Ratings & Reactions: Luton v Villa

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said:

I watched the game. They are third bottom for a reason. It would have been criminal to have thrown that away after the first half showing. We let them back into it.

Ollie admitted it....so it's not really, up for debate.

It's not the first time, spirited opponents have, negated our superior technical ability...and this game was an epitome.

Competing, seems to be where our inconsistency lies....We was in complete control at one point...2-0 was a good point to close the game down and contain spirited opponents, with our passing and moving ability.

Edited March 3 by TRO

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

I'm just confused how we managed to score two headed goals yesterday if this is true.

That was Ollie’s third headed goal of the season (in the PL), he must be shit at them.

We scored 2 fine headers, from the best 2 headers in the team....but the deliveries, were top drawer too.

but I am talking from a defensive, point of view.

Have you not witnessed the amount of times unchallenged or poorly challenged headers have resulted in conceding.....Have you not witnessed the panic, in our box, when a high ball comes in, and the ensuing chaos.

I am referring to challenges in the air, we invariably come out second best....particularly with Mings absent.

did you not see the amount of times, second half that the long ball, was just headed back, and our players was just making token challenges.

I have already acknowledged the 2 fine headed goals, from probably the 2 best headers of the ball in the team....but there is another, 8 outfield players.

My point is.....It loses territory, and it sends a message of not competing....it also can play opponents in,in transition.

[bickster]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

but I am talking from a defensive, point of view

No you weren’t.

Quote

 

Heading the ball, anywhere on the pitch, is not our forte

Just in case you missed your original hyperbolic post

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Jas10 said:

We came back out with zero intensity and were far too lax, casual and sitting back rather than controlling the play as we did in the first half - the contrast was stark. Even Ollie stated that we relaxed too much after gaining a 2 goal lead.

It’s not the first time and the only reason we have gifted Manure 6 points when we should have won both games comfortably…

it needs sorting.

 

We have to keep focussed and maintain the right intensity & sharpness… composure & concentration in possession for a full game, not half of it.

Too many silly fouls (even if the ref was abysmal, Watkins getting rough treatment all game and no decisions his way) in dangerous areas and continually inviting pressure on us.

We’ve been doing great but we’re far from the finished article… this is all new for this set of players but they need to learn quickly and rectify this stuff, otherwise we will be punished by better teams.

We have to improve defensively on set pieces… it’s a weakness… and was exposed once again today.

I’m not overly concerned, after all we managed to grab the win (even if we made it so difficult but it’s good to see the character of this side) but we are not perfect and there are obvious areas for improvement.

The injuries don’t help either…

We keep fighting and pushing.

UTV

The most honest and balanced post on here....Bravo Jas.

is it such, a hard thing to notice?.....whatever the reasons for it.

It does surprise me, how many fans, just choose to deny it....sure it's great to win away, and 9 points in the last 3 is great, but still streaky.

Our attacking boys, are just masking over an issue we need to fix, if we want to dine at the top table. I guess that won't be until the summer.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

No you weren’t.

Just in case you missed your original hyperbolic post

I know what I meant....perhaps the wording could have been more detailed.....are you then alluding to "heading anywhere on the pitch, is our forte?".

I meant in the middle of the pitch, and in our box, but you can't honestly say, we are prolific, in scoring headed goals either....picking out the odd one or two, to challenge the point, is weak imo.

I am primarily talking about defensive headers or long balls to the front.....50/50 in midfield.....but I think you know what I mean?.....but you disagree, that's fine.

but if you choose to deem that exaggeration, that's your call.

I guess, I have never been a fan of 3-2's - 5-4's or 4-3's......I have an appreciation of the defensive side of games, which is a huge part of a football game....and when Control is bandied around, I think it plays a huge part.

I have to confess, I see clean sheets as Control....and we was heading for one first half....that's just my interpretation of it.

 

 

Edited March 3 by TRO

[Jas10]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

The most honest and balanced post on here....Bravo Jas.

is it such, a hard thing to notice?.....whatever the reasons for it.

It does surprise me, how many fans, just choose to deny it....sure it's great to win away, and 9 points in the last 3 is great, but still streaky.

