Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Chelsea

[TRO]

On 27/04/2024 at 22:21, WallisFrizz said:

As much as everyone thinks we’ve bottled it. It feels different to the other times because we didn’t deserve to be 2-0 up in the first place. It wasn’t like Brentford where we played well and had a mad 9 minutes. We were rubbish for 90 but fortunately managed to get a couple of goals. I feel relieved we got the draw tbh.

What annoys me is that we don’t seem to have the ability to cope with these physical pressing teams, we don’t learn or adapt. 

I don't think we have the options in the squad for it..... we can't bring anyone on, to help with it, because they don't exist.

sure we have Tim, but is he ready for this level?

To just have Kamara.....is a weakness in the squad IMO

[TRO]

On 27/04/2024 at 22:23, striker said:

Said in the post match thread I'd be happy with a point.

After that second half performance I'm absolutely delighted.

Complete bottle jobs again with a two goal lead.

You simply cannot disappear against quality opposition and hope to win. Villa have still not learned the lesson from Man United and Brentford.

Will state again Villa were playing so much better without Luiz. He was awful and upsets Villa's rhythm going forward.

 

I think as another poster pointed out.....he thinks he has more time on the ball in the 6 role, than he has in the 8 role.....Dougie is not a 6, he has just been deployed there, through a lack of dedicated alternatives.

I wouldn't call it bottle jobs.....I would say, our only way to win games is primarily through attack, meaning we just have to score more than the opposition......We do not have sufficient personnel to consistently hold on to leads.

The games we have won, and won well, have been through attacking prowess.....We don't win ugly, because we can't.....we don't have the players for that.

when you are aiming high, like we are, you need a broader church of player profile....I am hoping in forthcoming windows we go some way to rectifying that.

When folk say, we are down to the bare bones, through injuries, it's not the complete story for me.....I think we have been lacking defensive IQ, Particularly in midfield, for quite some time....and in some games, it shows more than others.

 

[TRO]

18 hours ago, El Segundo said:

Chelsea outplayed, outfought and outthought us for the second time at VP this year.  On the way to the game I was hoping Emery had come up with a way to deal with their intensive man to man high press, also utilised effectively by Newcastle against us. Sadly he hadn’t.

We wanted too much time on the ball and they didn’t allow it.  Our pressing was feeble by comparison.

We were at our best when we moved it quickly and first time and played through them but we only did it a few times mainly because we couldn’t get the ball off them for large chunks of the game. 

And when we did they were very effective  at the high turnovers or else we gave up possession far too easily.  We ended up resorting to a kind of hoofball in the second half. 

I have no idea how we were even one up at half time let alone two.  At around 70 minutes, at 2-1, Chelsea were so dominant that loads of people around me were saying they’d take a draw.  We were lucky to get that in the end.

That Chelsea squad has the potential to be a real force next season.  I thought their close control passing, movement and pressing were outstanding.  Very impressed with Madueke in particular.  If they can replace two or three weak links – Mudryk who was awful, and Jackson who seems to specialise in missing sitters, perhaps upgrade their left back options – they will be back in the mix.

As for our lot, Tielemans was out best midfielder and it was a blow when he had to go off.  Rogers was good in patches.

Luiz is frustrating me – seems to want to stroll around at his own pace, doesn’t chase back enough to cover and seems to leave his brain at the door when he enters the pitch.   

Diego – another one who seems to favour brainless challenges in dangerous positions.  He was absolutely dire last night.   

Olsen – how anyone is blaming him is beyond me.  Did nothing wrong as far as I could see and made a brilliant save from Palmer.  Not his fault our defence decided to give Gallagher about ten minutes to pick his spot from the edge of our box or that Luiz decided to lose possession in a dangerous place.

Such an honest and accurate rendition.

spot on.

[PaulC]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree.

For what ever reason, there was some poor individual performances.

I was strange to me that our possession stat was alarmingly low, for a home game.....Gallagher and Caicedo was allowed to dominate us.

