Ratings & Reactions: Wolves v Villa

[TRO]

16 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Apart from the one on 46 minutes where he very nearly scored with an excellent shot on the turn to the top left hand corner of the Wolves goal. 

and The very clear penalty for me....to call it a nudge as some jokers have suggested, is beyond me......No way does Ollie contort his body & shot like that without being fouled....I am surprised, other than MOTD more hasn't been made of it.

It really is bordering on comical.....Zaniolo gets his shorts pulled and they get a yellow card....He gets his shirt pulled in the box against Mostar and nothing is said....its alarmingly inconsistent.

[TRO]

On 09/10/2023 at 18:09, DJBOB said:

I think unless you abandon your squad building principles, it's going to continue being tough against the Wolves, Crystal Palace's, and West Ham's of the world. They're built to be shit houses and the game is played out as such.

But over the course of a 38 match season, I think our style will win 3 points more consistently. This Wolves are reminiscent of the Villa of the past 20 years - who were for the most part counter-attacking, tough at the back teams. Could pull a shock result and were always 'hard to beat' but then could come up completely listless against a relegation side because they don't practice keeping the ball and attacking a low block themselves.

Additionally - while it is the manager's remit to win points, I believe you should also entertain. And while there is a sick macabre of entertainment watching Wolves and the next match, West Ham, slug it out and sit back for 75% of the game to then try and counter - I would rather gouge my eyes out than watch a whole season of that (and almost did take my eyes out under certain Villa managers who did the same thing).

Since Unai's take over, Villa are 10-2-2 against bottom half sides. 3 of those negative results are just Wolves.

I respectfully doubt that.

To take that view, I think is abandoning the dream of winning the league.....We have to be able in the future, to tackle all styles of opposition.

I accept that we are still WIP and Unai has much work to do to make us a " Team for all seasons" for the want of a better way of saying, to tackle any situation.

I don't accept that our progress will only take us as far as our style will allow....and that certain teams will always take points off us......I simply don't accept that is Unai's limitations.

I do accept that a free scoring team are likely to be deemed as entertaining.....but I am also long in the tooth to know, some teams will simply plan to stop that at any cost and as has been highlighted, we can't depend on the officials as much as we should be able to......when all fit, Man City have players to help with that as did Man U under Fergie with Roy Keane a key.

With the ambitions we have, it won't always be possible to play in a manner, we did against Brighton and Newcastle last year....swashbuckling football is great, we all want it, but it is also fanciful, to expect it, in every game.

Under the circumstances, our away draw with Wolves was testimony to a resolute team, and it was a good and well earned point, despite some of our technical prowess, being a bit wayward at times.

You cannot reach the top 4 by playing all out attacking football, or for that matter playing defensive football with no creativity......a unison has to be found.

Even Ronnie O'Sullivan has to be competent at safety play, when necessary......we with football, is just the same.

So finally, We have to have the diversity of player, to play in all these scenarios and capitalise in the air and on the floor, with any opportunities that present themselves.....we have to be more rounded, and I believe Unai will take us there.

One single style will be picked off in a duck shoot......our diversity will be key to our ambitions.

Edited October 10, 2023 by TRO

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

and The very clear penalty for me....to call it a nudge as some jokers have suggested, is beyond me......No way does Ollie contort his body & shot like that without being fouled....I am surprised, other than MOTD more hasn't been made of it.

It really is bordering on comical.....Zaniolo gets his shorts pulled and they get a yellow card....He gets his shirt pulled in the box against Mostar and nothing is said....its alarmingly inconsistent.

Yes, don’t get me started on the penalty that wasn’t! It was said on the Sky Sports show that VAR couldn’t intervene because it wasn’t a “clear and obvious error” by the on-pitch ref.

Leaves me very puzzled indeed about what might count as an obvious error under VAR. At the very least they should have made him watch it again on the monitor.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Yes, don’t get me started on the penalty that wasn’t! It was said on the Sky Sports show that VAR couldn’t intervene because it wasn’t a “clear and obvious error” by the on-pitch ref.

Leaves me very puzzled indeed about what might count as an obvious error under VAR. At the very least they should have made him watch it again on the monitor.

its a cop out.