Our attacking boys, are just masking over an issue we need to fix, if we want to dine at the top table. I guess that won't be until the summer.

I was happy with that first half performance, controlled and professional.

But, yet again, we came back out far too relaxed and as though the game had already been won - we’ve been punished on enough occasions to have at least been alerted to this (I’m glad Ollie spoke on it) if not learn and change… why did we continually invite pressure? Rather than continue to take hold of and control the game?

I can’t understand what McPhee is doing… surely it’s his job to make us proficient in all aspects related to set pieces? When we concede he’s straight on the iPad to take another look… how about we address the source of the problem rather than act after the errors are made? We have to defend them,  not just attack from them…

Criticism doesn’t and shouldn’t detract from the positives… we played well and showed character and quality to take the 3 points - it’s very significant but… based purely on how that second half went, it just felt like we “got away with one”… we simply invited too much repeated pressure rather than stand up and be counted… we didn’t look resilient for a while there.

Defending was powderpuff, they won 3 headers in a row on their 1st goal before the tap in… it’s not good enough and is something that will be addressed - I’m sure it will. We were weak on their 2nd goal too.

As you say, we are WIP, we aren’t perfect but we are learning and developing and there is no question that the injuries have affected us. I am desperate for the Konsa & Torres partnership to be restored and maintained. Having Carlos back should help us deal with these situations better too… our best or most competent back 4 does not include Cash (who I do have some sympathy for and who does work hard and get stuck in despite his limitations… has been better recently).

It’s not negativity (and shouldn’t be overblown or detract from the genuine reasons for positivity), it’s just pointing out where we can improve and how we can fare better… but I’m sure Unai and co have identified it and will be working on it.

Ultimately, we won and that’s great… we are facing and overcoming these challenges and this a whole new experience for this set of players - they are not used to competing at this level but the signs are encouraging…

Keep momentum and confidence going but… we simply have to erase the complacency. No game is won until that final whistle is blown - that’s the attitude and focus required to achieve our objectives. 
 

There is no reason to be negative or pessimistic… as I said, we are facing and largely overcoming the challenges before us… there are good signs of progress and the players are learning - we’re not used to this… we can achieve what we want. So long as we fix any deficiencies… but we should also acknowledge and appreciate our attributes of which there are many, we really do play some lovely stuff and can blow teams away on our day… I just wish we could steer clear of the effing injuries!!

Hope JJ is ok and let’s get Pau back… wonderful to see Ollie in such good form and oozing confidence too…

Hopefully Diaby will take a lot from another key assist… another player in form will really boost us!

UTV!

Edited March 3 by Jas10

[markavfc40]

I actually think given the amount of corners and free kicks (into the box) that we faced yesterday we defended them quite well. The two goals they did score one was a goalmouth scramble and the other was a superb ball from I think Doughty that 99% of defenses would have struggled with. 

My bigger concern yesterday was how we seemed to lack an attacking intent in the 2nd half as had we kept the same intensity we had in the first half I think we'd have grabbed another 2 or 3 and won comfortably.

Also you have to sometimes credit the opposition. They upped their game, and also deployed the tactic of going down when breathed on and had a ref more than happy to help them along with that tactic.

Bottom line though is that despite a poor second half we won and that is now 3 wins on the spin.

A lesser team after the Man Utd result 3 weeks ago, where we didn't get the result our performance deserved, could have wilted but we have shown great character in coming back to win 3 on the spin. We have also shown great character within those individual games in overcoming some very poor decisions in the Fulham game and a late rally from them, kicking on again after Forest came back, and yesterday coming again after throwing away a two goal lead and being up against a dire referee. That character really bodes well for the run in. 

Edited March 3 by markavfc40

[Jas10]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

The most honest and balanced post on here....Bravo Jas.

is it such, a hard thing to notice?.....whatever the reasons for it.

It does surprise me, how many fans, just choose to deny it....sure it's great to win away, and 9 points in the last 3 is great, but still streaky.

Our attacking boys, are just masking over an issue we need to fix, if we want to dine at the top table. I guess that won't be until the summer.

