AvfcRigo82 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 hours ago, nick76 said: 1) Announce the kit launch on a different day to the sponsorship and two badges. The kit launch is a positive promotion in marketing and leads to many of your forthcoming season re the rest of your collection. While this misstep will be forgotten in a couple of weeks/months I’ve learnt in my personal career that you want a positive day with any new product launches as they can be impacted, which then has more negative response to your product and thus sales. 2) Sponsorship was a difficult one, that was always going to land badly. Whenever we’ve had to do a difficult announcement you do it when the least impact, so if possible I would’ve released the announcement at 10pm on Monday or Tuesday night. People are getting ready for bed, see it or don’t, less time for people to initially discuss and a lot of the heat is lost by the morning when people wake and then enough time to cool down enough before the positive day kit launch. 3) the double badge. My issue with this is hiding it in the kit announcement and also double badge. Again, though I will forget the decision and just talk about announcing it. I think this should’ve been done on a different day, probably before the kit launch and a fuller statement explaining it. I think hiding it in the kit announcement looks likes they wanted to hide it to not be questioned about it. It looks unprofessional imo after the work was done to get the new badge. We can all deduce that it seems they don’t like the new badge and while they would never say that they could’ve expanded more on their statement. Should have handed your CV into Villa. I get where you're coming from though mate. Hopefully given time he will prove his worth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, rodders0223 said: Bring back Purslow This guy's an absolute whopper. That's a hell of a statement when only weeks ago you were lambasting Purslow for increasing season ticket prices. I doubt you'll be saying anything of the sort about bringing Larry Limelight back after 12 months after this guy Heck has finally managed to implement his way of doing things. Edited June 23, 2023 by AvfcRigo82 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Interesting listen, found myself agreeing with much of what was said. David Michael represents us in these fan consultation meetings and asks a lot of important questions, he’s spoken with Chris Heck and shared his findings. Heck deserves a chance to show what he can do, hopefully he can “up our game” in his role and duties, despite the initial disruption or upheaval. https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/8d9a3cfe-9fbf-4fba-a5df-90859f80e19e https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/my-old-man-said-an-aston-villa-podcast/id1141719785?i=1000618150398 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 19 hours ago, rodders0223 said: Bring back Purslow This guy's an absolute whopper. It was interesting to hear David Michael (MOMS) saying that Purslow, at supporters trust meetings, seemed totally detached from issues that fans viewed as paramount, and that he seemed to be (I'm paraphrasing) resting on his laurels. Despite the public blushes of this badge situation, we should probably wait and see how it plays out. NSWE have hired Heck to apply his expertise to this area, and he's made a massive decision right out the gate, and I respect his conviction. If the final design works better across platforms and also appeals to a broad section of the fan base, great. In the meantime, Monchi can focus 100% on the football operation, instead of Purslow straddling football and commercial and perhaps not being able to give both the full attention they deserve. I like the idea of having specialists. If we can employ a set piece specialist, surely we can employ a commercial operations specialist. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Guest av1 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Not sure if this has been posted already in the kit thread. It is a discussion about the kit and badge apologies if it seems inappropriate here. But our very @NurembergVillan makes some fantastic points about our “branding” on this, and why Heck maybe wants to changes things up. It’s a really good listen, start at about 15mins in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 18 minutes ago, av1 said: Not sure if this has been posted already in the kit thread. It is a discussion about the kit and badge apologies if it seems inappropriate here. But our very @NurembergVillan makes some fantastic points about our “branding” on this, and why Heck maybe wants to changes things up. It’s a really good listen, start at about 15mins in. Yes mate, it’s been posted in the kits thread. Rob made a lot of good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jas10 said: Pretty much nails my feelings on the whole badge / kit issue. Bland, boring, shouldn't upset too many people, but just looks like it has been adapted from an off the shelf design. It sounds like the decision to half-launch the badge and play down the sponsor / sleeve sponsor were deliberate attempts to just get it out the way and allow the process to start again from scratch. I really hope that the design team are given licence to be brave - some of the designs should cause outrage (or at least heated