[S-Platt]

On 10/10/2023 at 18:29, briny_ear said:

Yes, don’t get me started on the penalty that wasn’t! It was said on the Sky Sports show that VAR couldn’t intervene because it wasn’t a “clear and obvious error” by the on-pitch ref.

Leaves me very puzzled indeed about what might count as an obvious error under VAR. At the very least they should have made him watch it again on the monitor.

We all know that VAR only use its a clear and obvious error to help out Man Utd the rest of us they are not interested in!

[VillaJ100]

On 10/10/2023 at 15:32, TRO said:

I respectfully doubt that.

To take that view, I think is abandoning the dream of winning the league.....We have to be able in the future, to tackle all styles of opposition.

I accept that we are still WIP and Unai has much work to do to make us a " Team for all seasons" for the want of a better way of saying, to tackle any situation.

I don't accept that our progress will only take us as far as our style will allow....and that certain teams will always take points off us......I simply don't accept that is Unai's limitations.

I do accept that a free scoring team are likely to be deemed as entertaining.....but I am also long in the tooth to know, some teams will simply plan to stop that at any cost and as has been highlighted, we can't depend on the officials as much as we should be able to......when all fit, Man City have players to help with that as did Man U under Fergie with Roy Keane a key.

With the ambitions we have, it won't always be possible to play in a manner, we did against Brighton and Newcastle last year....swashbuckling football is great, we all want it, but it is also fanciful, to expect it, in every game.

Under the circumstances, our away draw with Wolves was testimony to a resolute team, and it was a good and well earned point, despite some of our technical prowess, being a bit wayward at times.

You cannot reach the top 4 by playing all out attacking football, or for that matter playing defensive football with no creativity......a unison has to be found.

Even Ronnie O'Sullivan has to be competent at safety play, when necessary......we with football, is just the same.

So finally, We have to have the diversity of player, to play in all these scenarios and capitalise in the air and on the floor, with any opportunities that present themselves.....we have to be more rounded, and I believe Unai will take us there.

One single style will be picked off in a duck shoot......our diversity will be key to our ambitions.

Respectfully unless FFP changes and some petrostate comes on board with unlimited funds, or Man City etc. gets banned it's incredibly unlikely we'll win the league again. Any momentum we build/serious challenges mounted one year, that following summer will see us sheared of several of our key players by the Man City's etc. We can definitely get champions league. But winning the league will take us signing some players under the radar who just happen to be like 2015 Mahrez and Kante and accidentally creating a world class team that can A rack up enough points before they're figured out and B hope basically all the usual suspects have a terrible season and win it that way which is like a once every 500 years event

Edited October 15, 2023 by VillaJ100

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

Respectfully unless FFP changes and some petrostate comes on board with unlimited funds, or Man City etc. gets banned it's incredibly unlikely we'll win the league again. Any momentum we build/serious challenges mounted one year, that following summer will see us sheared of several of our key players by the Man City's etc. We can definitely get champions league. But winning the league will take us signing some players under the radar who just happen to be like 2015 Mahrez and Kante and accidentally creating a world class team that can A rack up enough points before they're figured out and B hope basically all the usual suspects have a terrible season and win it that way which is like a once every 500 years event

I am not quite as doubtful as that....that game against Wolves, showed us our resillience is returning, and thats key to progress.

What we have done so far is phenomenal under UE....I think only Man city has accumulated more points since Unai joining....I could be wrong, but we are close.

Its a tall order, to actually win the league, no doubt....but it's possible, in time.

I think when Unai says only 10% of his work is done, gives you some idea of the way to go......Aston Villa has done it, Nottingham Forest did it, and Leicester did it, all unfancied clubs.....all had one common denominator, amongst many....... team balance.

I know the younger folk will say, that was then its harder now, could be....but that has always been rolled out from every generation.....My old pop, always said "Villa will never win the league in my lifetime" but they did......I went to Rotterdam against a star studded Munich team, we was given little chance and we still won....with Balance, workrate, resolve, and strength of will...don't understimate those things......The accumulation of the best players, don't always make the best team.

If we think we can, we can....If we think we can't, we can't.

I hope they do it in my lifetime.......................again.

UTV

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by TRO

[VillaJ100]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I am not quite as doubtful as that....that game against Wolves, showed us our resillience is returning, and thats key to progress.