Dougie uncharacteristically seems to be struggling to stay on the ball....his dwelling on it, makes him a target for the presser.

The foul on Carlos is a worry, because many think it wasn't......For me, it was blatant, and obvious. If that is not a foul, I don't know where the game is going, and the referee should have called it without VAR.

Chelsea for me, was by far the better side, but in my opinion, we allowed them to be....too many players "off it"

In the cold light of day, in view of the above....it was a good point.....and on the basis of such poor officiating, we was lucky to get away with a cancelled goal......what and indictment, us feeling guilty, for a legitimate call.

Maybe Chelsea should have won on the balance of play.....but not illegally, Poch needs to factor that in to his thinking.

 

I think Pete on his podcast made great sense. We conserve energy by having the ball but by having so little possession the players were knackered and could do nothing when they had it. You could question the tactics but if we had tried to press them more we probably wouid hsve got battered. 

[TRO]

20 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

It's a shame Gerrard wasted £13m on Dendoncker, we could have got a half decent one for that price.  I'm sure Unai will rectify it in the summer, just need to squeak by for a few more matches.

I agree. It wasn't a prudent signing, was it.

[TRO]

On 27/04/2024 at 23:36, Jas10 said:

Bit of an unpleasant habit of many being overly critical and not appreciative enough of our players and what they have done during this season (at least, last season was excellent too! And we destroyed teams like Newcastle and Chelsea who some are claiming we struggle or can’t play well against). I think they deserve more credit and… yeah ok… loyalty… or backing/support.

The squad is suffering with fatigue and injuries… but we keep fighting - that’s BIG.

I completely agree with this btw… Dougie is amongst our very best players… let’s not forget that, how he’s done, how good he is and can be… can’t expect everyone to be at 100% in every game… the (work)load of this season, the amount and frequency of games, even the level of competition, is new to many of these players…

Apart from the Tim bit… he doesn’t seem ready or good enough yet… but we may not have much of a choice…

Sick to death of the injuries… we need a break… 

Jas, we have had an unbelievable season.....but we all went down to support the team against Chelsea, not expecting such a passive display, from the midfielders.

Not a man in the ground, would have expected a 28-30% possession Stat......On the night, it was poor.......and to be accurate, we would not have had the season we have had playing like that..... That performance was not reflective of the season as a whole, we all know that.

Some say, they are out on their feet....but it seems to some fans, we are better, with more momentum, when we play 3 games in a week, with a 3 day rest......so I am not sure, the mitigation put forward, about energy, is accurate......it could be, but events leave me, unsure.

We can only talk about the game, when it's a "Ratings and Reactions" thread....We all know how good Dougie has been, and we can all remember, back to before Kamara arrived....when he struggled with McGinn in the pivot, in some games.

Dougie is not a dedicated no 6 imo, and certain aspects of his game is highlighted, like staying on the ball, when we have feisty opponents, happy to challenge for the ball, with conviction....Dougie wants time, and he doesn't have it against teams like Chelsea.

He is to be applauded imo, for being deployed in a role, he always gets put in to, when the DCM gets injured or suspended....The fact we only have one experienced one, is a glaring issue in my book....and the long term injury to Kamara, has highlighted the plight.

Dougie is a wonderful player, when he is played in the role he is best suited too......I cringed a bit, when I knew he was playing in that game, because I suspected, what actually happened...he was overwhelmed.

I accept, that a number of players are playing in not necessarily their best position, due to injuries.....but,  personally, I feel some are struggling with not having a quality dedicated CDM to hold things together.....and give them ( the players with guile)a platform to play from.

We can all see how Rice, has given a platform to the Arsenal creative players, to concentrate on their job and we are all well aware of the miss City feel when Rodri is out..... Guimaraes has a similar effect with Newcastle.

....We need at least one more holder in the middle. I don't mean just a stopper.....I mean a quality, midfielder, who can attack and defend with equal aplomb.

