Next Aston Villa manager

[GingerCollins29]

Was purslow at plop with rodgers??

[duke313]

3 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Was purslow at plop with rodgers??

No, he had already left by the time they hired Rodgers.

[Villan_of_oz]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

But these Owners with all the credibility to spare.....Hired SG...They must have known what they was getting a rookie manager....but maybe they are willing to give him development time, like we do players.

You can ignore History all you like......my point is there is nothing to suggest, anything will change.....In our History only 19 managers out of 33 managed to exceed 40% win percentage.....and its clear to see the better ones was in batches, suggesting they had the better players, in that period.

What you are saying is we are expecting to defy everything we have done in our History.....Thats fine, but to expect a youthful manager to do it, in c 35 games is pie in the sky....and our transfer business in the summer was questionable, in its execution.

Its another argument, to say, we should have signed experience....but we have done that in the past, to no great avail.

The problems lie on the pitch, for me.....and I agree, that SG has to fix them....managers are responsible for all things football, but they have to have the players to do that.....right now, he has too many, not showing much form.

Ollie, is like a kettle with a hole in it, not fit forpurpose.....and others could be deemed the same....I looke at Bowen and Mbueno and compare with Bailey......far more aggression from the former, and at a far cheaper price.

If you examine what we have done, is keep sacking managers, to no benefit.

You say the past is the past.....but all those decision makers, thought they was doing the right thing, supported in most cases, by the fan base......There are no guarantee's a sacking will increase our ability to win games or turn misfiring players in to Europa league contenders.

My view it is the players, where the fault lies, particularly the front 6 make up.....but I accept, its the managers job to get the best out of them, when he can't.....we have to look at surgery.

I look at other teams like Brentford and Brighton and they have more intensity, urgency, physicality in the front 6, and our clear willingness to run, without the ball and with it.....I am not saying the manager has no part to play in that, but sometimes you can only take the horse to the water, you can't necessarily make it drink.....both clubs don't spend like we do either, but they buy EFFECTIVE players.

 

 

 

I totally agree with you about the lack of intensity from our players, and that's not something that has only happened under SG.

I also agree with you that our recruiting is questionable, Ings imo doesn't fit in with us and I don't really rate Bailey, as he lacks commitment and determination.

However, for me, SG has handled too many players poorly and tries to shoehorn players into formation, instead of adapting to the players he has.

Our front 6 are definitely letting us down, how much is on the players, and how much is on SG who knows exactly.

All I know is this manager gives me no hope that he will turn things around, the football is absolutely dire, the feeling I get (however uneducated my opinion is) is that we are heading towards a relegation battle.

I may be wrong, I have been plenty of times before, but I firmly believe he needs to go and quickly, for whatever another manager may offer it will be more than what is being offered now.

......

Now we'll go and beat Chelsea 2-0 and I will look a right melon...

But if we lose and it's another poor performance, well in my opinion we have wasted another match.

How many do we waste, for the sake of not sacking another manager, before we are right in the sewer.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I totally agree with you about the lack of intensity from our players, and that's not something that has only happened under SG.

I also agree with you that our recruiting is questionable, Ings imo doesn't fit in with us and I don't really rate Bailey, as he lacks commitment and determination.

However, for me, SG has handled too many players poorly and tries to shoehorn players into formation, instead of adapting to the players he has.

Our front 6 are definitely letting us down, how much is on the players, and how much is on SG who knows exactly.

All I know is this manager gives me no hope that he will turn things around, the football is absolutely dire, the feeling I get (however uneducated my opinion is) is that we are heading towards a relegation battle.

I may be wrong, I have been plenty of times before, but I firmly believe he needs to go and quickly, for whatever another manager may offer it will be more than what is being offered now.

......

Now we'll go and beat Chelsea 2-0 and I will look a right melon...

But if we lose and it's another poor performance, well in my opinion we have wasted another match.

How many do we waste, for the sake of not sacking another manager, before we are right in the sewer.

 

Oz....your opinion is as valid as the next mans....No one has a monopoly, on whats wrong, we are all voicing opinions, and we all want whats best for the club.

That Highlighted line, is the 64 million dollar question, but the manager has to be responsible for it, and he knows that, whether its directly or indirectly his fault the buck stops with him.

What history tells me is keep running away from the challenges, breeds a weak mentality.... we have to stop and fight back, and SG has to find a way to do it.

If we keep changing managers, players get it in their heads to, they haven't got to fight, it becomes a cop out, a respite to chew up time, until the next crises.

Someone has to say, only you, can get us out of this.....The cheque book is closed, no easy exits....Dougie has just committed, now they all can, with the kind of performances this club deserves.