9 points in the last 3… wow… that has to be praised and appreciated tbh…

Well done boys and well done King Unai  

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree because I think it was more about Luton throwing everything at it and making it like a cup tie than us being poor. We played the same way both halves. The only difference was the way Luton played. Emery alluded to the same.  That’s why I think it showed so much character to still get the 3 points. 

UTV

I think the point is being missed here.....it's like the old chesnut....".Was we that bad, because they was that good, or was we that good, because they was that bad"

Its opinions.

If you are right, and "they threw everything at it".....why didn't they do that in the first half?. I would suggest it was because we was slick, and intense and competitive....and as Ollie admitted we came out Lax....why, I have no idea, but i do know its happened against other teams too, who was not fighting relegation.

We are fighting for Champions league, does that not count for a reason to be competitive?

I would suggest, Our second half approach, invited them back in, to have a go...and they did. Technical ability, was negated by their intensity, and willingness to engage physically, our response was half hearted tackles, which resulted in fouls and slow reactions to their running...our organisation melted away.

They mopped up nearly every, high ball, pumped in by Emi and that helped start the fight back, and the initiative shift.....second balls was being lost, and 50/50s with it.

We won in the end, and it will always be dismissed, by those who cling to the league table for solace....but remember these games, when our fortune, might not favour us, like against Man U....where similar traits, could be found.

This is not moaning....they are warning signs, that's all.....from folk, who want to be more convincing with our wins.

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

I was happy with that first half performance, controlled and professional.

But, yet again, we came back out far too relaxed and as though the game had already been won - we’ve been punished on enough occasions to have at least been alerted to this (I’m glad Ollie spoke on it) if not learn and change… why did we continually invite pressure? Rather than continue to take hold of and control the game?

I can’t understand what McPhee is doing… surely it’s his job to make us proficient in all aspects related to set pieces? When we concede he’s straight on the iPad to take another look… how about we address the source of the problem rather than act after the errors are made? We have to defend them,  not just attack from them…

Criticism doesn’t and shouldn’t detract from the positives… we played well and showed character and quality to take the 3 points - it’s very significant but… based purely on how that second half went, it just felt like we “got away with one”… we simply invited too much repeated pressure rather than stand up and be counted… we didn’t look resilient for a while there.

Defending was powderpuff, they won 3 headers in a row on their 1st goal before the tap in… it’s not good enough and is something that will be addressed - I’m sure it will. We were weak on their 2nd goal too.

As you say, we are WIP, we aren’t perfect but we are learning and developing and there is no question that the injuries have affected us. I am desperate for the Konsa & Torres partnership to be restored and maintained. Having Carlos back should help us deal with these situations better too… our best or most competent back 4 does not include Cash (who I do have some sympathy for and who does work hard and get stuck in despite his limitations… has been better recently).

It’s not negativity (and shouldn’t be overblown or detract from the genuine reasons for positivity), it’s just pointing out where we can improve and how we can fare better… but I’m sure Unai and co have identified it and will be working on it.

Ultimately, we won and that’s great… we are facing and overcoming these challenges and this a whole new experience for this set of players - they are not used to competing at this level but the signs are encouraging…

Keep momentum and confidence going but… we simply have to erase the complacency. No game is won until that final whistle is blown - that’s the attitude and focus required to achieve our objectives. 
 

There is no reason to be negative or pessimistic… as I said, we are facing and largely overcoming the challenges before us… there are good signs of progress and the players are learning - we’re not used to this… we can achieve what we want. So long as we fix any deficiencies… but we should also acknowledge and appreciate our attributes of which there are many, we really do play some lovely stuff and can blow teams away on our day… I just wish we could steer clear of the effing injuries!!

Hope JJ is ok and let’s get Pau back… wonderful to see Ollie in such good form and oozing confidence too…

Hopefully Diaby will take a lot from another key assist… another player in form will really boost us!

UTV!

Another good rendition.

We all was Jas.....everybody was happy with that first half....but we nearly threw it away, I would wager, many thought we had and relief was the top emotion on the final whistle.

I could wax lyrical, until midnight, about some of our play this season.....its been scintillating at times....but I am slow, to state the obvious, because it is repeatedly stated...where defending seems to be the necessary evil.

but some of our defending, does need attention, and that's where, I think the conversation should be open.