 

 

Edited April 29 by TRO

[TRO]

On 27/04/2024 at 23:38, sheepyvillian said:

That is the problem, he doesn't inspire confidence. If Emi hadn't gone off, I honestly believe we would have taken all three points. 

I am not so sure....The crucial stats were not for good reading, even before Emi's exit.....and my eye test on the night, suggested, they was gradually working their was back in to the game, without much resistance, even at us 2-0 up.... We have seen this before.

Chelsea was winning the possession battle all through the game.....and after their first goal, the inevitable was arriving.....Gallagher and Caceido had the freedom to dictate.

Look, they are entitled to an off night.....The season is not the issue, we all know it's been great....and we are hugely grateful....but I would be amazed, if that performance, (and the detail of it) does not resonate in Unai's mind, when he makes plans for the summer recruiting.

When Unai says "I  want more".....That is a euphemism alright.

 

 

[ChicagoVillan1983]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

I think you are right.....but I think we have to rely on him, a bit too much.....the fact we do, should illuminate other areas to strengthen.

I get it, it's just hard to say you have, literally, the best player in the world at GK and to not build around that. I understand it makes us massively weaker when he is not on the pitch, but I don't think the answer is to change our style of play in a manner that makes us more resilient when he is not on the pitch.

We'd be nowhere near 4th without him - NOWHERE. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

I get it, it's just hard to say you have, literally, the best player in the world at GK and to not build around that. I understand it makes us massively weaker when he is not on the pitch, but I don't think the answer is to change our style of play in a manner that makes us more resilient when he is not on the pitch.

We'd be nowhere near 4th without him - NOWHERE. 

I think our style of play is a cop out.....we are WIP.....and his focus, is just on winning, each game.

He is playing the way he does, with the personnel he's got.

He just finds a way, he thinks he can win, with our squad.....which is remarkable.

I just simply do not, buy the idea, we will concede 5O odd goals in the league, by design and accept it.......sorry, he is more savvy than that.

Do you think, the top 3 have compromised their style, by conceding only 30 odd goals all season, and being in contention with us, with our attacking haul......that will not be lost on Unai.....and that's his challenge, when he says, "I want more".

 

Edited April 29 by TRO

[tinker]

We need a better midfielder than we currently have, a player who can pass when we have the ball and compete when we don't have possession.

Kamara is that player when fit and playing alongside either Tielemans or Doug he makes a difference. 

I'm pretty sure we will be getting that player but we may have to sell a player to finance it.

[ChicagoVillan1983]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think our style of play is a cop out.....we are WIP.

He is playing the way he does, with the personnel he's got.

He just finds a way, he thinks he can win, with our squad.....which is remarkable.

I just simply do not, buy the idea, we will concede 5O odd goals in the league, by design and accept it.......sorry, he is more savvy than that.

Do you think, the top 3 have compromised their style, by conceding only 30 odd goals all season, and being in contention with us, with our attacking haul......that will not be lost on Unai.....and that's his challenge, when he says, "I want more".

 

Yep - perhaps we are addressing different points.
I am basically saying that if you have the best goalkeeper in the world, it will be difficult to adapt when he is not on the team. This is not an excuse but just an admission of reality. We can't afford to run a second-choice goalkeeper anywhere near as good (I only really see Arsenal doing that, albeit both of their keepers are far worse than Emi).

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

Yep - perhaps we are addressing different points.
I am basically saying that if you have the best goalkeeper in the world, it will be difficult to adapt when he is not on the team. This is not an excuse but just an admission of reality. We can't afford to run a second-choice goalkeeper anywhere near as good (I only really see Arsenal doing that, albeit both of their keepers are far worse than Emi).

yeah, I get that, but it also shows how we have relied on him.......In contrast, Raya at Arsenal is ahead of Emi, for clean sheets......my point is, defences play a huge part in Goal keepers stats, and Emi deserves more protection imo.

maybe that's on the agenda, for the summer.

Emi is a huge reason of why we are 4th.