I feel, I can see whats wrong, but I can't prove it....its just my time watching Villa and other teams, that suggests things to me.....I am not convinced its just soley coaching, but not ruling it out either.

I feel, I see teams, with not as much technical talent as us, but much more intensity and work rate, and I feel it negates our talent.

I feel we have gone out and bought talent, without the application, to go with it.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

7 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

The hope is that we are no longer owned by Doug Ellis, Randy Lerner or Tony Xia. Yes our current owners, or perhaps their CEO, has made a mistake with the appointment of Gerrard, but we are now a modern, progressive and well financed club with ambitious owners. Perfect no but to say we won’t appoint a good manager because the previous ownerships were somewhere between a corner shop owner, a half interested rich man spending daddies money and a total fraud who had less money than NSWE carry about as lose change is nonsensical. 

Doug Ellis, was not in charge, for our whole history... and despite me being glad he went.....it hasn't really got any better on the pitch either.

We are no more certain of getting it right this time as last time.......There are no silver bullets.

If we get rid, it will cost the club, in terms of finance, development time, and players who think they have another chance to put in questionable performances, until they get found out.

I am not convinced Dave, either way to be fair......Was it Graham Taylor who said....."in times of difficulty keep your nerve, and fight through adversity" or words to that degree.

The football has been rancid in the last few games, but I think claims are being made, that are unsubstantiated.....None of us are privvy to what goes on at BMH...yet we talk like we do.

Edited October 15, 2022 by TRO

[Villan_of_oz]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Oz....your opinion is as valid as the next mans....No one has a monopoly, on whats wrong, we are all voicing opinions, and we all want whats best for the club.

That Highlighted line, is the 64 million dollar question, but the manager has to be responsible for it, and he knows that, whether its directly or indirectly his fault the buck stops with him.

What history tells me is keep running away from the challenges, breeds a weak mentality.... we have to stop and fight back, and SG has to find a way to do it.

If we keep changing managers, players get it in their heads to, they haven't got to fight, it becomes a cop out, a respite to chew up time, until the next crises.

Someone has to say, only you, can get us out of this.....The cheque book is closed, no easy exits....Dougie has just committed, now they all can, with the kind of performances this club deserves.

I feel, I can see whats wrong, but I can't prove it....its just my time watching Villa and other teams, that suggests things too me.....I am not convinced its just soley coaching, but not ruling it out either.

I feel, I see teams, with not as much technical talent as us, but much more intensity and work rate, and I feel it negates our talent.

I feel we have gone out and bought talent, without the application, to go with it.

 

I am so sick of teams out grafting us, it has been a problem of ours for years. I don't pretend to thinks that is all SGs fault, but he has to get more out of the tools he has. 

 

[TRO]

6 hours ago, DCJonah said:

You didn't want to sack Bruce. What happened after? 

You really do back the odd choices. 

Not until, the writing was on the wall.....I don't see the benefit as strongly as some do, of continually, culling managers.....i noticed,  how the most succesful clubs have have the least turn around of managers too.

And interestingly, Bruce still has the best win percentage of any manager since Graham Taylor Mk 1.....Albeit in the Championship, buy hey ho.

Odd choices, from your perspective.

I haven't read any proposal from you , as to who can shape this squad in to a winning, fully functioning, european bound unit.....my guess would be, a pre-requisite of a huge transfer kitty, would be high on the agenda.

I am all ears, and would give it the due consideration it deserves.

Fire away.

 

[DaveAV1]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Doug Ellis, was not in charge, for our whole history.

We are no more certain of getting it right this time as last time.......There are no silver bullets.

If we get rid, it will cost the club, in terms of finance, development time, and players who think they have another chance to put in questionable performances, until they get found out.

I am not convinced Dave, either way to be fair......Was it Graham Taylor who said....."in times of difficulty keep your nerve, and fight through adversity" or words to that degree.

The football has been rancid in the last few games, but I think claims are being made, that are unsubstantiated.....None of us are privvy to what goes on at BMH...yet we talk like we do.

You’re always keen to refer to what you see with your own eyes TRO and whilst we don’t see what happens at BMH, we’ve had plenty of chances to see what happens on match day. Surely you can see a consistent poor level of play to be concerned with what is going on behind the scenes?

We’re a team that hasn’t scored anything like the number of goals required and yet the manager thinks that the solution is to play negative, turgid football that not only is turning fans away but but also isn’t producing positive results. 
 

The benchmark for success cannot and should not be avoiding relegation. The current point a game largely achieved against lower half opponents, may ultimately not even achieve that. 
 

I’ve no genuine faith in the current manager to make any significant improvement. I can’t honestly see what your reasons he can either, other than blind faith and luck. I suppose that does currently seem to be the philosophy employed by the manager,  so I guess that’s your reasoning.  Let’s face it the likelihood of us being involved in a relegation battle is currently higher than fighting for a European spot. 