Its as if we have to state the obvious, in order to qualify ourselves to debate the defending, in fear of being ungrateful or unappreciative.

Ps I was over the moon with Ollies honesty in the after match interview......why, they was like that, is another debate.

 

Edited March 3 by TRO

[Jareth]

We can say what a weak team at set pieces, what a weak team at going 2-0 up, but you have to know that is exactly what Unai sees, and is why we go for 2 or 3 nil, we are lacking the beautiful forehead of mings and there is only one way to compensate.

[Jas10]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the point is being missed here.....it's like the old chesnut....".Was we that bad, because they was that good, or was we that good, because they was that bad"

Its opinions.

If you are right, and "they threw everything at it".....why didn't they do that in the first half?. I would suggest it was because we was slick, and intense and competitive....and as Ollie admitted we came out Lax....why, I have no idea, but i do know its happened against other teams too, who was not fighting relegation.

We are fighting for Champions league, does that not count for a reason to be competitive?

I would suggest, Our second half approach, invited them back in, to have a go...and they did. Technical ability, was negated by their intensity, and willingness to engage physically, our response was half hearted tackles, which resulted in fouls and slow reactions to their running...our organisation melted away.

They mopped up nearly every, high ball, pumped in by Emi and that helped start the fight back, and the initiative shift.....second balls was being lost, and 50/50s with it.

We won in the end, and it will always be dismissed, by those who cling to the league table for solace....but remember these games, when our fortune, might not favour us, like against Man U....where similar traits, could be found.

This is not moaning....they are warning signs, that's all.....from folk, who want to be more convincing with our wins.

The criticism is fair and the flaws or deficiencies are evident but…let’s be careful in not allowing it to dominate or take away from the actual positives (which outweigh and surpass the few/minimal areas for concern/improvement)… this Villa side is showing more character and determination (as well as quality) than any I have witnessed for decades…

We all know we would have wilted and lost against teams and in games like this in the past… it’s why we continue to see so much pessimism and talk or expectation of our negative traits from the past.
 

I will continue to say, forget the old Villa (shed that skin) and embrace the new, Unai’s, Villa… we are a different proposition altogether and we are still so early in our journey and progress… we have a long way to go…

Just because we are making a few mistakes (yet still managing to grind out results) doesn’t mean we will fall away and not achieve what we want - I haven’t seen many flawless and constantly brilliant sides (even the ones who have spent lavishly and to degrees we cannot match… there’s another huge positive. We are a top 4 side despite our relative minimal spend to the sides around us… we have been doing incredibly well and despite some horrific injuries to key players) that don’t have periods or games of struggle and don’t make any mistakes at all…

What we know is that Unai and his coaching team will be working harder than anyone has and will do in order to improve us (look how much we have improved already!) and to lessen the errors and deficiencies… it’s a long season, there will always be ups and downs and challenges and adversity to overcome and learn from…

Maybe asking for near perfection is too far… but, we do need and can be better at defending from set pieces… constant intensity and control is more difficult though and a bigger ask… I suppose that is something that takes a lot more time and work/practise…

Basically, let’s not expect failure or disappointment just because we aren’t flawless… and let’s not allow such things to detract from everything that is good about us and all the promise we are showing and progress we are making…

Negativity/criticism can be overblown and positivity (when there are plenty of genuine reasons for it) can be quietened or ignored too easily…

The overriding negativity after losing to Manure was far too excessive imo and much of the despondency and defeatist attitude has been destroyed or shown up… we have gone on to win 9 points in 3 games and stayed ahead of the chasing pack… that deserves praise  

Let’s not overreact, we won but we can improve. 
 

I see no reason why we should count ourselves out for CL and 4th in the table, we are in pole position… we are already dining at the top end… and who foresaw that? And so soon???

There actually aren’t many sides that are better than us… wow… all hail King Unai…

Edited March 3 by Jas10

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

9 points in the last 3… wow… that has to be praised and appreciated tbh…

Well done boys and well done King Unai  

back on 60% win ratio for the man too.

[Jas10]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

Another good rendition.

We all was Jas.....everybody was happy with that first half....but we nearly threw it away, I would wager, many thought we had and relief was the top emotion on the final whistle.