[sheepyvillian]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

I am not so sure....The crucial stats were not for good reading, even before Emi's exit.....and my eye test on the night, suggested, they was gradually working their was back in to the game, without much resistance, even at us 2-0 up.... We have seen this before.

Chelsea was winning the possession battle all through the game.....and after their first goal, the inevitable was arriving.....Gallagher and Caceido had the freedom to dictate.

Look, they are entitled to an off night.....The season is not the issue, we all know it's been great....and we are hugely grateful....but I would be amazed, if that performance, (and the detail of it) does not resonate in Unai's mind, when he makes plans for the summer recruiting.

When Unai says "I  want more".....That is a euphemism alright.

 

 

As you know, "Stats" can be very misleading . I posted a comment at half  - time with the opinion, Chelsea showing that possession for possession sake means nothing. In that first - half, imo, we looked like the team more likely to score. I had no sense of panic althrough  that half. And a lot of that confidence was down to Martinez and his calmness when making decisions and that was also evident in the defence. Yet when Olsen entered the contest, that sense of calmness seemed to evaporate, even before he had touched the ball, that loss of assurance and confidence was almost palpable, hence the quietness of the crowd. I'm in no way claiming Olsen was at fault for the goals conceded, my point is, in the second half   we never had the same calmness and defensive discipline that we had in the first, and I don't believe it's just a coincidence that we lost our self  - belief when Emi went off. 

We no longer had that threat on the counter and at times Olsen was going long. That's how I saw the game. Who does the fault lie with? That's for the manager to work out. I'm not hating on Olsen, I just think he doesn't inspire confidence in the way Emi does, and, for me, that was clearly evident against Chelsea. 

 

Edited April 29 by sheepyvillian

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

As you know, "Stats" can be very misleading . I posted a comment at half  - time with the opinion that, Chelsea showing that possession for possession sake means nothing. In that first - half, imo, we looked like the team more likely to score. I had no sense of panic although that half. And a lot of that confidence was down to Martinez and his calmness when making decisions and that was also evident in the defence. Yet when Olsen entered the contest, that sense of calmness seemed to evaporate, even before he had touched the ball, that loss of assurance and confidence was almost palpable, hence the quietness of the crowd. I'm in no way claiming Olsen was at fault for the goals conceded, my point is, in the second half   we never had the same calmness and defensive discipline that we had in the first, and I don't believe it's just a coincidence that we lost our self  - belief when Emi went off. 

We no longer had that threat on the counter and at times Olsen was going long. That's how I saw the game. Who does the fault lie with? That's for the manager to work out. I'm not hating on Olsen, I just think he doesn't inspire confidence in the way Emi does, and, for me, that was clearly evident against Chelsea. 

 

I can't argue Sheepy, with all that.

I can tell you, at 2-0 up, I was still nervy.

I accept the magnitude that Emi exudes in every aspect of his play, but I thought it was coming, like another Brentford.

You are right, possession is only one aspect of a game, and sometimes it is for possessions sake, but when you haven't got the ball, you can't affect the game and the frustration builds.....and it's like boxing, the body punches, rarely knock you out, but they wear you down.....and they wore us down.

[sheepyvillian]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

I can't argue Sheepy, with all that.

I can tell you, at 2-0 up, I was still nervy.

I accept the magnitude that Emi exudes in every aspect of his play, but I thought it was coming, like another Brentford.

You are right, possession is only one aspect of a game, and sometimes it is for possessions sake, but when you haven't got the ball, you can't affect the game and the frustration builds.....and it's like boxing, the body punches, rarely knock you out, but they wear you down.....and they wore us down.

But there have been countless games where we have surrendered possession and still managed the game to our advantage. Spurs away, Arsenal at home and away, in the first - half. 

In that first - half against Chelsea, every time we hit them on the counter we looked like we would score. However, that dangerous weapon was almost non - existent in the second  - half. We became fixated on trying not to concede, to the point where we forgot about trying to get a third goal. We allowed ourselves to become overwhelmed and Chelsea sensed the fear and panic that consumed our players. Like I said, even the crowd sensed the change in our approach, and sadly, the inevitable happened. Without confidence there's no cohesion, instead of asserting ourselves, we kind of crossed our fingers and just hoped we didn't concede. I really don't think that would have happened had Emi not been replaced. He's the captain for a reason, he brings that assured presence, that sadly, Olsen doesn't. 