[TRO]

6 hours ago, duke313 said:

It comes from the notion that our current manager doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing, and that a somewhat competent manager would have us playing better with the current squad. See Newcastle and Brighton for examples.

So it seems we are arguing on 2 different parallels.

Brighton play better footbal than us, in general....but their winning stats are less than impressive.....in 135 games won 42.....Graham Potters record was worse than SG's as is Patrick Viera's.

so lets aim, for some perspective.....the problem with that of course, sounds like I condone our performances.....and I don't.

Newcastle are interesting, because despite the claims for industry busting transfers, their transfer buiness has been modest, in terms of transfer fees,  but strategic, and well thought through....Trippier, Burn and Guimares, were well thought through...Almiron has found some form playing in a team with belief.....and Wilson when fit, is as good as most strikers in the league......Willock has found some form and Murphy was always underrated for me.....and Joelinton's effective conversion has seen him offer much needed physicality in the middle.

good rounded side, Newcastle.

We could learn from it.

We don't need Graham Potter, we need Harry Potter.

[a m ole]

I think I’ve decided I want Emery the most

[TRO]

6 hours ago, tinker said:

None of these were as experienced as Poch is , in fact we have nearly always elevated managers rather than having one who's dropping a level to manage us.

If our owners want success they have to get a manager in who can and has performed at that level. Letting an inexperienced manager spend like they have is foolish. 

Poch or a manger like him would demand respect from the players, as he has done it at the top level. Seeing Gerrard scramble around looking lost isn't going inspire any of our players apart from a few of the younger ones. 

We know Beale was the brains of the operation, he's gone and Gerrard is spent. The gamble is over I'm afraid and now it's time to back a proven successful manager and start to build something successful. 

I hope Gerrard beats Chelsea and Fulham and we start to build , it's just not going to happen. 

Lets, have a look at all that.

• In Poch's last 2 jobs, he has had exceptional players and duly performed very well. In his previous 2 jobs to that, his performances was modest in comparison, with less quality players,  so which Poch do we get?....secondly, there is no evidence, he would even come to us.
• Spend like what......He has bought 2 players for c £25 mill each, 1 for £17 Mill which most thought was a snip..and players for cover...The wages, I have no idea....if its beyond what the industry level is.
• Well one stubborn contract rebel has just signed a long terms deal, so that suggests, your stab, at the negative.....is just a stab.
• Michael Beale is a well respected coach and has so far, made a good fist of his transition to the top job.....but when the coaching under SG is talked about and MB was in sole charge, by all accounts from Martinez, we still presided over 12 defeats last season....hardly the stuff of huge celebration.
• I hope SG wins every game for the rest of the season and that has to be the aim....Feeling sorry for ourselves, breeds a puny attitude....In all the pockets of successful teams, they all displayed a fighting spirit, we have never been a Barcelona, in any time in our history, more a Brentford or a Newcastle.....but we are neither, at present......We are neither one thing or the other, thats my take on Identity.....our football philosophy, is caught between a rock and a hard place,and we are in no mans land.

However.....I love this club, and I will support all in it......and hope we can find a semblance of form, to move on.

Edited October 15, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

48 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I am so sick of teams out grafting us, it has been a problem of ours for years. I don't pretend to thinks that is all SGs fault, but he has to get more out of the tools he has. 

 

I am with you all the way.......I felt Dean didn't have us playing, with the aggression, intensity, physicality and will, thats required......I thoughr SG would change that and he hasn't......To my huge surprise, I don't see much difference in approach from the players at all.....sure the system differs, but the attitude in my view doesn't.

I find it puzzling 2 managers can't change it.....and am beginning to think its more than just them, sadly Dean lost his job, do we need another manager to lose his.

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, a m ole said:

I think I’ve decided I want Emery the most

Emery Cloth, rubbed vigourously, on their Arses.....to get some life out of them.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Not until, the writing was on the wall.....I don't see the benefit as strongly as some do, of continually, culling managers.....i noticed,  how the most succesful clubs have have the least turn around of managers too.

And interestingly, Bruce still has the best win percentage of any manager since Graham Taylor Mk 1.....Albeit in the Championship, buy hey ho.

Odd choices, from your perspective.

I haven't read any proposal from you , as to who can shape this squad in to a winning, fully functioning, european bound unit.....my guess would be, a pre-requisite of a huge transfer kitty, would be high on the agenda.

I am all ears, and would give it the due consideration it deserves.

Fire away.

 

I'm confused as to why you wanted Dean Smith sacked. It doesn't really fit the whole villa never get it right and no one can come in and make a difference vibe your previous post seemed to have. 