I could wax lyrical, until midnight, about some of our play this season.....its been scintillating at times....but I am slow, to state the obvious, because it is repeatedly stated...where defending seems to be the necessary evil.

but some of our defending, does need attention, and that's where, I think the conversation should be open.

Its as if we have to state the obvious, in order to qualify ourselves to debate the defending, in fear of being ungrateful or unappreciative.

Ps I was over the moon with Ollies honesty in the after match interview......why, they was like that, is another debate.

 

To repeat myself once again, we will be better once we get our better players back and in the team. A consistent and stable back 4 will be of huge benefit for us… the constant changes are challenging and a little harmful… we need some consistency and more luck with injuries and knocks…

[PaulC]

51 minutes ago, TRO said:

The most honest and balanced post on here....Bravo Jas.

is it such, a hard thing to notice?.....whatever the reasons for it.

It does surprise me, how many fans, just choose to deny it....sure it's great to win away, and 9 points in the last 3 is great, but still streaky.

Our attacking boys, are just masking over an issue we need to fix, if we want to dine at the top table. I guess that won't be until the summer.

Yes I accept we have injuries to key players but it is our achilles heal. We have done fantastic plus 11 wins now to defeats. To put that into perspective when we won the league 81 we finished +18 in 93 when we finished 2nd we finished +11..  its truly amazing how far we have come under Emery but there's always room for improvement.

[Teale's 'tache]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We need to cut out the first ball.

Not sure I agree with this. Without Mings, we don't really have the tools to go and win that first ball regularly. We don't have that Laursen/Teale type whose main joy in life is heading the ball.

However, there's more than one way to defend a ball into the box, what we can and should be doing better is, competing/nudging/putting under pressure the player that is going to win that first ball and then making damn sure we are winning the second ball, we aren't doing either of those things well enough at the moment.

I have some sympathy with the set piece coach in that he's had a constantly revolving cast at the back to work with, we aren't the biggest team, and he's been missing his main weapon in Mings for the entire season, but we do have to find a way to be more switched on for these set pieces.

[Jas10]

 

[Jas10]

 

[Jas10]

 

[TRO]

39 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I actually think given the amount of corners and free kicks (into the box) that we faced yesterday we defended them quite well. The two goals they did score one was a goalmouth scramble and the other was a superb ball from I think Doughty that 99% of defenses would have struggled with. 

My bigger concern yesterday was how we seemed to lack an attacking intent in the 2nd half as had we kept the same intensity we had in the first half I think we'd have grabbed another 2 or 3 and won comfortably.

Also you have to sometimes credit the opposition. They upped their game, and also deployed the tactic of going down when breathed on and had a ref more than happy to help them along with that tactic.

Bottom line though is that despite a poor second half we won and that is now 3 wins on the spin.

A lesser team after the Man Utd result 3 weeks ago, where we didn't get the result our performance deserved, could have wilted but we have shown great character in coming back to win 3 on the spin. We have also shown great character within those individual games in overcoming some very poor decisions in the Fulham game and a late rally from them, kicking on again after Forest came back, and yesterday coming again after throwing away a two goal lead and being up against a dire referee. That character really bodes well for the run in. 

It was reminiscent of the forest back post header, that came back in to the box, from Awoniyi.

We stopped competing for the ball Mark, that's how we stopped the attacking initiative.....but realistically, do we have to score 4 to win a game away from home?.....I think that is an ambitious ask.

I can wallow in the 3 wins on the spin and the league position, and Unai's 60% win ratio, and Ollies emergence as a top striker....I can go on.

but I also choose to talk about the things, that make us streaky, unconvincing to outsiders, and make hard work for ourselves....We also need to remind ourselves, we are 4th and them 18th, before, we dismiss, our second half performance...games are 90 odd minutes.

We have an enormous amount to be happy with...but if we want to move forward, we have to improve, what I think are easy fixes, to irritating frustrations....which are to be fair, not one offs.

I must admit Mark...I am not a fan who thinks, we can keep attacking our way out of trouble.....or just mask over poor defending....I think it needs calling out.

I am more than pleased, with that first half....but disappointed with the second half, and I don't negate my disappointment, with the notion, it was down to them, coming back, I think we played a big part in that.