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

But there have been countless games where we have surrendered possession and still managed the game to our advantage. Spurs away, Arsenal at home and away, in the first - half. 

In that first - half against Chelsea, every time we hit them on the counter we looked like we would score. However, that dangerous weapon was almost non - existent in the second  - half. We became fixated on trying not to concede, to the point where we forgot about trying to get a third goal. We allowed ourselves to become overwhelmed and Chelsea sensed the fear and panic that consumed our players. Like I said, even the crowd sensed the change in our approach, and sadly, the inevitable happened. Without confidence there's no cohesion, instead of asserting ourselves, we kind of crossed our fingers and just hoped we didn't concede. I really don't think that would have happened had Emi not been replaced. He's the captain for a reason, he brings that assured presence, that sadly, Olsen doesn't. 

The top 3 have only averaged just over 2 goals per game this season......with all their fire power....Arsenal and Man city 2.4 and Liverpool with 2.2

I don't think it's reasonable to assume, we can keep scoring so freely.

I can't offer an explanation, as to why, we let them back in, but if we couldn't secure the ball, maybe it's one answer.

I ask the question, did we go defensive? by design or by necessity or did we just retreat, because we couldn't get the ball?

I think we tried not to concede, because we couldn't get the ball, to launch an attack, we effectively lost the midfield.....I do get your point, our strength is attack, and the "goals for" column supports that.....but when we couldn't get the ball, the only alternative is to keep what you already have.....but sadly, Chelsea had different ideas.

 

 

 

[sheepyvillian]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

The top 3 have only averaged just over 2 goals per game this season......with all their fire power....Arsenal and Man city 2.4 and Liverpool with 2.2

I don't think it's reasonable to assume, we can keep scoring so freely.

I can't offer an explanation, as to why, we let them back in, but if we couldn't secure the ball, maybe it's one answer.

I ask the question, did we go defensive? by design or by necessity or did we just retreat, because we couldn't get the ball?

I think we tried not to concede, because we couldn't get the ball, to launch an attack, we effectively lost the midfield.....I do get your point, our strength is attack, and the "goals for" column supports that.....but when we couldn't get the ball, the only alternative is to keep what you already have.....but sadly, Chelsea had different ideas.

 

 

 

I have given my opinion. Offensively, the contrast from the first - half to the second  - half was startling. We didn't have the same self - belief in the second  - half, hence the lack of cohesion. We allowed ourselves to become over defensive, and imo, that was a consequence of losing our captain and keeper. 

Plenty of teams have had less that 30 per cent of the possession and still managed to get the victory. It just requires defensive discipline and confidence. Unfortunately, we didn't have those qualities in the second  - half, hence the result.

That's just my take on the game as I saw it, nothing more.

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

I get it, it's just hard to say you have, literally, the best player in the world at GK and to not build around that. I understand it makes us massively weaker when he is not on the pitch, but I don't think the answer is to change our style of play in a manner that makes us more resilient when he is not on the pitch.

We'd be nowhere near 4th without him - NOWHERE. 

That's right, we didn't do in the second  - half what we did in the first. For me, that was a result of being without the calming presence of our keeper. 

[switters]

What Emi would have added 2nd half is his ability to slow it down and relieve some pressure. He's willing to keep the ball that bit longer, under pressure, wait until the pass is on before releasing.

Not sure it would changed the result ultimately. They did a good job on staying tight on Luiz and McGinn and wingers pushing high on full backs to not really allow the short options, Pau was forced to go long quite often as well and he's not one for low % hoofs normally, that was kind of forced by them.

 

[ben1505]

Saw this online ..... Tottenham have won just once in the league at Stamford Bridge in the last 34 years.... so they're probably due....