debate) but as they say in the podcast - if it contains the one idea or concept that makes the badge stand out and feel unique then it has done its job. Same with the kit - I'd really like to see something that really sets us apart from the likes of West Ham and Burnley. Again try something bold as an idea to get some proper feedback - we might all hate it BUT again maybe they'll hit gold and find something that makes the kit unique (and please with all the recent publicity about white shorts can we ditch those as well) and obviously Villa. It sounds to me from what is said (or at times not said) that Heck gets all of this and he's going to take a very different approach. Whether we like all the ideas remains to be seen - but he's wanting to find a way to make us stand out and attract people's interest. Edited June 24, 2023 by allani 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, allani said: Pretty much nails my feelings on the whole badge / kit issue. Bland, boring, shouldn't upset too many people, but just looks like it has been adapted from an off the shelf design. It sounds like the decision to half-launch the badge and play down the sponsor / sleeve sponsor were deliberate attempts to just get it out the way and allow the process to start again from scratch. I really hope that the design team are given licence to be brave - some of the designs should cause outrage (or at least heated debate) but as they say in the podcast - if it contains the one idea or concept that makes the badge stand out and feel unique then it has done its job. Same with the kit - I'd really like to see something that really sets us apart from the likes of West Ham and Burnley. Again try something bold as an idea to get some proper feedback - we might all hate it BUT again maybe they'll hit gold and find something that makes the kit unique (and please with all the recent publicity about white shorts can we ditch those as well) and obviously Villa. It sounds to me from what is said (or at times not said) that Heck gets all of this and he's going to take a very different approach. Whether we like all the ideas remains to be seen - but he's wanting to find a way to make us stand out and attract people's interest. Agreed, it’s actually been a bit refreshing to see the comments of a few posters here, such as yourself. I haven’t felt the need to say much because it’s been covered already. I am actually feeling a bit excited and enthused about Heck’s appointment (similarly to Monchi’s, I like this division of responsibilities and to have “specialists” for specific roles and duties) and he might bring about the bold and altered approach we’ve needed, judgement will be reserved until we see some of the action he takes. I’m assuming Wes Edens was predominantly involved in research and appointment of this guy? The 76ers video was quite encouraging and a similar approach/style may fit here, I like how he looked back at the history and important/prominent figures of the past and the improved relationship he seems to have nurtured between the team and fans there… far from a cold, calculated and distanced or purely business/commercial orientated method… He could well be what we’ve needed for quite some time, will have to wait and see. There was always going to be some sort of disruption and “inconveniencing” with the changeover from Purslow and the difference in roles and set up. Maybe this is the shake up we’ve needed at the club… No hysteria and pant wetting here though… let’s give the guy a chance. I actually think it’s a bit brave or bold of him if indeed he didn’t like the way we were doing things and he has properly “taken the reins” for himself. Let’s see what he does before casting aspersions on the guy, he’s barely gotten started… Edited June 24, 2023 by Jas10 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rich192 Posted June 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2023 I’ve just watched that 45 minute video from Heck, and got to say that I was really impressed. He’s a great public speaker, and it was fascinating. I found myself agreeing with everything he was saying. I was not happy about the badge situation, but after watching that I now totally get it. I’m excited. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Agreed, it’s actually been a bit refreshing to see the comments of a few posters here, such as yourself. I haven’t felt the need to say much because it’s been covered already. I am actually feeling a bit excited and enthused about Heck’s appointment (similarly to Monchi’s, I like this division of responsibilities and to have “specialists” for specific roles and duties) and he might bring about the bold and altered approach we’ve needed, judgement will be reserved until we see some of the action he takes. I’m assuming Wes Edens was predominantly involved in research and appointment of this guy? The 76ers video was quite encouraging and a similar approach/style may fit here, I like how he looked back at the history and important/prominent figures of the past and the improved relationship he seems to have nurtured between the team and fans there… far from a cold, calculated and distanced or purely business/commercial orientated method… He could well be what we’ve needed for quite some time, will have to wait and see. There was always going to be some sort of disruption and “inconveniencing” with the changeover