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

You’re always keen to refer to what you see with your own eyes TRO and whilst we don’t see what happens at BMH, we’ve had plenty of chances to see what happens on match day. Surely you can see a consistent poor level of play to be concerned with what is going on behind the scenes?

We’re a team that hasn’t scored anything like the number of goals required and yet the manager thinks that the solution is to play negative, turgid football that not only is turning fans away but but also isn’t producing positive results. 
 

The benchmark for success cannot and should not be avoiding relegation. The current point a game largely achieved against lower half opponents, may ultimately not even achieve that. 
 

I’ve no genuine faith in the current manager to make any significant improvement. I can’t honestly see what your reasons he can either, other than blind faith and luck. I suppose that does currently seem to be the philosophy employed by the manager,  so I guess that’s your reasoning.  Let’s face it the likelihood of us being involved in a relegation battle is currently higher than fighting for a European spot. 

Just a couple of things to ponder Dave.

• Unlike you, I cannot put 2 and 2 together, I see low grade football, but I don't see low grade coaching.....now that might go against the grain with some, but Unless, I am sure the coaching is crap and I would hve to go to BMH and see for myself, I cannot find myself just reverting to blaming coaching....I cannot accept a performance against Man City, and then Leeds and Forest, as coaching alone, equally I cannot vouch for it either, because I am not privvy to the process.....I see it as players form, being inconsistent, leading to lack of belief and confidence, and subsequently, workrate, is affected.
• If you are missing potting shots at snooker, you have to resort to playing safe, to stay in the game.....SG does not want to play negative football, he has said so.....but necessity is the mother of invention.....if we continue to play open expansive football, we will be picked off in our current form.... We signed 2 robust, physical players to help with the balance of the team only to have lost them to cruel ong term injuries....That had to have an affect on us.
• Our front 6 are not playing well enough to hurt anybody, so a contingency has the be sought, until form and injured players return.
• You ask me for my reasons, why I support him....Its a number of things, the alternative, not being clear to me, at all.......I look at Arteta and the vitriol, he had to endure, before he turned it around, he was working on things, that was not manifesting itself on the pitch, that sometimes happens, and bingo, it clicked.....we don't always know when.....now they are flying, the board stood by him, and he says, he is doing nothing different to what he was, when they was losing......sometimes, things come come right, just when you want them to.
• I can't help you with faith in the manager.....I have to admit, I thought it would be different to this, so I am not trying to be clever.....I think the alternatives, set us back, another 6 months to assess the playing staff, only to find ourselves back where we started.
• Unless the club is put in danger of going down, I would tend to say, stick with it, and FIGHT to turn it around.

[DaveAV1]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Unless the club is put in danger of going down, I would tend to say, stick with it, and FIGHT to turn it around.

So if we’re in big trouble the answer is to change the manager but the manager makes no difference  under all other circumstances. I think I’ll leave you to it at this point TRO. 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'm confused as to why you wanted Dean Smith sacked. It doesn't really fit the whole villa never get it right and no one can come in and make a difference vibe your previous post seemed to have. 

I was dissappointed when Dean was sacked, but could see why, as I could with Steve Bruce.....They had over 100 games each to make  a mark.....SG has had c35 league games

I think there is a reasonable case there to be honest... to give more time.

Dean had us in relegation Danger, but in hindsight, maybe it was wrong, who knows.....maybe we should learn from that.

as for the Villa never get it right bit, I guess, that....Ron Saunders, Ron Atkinson, Brian Little,John Gregory, Graham Taylor....did get it right to a degree.....but in 33 managers, you check yourself and come up with your own conclusions, if mine don't suffice.

Winning is the bench mark for success, so the record of winning games, features very high on my agenda....maybe other folk use other alternative measurements

[a m ole]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

Emery Cloth, rubbed vigourously, on their Arses.....to get some life out of them.

The board’s?

Edited October 15, 2022 by a m ole

[TRO]

1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said:

So if we’re in big trouble the answer is to change the manager but the manager makes no difference  under all other circumstances. I think I’ll leave you to it at this point TRO. 

Its called a last throw of the dice.

If the change is no more substantiated, than the staus quo, and I don't believe it is.....then that is a perfectly feasible outcome.....and one that has been used before by us Dave.

Where we differ ( and others) you seem to think a change by an undisclosed manager, is a better bet, than the one we have......I don't ( but that does not mean, I am happy with what is being dished up)

I thought, you of all people, would get that.

[TRO]

I have been guilty in the past, during my time supporting Villa, of clinging to change the manager, in times, when the football has been poor.

sadly, it has not always worked, where its got better

In history.... we have made 12 successful changes, where the winning has got better......and 18 changes where the situation has got worse.

so make your own mind up.