurs have the back four and Palacios, so teams are obviously going to have more shots against us. The point still remains though that Gomes saves more shots than any keeper in the league.

Rubbish.

Villa play attacking football with the back four and Petrov defending, the idea that we just defend with the whole team is daft.

Really? I've seen Villa a few times this season, twice against Spurs, and each time Villa have defended in two banks of four and then launched counter attacks with Young and Agbonlahor.

Admittedly, you watch them more, but that's just what I've seen. Especially against Spurs.

Admittedly we are shit against Spurs but all managers have managers they don't have the better of! like Moyes, never beat O'Neill in 7 attempts either.

We're quite attacking although admittedly we don't really have a ball winner so we do tend to sit back and let teams have the ball more. I wouldn't call us a defensive team though. We just work extremely hard, too hard and you can tell, we struggle late on in almost every game and later on in seasons.

Ah, I see. It's a bit like Spurs a couple years ago, before Palacios joined. Just without the "work extremely hard" part.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Spurs play attacking, unlike Villa who have a whole team to defend for them. Spurs have the back four and Palacios, so teams are obviously going to have more shots against us. The point still remains though that Gomes saves more shots than any keeper in the league.

Rubbish.

Villa play attacking football with the back four and Petrov defending, the idea that we just defend with the whole team is daft.

Really? I've seen Villa a few times this season, twice against Spurs, and each time Villa have defended in two banks of four and then launched counter attacks with Young and Agbonlahor.

Admittedly, you watch them more, but that's just what I've seen. Especially against Spurs.

Admittedly we are shit against Spurs but all managers have managers they don't have the better of! like Moyes, never beat O'Neill in 7 attempts either.

We're quite attacking although admittedly we don't really have a ball winner so we do tend to sit back and let teams have the ball more. I wouldn't call us a defensive team though. We just work extremely hard, too hard and you can tell, we struggle late on in almost every game and later on in seasons.

Ah, I see. It's a bit like Spurs a couple years ago, before Palacios joined. Just without the "work extremely hard" part.

Hencey why a few of us would like to see Reo-Coker in the team but it never happens!! we give so much in the first part of games but then usually sit back after an hour or so, so whenever we are behind in second half's, we will struggle, however if we are leading, we are very good at defending a lead.

annoying though really, i'll just point out how fustrating our manager can sometimes be.

16 games started 4-5-1 with gabby upfront on his own over this and last season, won 12, drew 4.

but we never play it. beat Arsenal away, Liverpool away, Everton away etc..all in that formation, heck even our draws, one was arse at home when we battered em. man u at home this season.

urgh.

[joey55]

NO. You genuinely think Gomes is better than Friedel though, don't you? you're mad.

btw, after reading your second answer it tells me you rely too much on Gomes because your defence isn't very good. What would happen if Gomes didn't make all those saves? To put it blunt we could have Scott Carson back in goal and our defence would still be better than tiny tots.

Something needs to quickly be addressed here. Gomes hasn't made the most saves, he saved the highest percentage of shots faced by any GK.

Villa have faced 437 shots and Spurs 364. So it isn't a case of us relying on Gomes because our defence isn't very good. As a team we have so far been harder to break down than you. But this could all change by the end of the season as it's very close and both teams have very good defenders, which is reflected it impressive goals against records. It can all change after just one game, as we saw last weekend.

It clearly isn't mad to opt for Gomes over Friedel. Gomes has saved a higher percentage of his shots and on average concedes 0.77 per game, compared with Friedals 1.04. At the end of the day it should come down to which keeper is better at preventing goals, but it is close and Friedal has more experience in the Prem, so I understand your prefference for him, but you should at least admit that it's far from mad to prefer Gomes and based on the season to date, it's a fair shout. He should be currently leading the race to be named in the PFA Team of the Year. He can't do much more than save a higher perecentage of shots than any other GK and have the lowest average goals against in the Prem.

[Brumstopdogs]

The official premier league player measurement system confirms Friedel as the 3rd top keeper in the league. Gomes does well to sneak into the top 10!

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Top10Keepers/0,,12306,00.html

As for Spurs having the 2nd best defence - you might want to consider that you still have 4 of the top 5 scoring teams in the league to play - nothing like comparing apples with oranges!

[kurtsimonw]

I can understand why somebody may argue as to having Defoe over Carew or Gabby or something, but Gomes over Friedel? I can't even believe this is being debated. Friedel is consistantly brilliant every season and rarely makes any mistakes. Gomes is a keeper who's been in England for less than 2 years and was arguably the worst keeper in the league for half that time.