from Purslow and the difference in roles and set up. Maybe this is the shake up we’ve needed at the club… No hysteria and pant wetting here though… let’s give the guy a chance. I actually think it’s a bit brave or bold of him if indeed he didn’t like the way we were doing things and he has properly “taken the reins” for himself. Let’s see what he does before casting aspersions on the guy, he’s barely gotten started… Indeed - and I think that point that @NurembergVillan made on the FTLoPM podcast about this being a brave decision by Heck and how easy it would have been to just let it go, allow the re-brand to happen and then have to spend that money all over again in the future. I would imagine the WE was behind the suggestion to bring him in - although in the 76ers video Heck also talks a lot about his involvement with Nike so maybe NS was aware of him that way? I think Rob captured a lot of my thoughts on that podcast too - the kit and the badge look like they have been designed by committee and really don't stand out from our competitors. We have a French guy staying with us at the moment who said our badge looked like Chelsea and our kit looked like West Ham. Now we can argue until the ducks come home about who copied whom - but to take ownership of our brand back we need something that is unique and different - something that when people see it (even from a distance) they think oh yeah that's Aston Villa. That doesn't mean throwing everything away and coming up with something different - I'd hate us to turn up with a green and pink kit with AV as the badge. But we need to be prepared to try something bold and see what happens. I know the last couple of times I've bought a house - I had a very clear idea in my head about what I wanted and then went to somewhere that didn't really match the criteria but bang straight away I knew that I was going to buy that house. And I do feel very strongly that predominantly white shorts given everything that has been discussed about the matter and especially in light of the success of our women's team last season was a huge ****ing disaster and showed that no-one was paying attention to something that has been pretty widely discussed in the last 12 months. I am hugely encouraged by the fact that people who have spoken to Heck (even very briefly) seem to have garnered a pretty favourable impression and am sure that even if the first iteration or two aren't to everyone's taste that we are going to end up with something that says Villa as soon as you see it. And if he can tie that back into the city of Birmingham too then even better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 23 minutes ago, Rich192 said: I’ve just watched that 45 minute video from Heck, and got to say that I was really impressed. He’s a great public speaker, and it was fascinating. I found myself agreeing with everything he was saying. I was not happy about the badge situation, but after watching that I now totally get it. I’m excited. Agreed - the more that comes out, the more it becomes clear that Heck is 100% adamant that the re-brand has failed in its objective and so has pulled the plug as quickly as possible. I do also think that he's left the current team to do the launch / comms so that he can see what he is dealing with and what needs changing. I'm pretty sure that he hasn't liked what he has seen. I am also pretty sure that there will be some pretty big changes being made pretty quickly - even if that is just about attitude rather than actual personnel changes. I do think we've done some good stuff in that field recently - the Duran signing video with JPA (for example) was awesome. So maybe (as he alluded to in the 76ers video) it is just about encouraging people to be daring, loud, disruptive (to convention) and to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, allani said: Indeed - and I think that point that @NurembergVillan made on the FTLoPM podcast about this being a brave decision by Heck and how easy it would have been to just let it go, allow the re-brand to happen and then have to spend that money all over again in the future. I would imagine the WE was behind the suggestion to bring him in - although in the 76ers video Heck also talks a lot about his involvement with Nike so maybe NS was aware of him that way? I think Rob captured a lot of my thoughts on that podcast too - the kit and the badge look like they have been designed by committee and really don't stand out from our competitors. We have a French guy staying with us at the moment who said our badge looked like Chelsea and our kit looked like West Ham. Now we can argue until the ducks come home about who copied whom - but to take ownership of our brand back we need something that is unique and different - something that when people see it (even from a distance) they think oh yeah that's Aston Villa. That doesn't mean throwing everything away and coming up with something different - I'd hate us to turn up with a green and pink kit with AV as the badge. But we need to be prepared to try something bold and see what happens. I know the last couple of times I've bought a house - I had a very clear idea in my head about what I wanted and then went to somewhere that didn't really match the criteria but bang straight away I knew that I was going to buy that house. And I do feel very strongly that predominantly white shorts given everything