What we have done so far is phenomenal under UE....I think only Man city has accumulated more points since Unai joining....I could be wrong, but we are close.

Its a tall order, to actually win the league, no doubt....but it's possible, in time.

I think when Unai says only 10% of his work is done, gives you some idea of the way to go......Aston Villa has done it, Nottingham Forest did it, and Leicester did it, all unfancied clubs.....all had one common denominator, amongst many....... team balance.

I know the younger folk will say, that was then its harder now, could be....but that has always been rolled out from every generation.....My old pop, always said "Villa will never win the league in my lifetime" but they did......I went to Rotterdam against a star studded Munich team, we was given little chance and we still won....with Balance, workrate, resolve, and strength of will...don't understimate those things......The accumulation of the best players, don't always make the best team.

If we think we can, we can....If we think we can't, we can't.

I hope they do it in my lifetime.......................again.

UTV

 

I largely agree with that however I would say league winning teams are usually beating wolves away haha. And to win the league you really need nigh on 95 points most years now. 2 points a game is amazing but even Leicester got more than that and that was a low total year, I think they got 78 points.

[onmeedson]

When you consider that villa won the league with 14 players, who were trained to run day+ night on sand hills and poor quality mud and sand pitch's and do it for a season with every game a cup final until the end, i doubt it will ever be done again. Today you see players going down with cramp all over the pitch after 70 minutes and have the luxury of many subs in a game. The marathon runners of Ron's team, just dug in and new they were there to finish the game and Tony Morley would get in any side playing now and still be running like the road runner.

[Davkaus]

17 hours ago, onmeedson said:

When you consider that villa won the league with 14 players, who were trained to run day+ night on sand hills and poor quality mud and sand pitch's and do it for a season with every game a cup final until the end, i doubt it will ever be done again. Today you see players going down with cramp all over the pitch after 70 minutes and have the luxury of many subs in a game. The marathon runners of Ron's team, just dug in and new they were there to finish the game and Tony Morley would get in any side playing now and still be running like the road runner.

Proper "back in my day" take

The other side of the coin is the players these days play far more matches, and are expected to cover far more ground per game at a far higher level of intensity.

Players are much, much more fit than they were back in the 80s. Could any 14 players do what we did then and win the league? No obviously not. But it's not because the players aren't as fit, it's because every other team is far more fit and better trained than our opponents were back then. Most of them won't be smokers or constantly on the piss either.

A player dropped into the PL from twenty years ago with the old training and nutrition would probably struggle never mind 40 years ago.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Davkaus

[onmeedson]

The brainwashing continues, there were 42 games a season back then and about 3 cup games, where as now we play a reserve side in the cups and usually go out very early. They play on carpet like pitches now and never see sand and mud to build there leg strength and grit to carry on when your leg is cramping up and i can see no difference in the ground covered now to then, probably was even greater when you only have 14 players to cover the miles over a season. Nutrition is better now because somehow they did it all on a pie and pint diet with a crafty fag to ease the stress. People have stats now which just serve to cover the modern day player and appear to give a false impression of a fit player at todays standards but put most of Ron's team in todays game and the pampered poodles could only watch the marathon runners of past teams in awe.

[TRO]

On 15/10/2023 at 15:05, VillaJ100 said:

I largely agree with that however I would say league winning teams are usually beating wolves away haha. And to win the league you really need nigh on 95 points most years now. 2 points a game is amazing but even Leicester got more than that and that was a low total year, I think they got 78 points.

I am not saying we are ready , yet.

[TRO]

On 16/10/2023 at 11:20, onmeedson said:

The brainwashing continues, there were 42 games a season back then and about 3 cup games, where as now we play a reserve side in the cups and usually go out very early. They play on carpet like pitches now and never see sand and mud to build there leg strength and grit to carry on when your leg is cramping up and i can see no difference in the ground covered now to then, probably was even greater when you only have 14 players to cover the miles over a season. Nutrition is better now because somehow they did it all on a pie and pint diet with a crafty fag to ease the stress. People have stats now which just serve to cover the modern day player and appear to give a false impression of a fit player at todays standards but put most of Ron's team in todays game and the pampered poodles could only watch the marathon runners of past teams in awe.

we won it with 14 players, that will never be done again.....squads are bigger now.

Edited October 19, 2023 by TRO