Gomes has conceded 29 league goals this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Gomes has made more saves than any other goalkeeper in the league this season.

Gomes went 480 minutes without conceding a goal this season. The second best record in the Premier League.

Last season Gomes went 678 minutes without conceding a goal. The best record in the Premier League last season.

Last season Gomes conceded only 10 goals at home in the Premier League (considering he was "shit" for six months). The best home record in the Premier League last season.

Yeah, I can see why you think he's crap.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not starting a debate about Gomes > Friedel, just pointing out to those who can't see it that Gomes is actually one of the very best keepers in the league.

Oh dear.

I must admit I did forget goals conceeded had nothing to do with defenders, or the rest of the team for that matter, and was soley goalkeeping.

Using consecutive minutes is also a very, very poor arguement. That's more of a reflection on the team than the keeper. If you play a streak of games against poor sides, or sides that just don't play well on the day (factors that are not within the control of Gomes) then it's a bit irrelevant.

I don't think stats are necessary to form an opinion. If I had 3 wank shots that roll to a keeper and he saves all 3, or hit an unstoppable shot and score, while the keeper makes no other saves, would you consider the first keeper better just because he didn't conceed?

He makes some very good saves, I don't think you'll find many on here disagreeing. But he is on the whole a very average Premier League goalkeeper.

Cech, Reina, van der Sar, Friedel, Given, Hart, James are keepers I would have over him without needing to think twice. Then there's a few consistant keepers like Jussi or Schwarzer who'd certainly give him a run for his money.

As I said before, stats aren't everything. Would you Spurs fans take Jonny Evans or Wes Brown over all your CBs? I'd hazzard a guess they let in fewer goals per game than them.

[Wainy316]

Let's see some teams from the Spurs fans then.

[RichardCanning]

I reckon the Spurs fans will go with

GK Gomes

RB Corluka

CB King (woodgate if not fit)

CB Dawson

LB Bale

RM Lennon

CM Palacios

CM Modric

LM Young (Best have one token Villa player in)

CF Crouch

CF Defoe

They will undoubtedly play the 'Spurs' way which as always is exactly the same under every Spurs manager despite each manager having a different style ie Harry's long ball

[joey55]

It's tough from a Spurs fans perspective to find room for Villa players. We don't watch all of Villa's games so much of our opinion will be based on the games against us and a few others we've seen. For example, most Villa fans would play Milner in CM, but other than the draw against us, I've only seen him play 90 mins against Stoke and Arsenal. He was shit in all 3 games. There is a 7 point gap between us currently in the league table and I think by the end of the season it will be closer. But that doesn't mean we have similar strength first 11's. Our 5 best players have all missed far more playing time than yours. If Milner had missed as much football as Modric, A Young as much as Lennon, Dunne as much as Dawson, Friedal as much as Gomes or Gabby as much as Defoe, the gap between the 2 sides would most likely be be pretty big by now. So whilst looking at the table it suggests we are pretty evenly matched, I'm not sure that is the case when it comes down to our strongest XI's.

Btw, the stuff about injuries might be an interesting thing for one of you to bring up on the Villa chat forum. There are alot of threads discussing your progress and how MON is doing etc, but I haven't seen much on this topic. Surey it has to be taken into account when talking baout your progress. Compared to the teams around you, you have been incredibly lucky with injuries. Where do you think you'd be in the table if Milner had played only half the time he has?

[BOF]

So whilst looking at the table it suggests we are pretty evenly matched, I'm not sure that is the case when it comes down to our strongest XI's.

Surely the above statement doesn't stand up when you admit to not knowing Villa's strengths with "We don't watch all of Villa's games so much of our opinion will be based on the games against us and a few others we've seen"

The only objective measure of any team's strength compared to others is the league table.

As for our 'luck'. Downing missed almost the first half of the season. Cuéllar is only at RB because Luke Young had trouble early in the season. We were forced to buy Collins & Dunne because Davies got injured and Laursen retired. We were forced to buy Warnock because Bouma got injured and Shorey was shite. Gabby is only back from injury and Carew's back trouble is well documented.

We have certainly not been without injuries and squad issues. We have just dealt with them well and; the Chelsea result aside; we seem to be able to get similar levels of performance from our first 11 no matter who goes out onto the pitch.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Going by the Official Stats the team would like like this.

-----------------------Friedel--------------------------

Corluka--------Cuellar------------Dunne---------Ekotto

Lennon---------Milner----------Petrov!!---------Young

------------------Gabby------------Defoe------------

Surpised to see Petrov there, but then Modric has been dead for most of the season.