that has been discussed about the matter and especially in light of the success of our women's team last season was a huge ****ing disaster and showed that no-one was paying attention to something that has been pretty widely discussed in the last 12 months. I am hugely encouraged by the fact that people who have spoken to Heck (even very briefly) seem to have garnered a pretty favourable impression and am sure that even if the first iteration or two aren't to everyone's taste that we are going to end up with something that says Villa as soon as you see it. And if he can tie that back into the city of Birmingham too then even better. Yep, again I agree. Rob speaks a lot of sense and has an admirable passion for the club, I’d like to see what he would produce if ever given the opportunity not sure how keen he would be though, as it’s quite a challenging task as he explained I loved what he said in the fan consultation or crest consultation meeting. We need to have resonance, identity and a uniqueness about us. We should stand out for what we are… He managed to calm me down after explaining the initial image of the shirt was just a 3d render and not the actual/finalised product. I was disgusted by it at first sight What a blunder sticking the old lion, facing the other way, on the back of it too! Nasty shade and nasty bus seat pattern, but it’s not actually as bad as on that image “in the flesh”. It’s just a matter of opinion though and not a massive deal but it’s nice when we get things right and produce things with “quality”, it shows a bit of class and represents us well… It doesn’t look quite as bad on players and fans but I still think it’s one of if not the worst designs since we returned to PL. Heck’s emphasis on “quality” excites me too, it’s all been downhill since that Luke kit. I expect much better in future. I don’t believe he’s going to be too drastic… I don’t think he’d change anything that’s fundamental about us such as claret and blue (we could well “own proper claret” like the 76ers owned blue as their colour, we’ve always had the more vibrant and accurate version. None of this purple shite or dark, drab nonsense a la West Ham and Burnley), the lion etc. etc. if anything, I’m assuming he will try to streamline and simplify these things which is pretty much what he did with the 76ers. He did draw on elements of the past for kit and badge design too, which should please and reassure many of us. It’s good to have someone who should be an expert in his field taking charge really… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, allani said: Agreed - the more that comes out, the more it becomes clear that Heck is 100% adamant that the re-brand has failed in its objective and so has pulled the plug as quickly as possible. I do also think that he's left the current team to do the launch / comms so that he can see what he is dealing with and what needs changing. I'm pretty sure that he hasn't liked what he has seen. I am also pretty sure that there will be some pretty big changes being made pretty quickly - even if that is just about attitude rather than actual personnel changes. I do think we've done some good stuff in that field recently - the Duran signing video with JPA (for example) was awesome. So maybe (as he alluded to in the 76ers video) it is just about encouraging people to be daring, loud, disruptive (to convention) and to have fun. If he thinks he can do a lot better, I’m all for it. I like the quote from the podcast too, something along the lines of “I have to make us win”. We should maximise our potential and our opportunities, we have a hell of a lot of work to do in a commercial sense, to make ourselves more profitable and appealing… Not settling for small measures is what I like, let’s do the job properly! He just gives me the impression of someone who walks the walk, not just talks the talk. Conviction and decisiveness - it’s what we need. But again, we will have to see. None of us really know anything about him or what he’s going to do here Hoping for the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Yep, again I agree. Rob speaks a lot of sense and has an admirable passion for the club, I’d like to see what he would produce if ever given the opportunity not sure how keen he would be though, as it’s quite a challenging task as he explained I loved what he said in the fan consultation or crest consultation meeting. We need to have resonance, identity and a uniqueness about us. We should stand out for what we are… He managed to calm me down after explaining the initial image of the shirt was just a 3d render and not the actual/finalised product. I was disgusted by it at first sight What a blunder sticking the old lion, facing the other way, on the back of it too! Nasty shade and nasty bus seat pattern, but it’s not actually as bad as on that image “in the flesh”. It’s just a matter of opinion though and not a massive deal but it’s nice when we get things right and produce things with “quality”, it shows a bit of class and represents us well… It doesn’t look quite as bad on players and fans but I still think it’s one of if not the worst designs since we returned to PL. Heck’s emphasis on “quality” excites me too, it’s all been downhill since that Luke kit. I expect much better in future. I don’t believe he’s going to be too drastic… I don’t think he’d change anything that’s fundamental about us such as claret and blue (we could well “own proper claret” like the 76ers owned blue as their colour, we’ve always had the more vibrant and accurate version. None of this purple shite or dark, drab nonsense a la West Ham and Burnley), the lion etc. etc. if anything, I’m assuming he will try to streamline and simplify these things which is pretty much what he did with the 76ers. He did draw on elements of the past for kit and badge design too, which should please and reassure many of us. It’s good to have someone who should be an expert in his field taking charge really… The 76ers video has really excited me. I love the way he took the history of the team, the history of the city and really added that to be front and centre of the brand. We can absolutely be "unique" whilst sticking with claret and blue as our base colours. We can make the Villa lion unique. I think Rob (but I have seen a lot of videos today so it might not have been him) mentioned about Liverpool's branding with the liver birds on the shirt but the gates to Stanley Park elsewhere as working. I do think that the "Villans" nickname is something that could work really well globally - it really is one of the best nicknames you could have for a sporting team - so I am excited to see whether anything is done with that. And just bringing the whole club history back to life is exciting too - the whole idea of walking around Villa Park with a young family member maybe attending their first club and them seeing names like McGregor, Waring, Walker, Hampton, McParland, McGrath, etc and asking who they are and what they did is spine-tingling stuff. There's just so much potential here that is ripe to be exploited and yet we've not been very good at doing so - with the exception of 1982. History. Quality. Authenticity. Just nails it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, allani said: The 76ers video has really excited me. I love the way he took the history of the team, the history of the city and really added that to be front and centre of the brand. We can absolutely be "unique" whilst sticking with claret and blue as our base colours. We can make the Villa lion unique. I think Rob (but I have seen a lot of videos today so it might not have been him) mentioned about Liverpool's branding with the liver birds on the shirt but the gates to Stanley Park elsewhere as working. I do think that the "Villans" nickname is something that could work really well globally - it really is one of the best nicknames you could have for a sporting team - so I am excited to see whether anything is done with that. And just bringing the whole club history back to life is exciting too - the whole idea of walking around Villa Park with a young family member maybe attending their first club and them seeing names like McGregor, Waring, Walker, Hampton, McParland, McGrath, etc and asking who they are and what they did is spine-tingling stuff. There's just so much potential here that is ripe to be exploited and yet we've not been very good at doing so - with the exception of 1982. History. Quality. Authenticity. Just nails it. I think he may well further emphasise on our heroes of the past and European cup win… dunno if he’ll put statues in place I expect and look forward to a lot of fan engagement too… You’re speaking my language 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 22 minutes ago, Jas10 said: If he thinks he can do a lot better, I’m all for it. I like the quote from the podcast too, something along the lines of “I have to make us win”. We should maximise our potential and our opportunities, we have a hell of a lot of work to do in a commercial sense, to make ourselves more profitable and appealing… Not settling for small measures is what I like, let’s do the job properly! He just gives me the impression of someone who walks the walk, not just talks the talk. Conviction and decisiveness - it’s what we need. But again, we will have to see. None of us really know anything about him or what he’s going to do here Hoping for the best. 100% agree. In terms of the bit in bold - the off-field success at the 76ers I think gives us some clues about not just what he will try and do but also how good he has been at it before. I also like that in the video he called out a couple of things that they didn't get right and also where they lucked out. But what I liked is that he didn't mind getting something wrong (and then fixing it) because they were trying something different (a bit like Bazball - to win you have to be prepared to lose the odd game). I also liked how he and his team spotted a couple of things that they hadn't come up with but that worked and so they found a way of encouraging / exploiting that without taking ownership of it. His ideas might not work here - but a bit like appointing an elite manager or an elite sporting manager, it feels like we're trying to "go big" and take the bold route rather than playing it nice and safe and sticking to what we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I think he may well further emphasise on our heroes of the past and European cup win… dunno if he’ll put statues in place I expect and look forward to a lot of fan engagement too… You’re speaking my language Renaming a certain stand would go a hell of a long way... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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