Team shape, tactics and personnel

[DJBOB]

A good thread on Bournemouth’s press from Sunday and what I expect City will challenge us to do. Would have expected us to target McGinn often but they often tried to leave Bailey as the out ball and he predictably struggled. 
 
The areas where we miss Buendia and JJ, players who could often expose this man for man press. Also where we missed Kamara, someone who could receive the ball under pressure, hold off the marker and then release. Tielemans in the double pivot struggles to get turned forward. 
 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by DJBOB

[MaVilla]

Konsa can clearly play that Emery RB role well, but i think he benefits from having McGinn in front of him rather than Bailey, much more balanced with Konsa/McGinn on that right side.

I think it needs to be Bailey or Diaby supporting Watkins, then McGinn on the right.

Nice to see Tielemans is looking class on that left side, having Tielemans/Ramsey competing for that left side is top notch.

Carlos seems to be starting to look very settled in that CB role also, especially with Konsa to the right of him, looking at Jan, i wonder if we need actually need a RB if Konsa/Cash can challenge for it, and if Pau/Carlos can stay fit, maybe what we need is a RB who can play CB and visa versa, a bit like the Emery RB role, so can cover for either Konsa, Carlos or Cash as required in the RCB/RB area.

Anyways, the squad is looking very balanced right now, especially with Moreno and Ramsey coming back, Tielemans finding his stride, Carlos looking much more comfortable, Bailey showing that he can share time with Diaby supporting Watkins.

 

 

[DJBOB]

56 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Konsa can clearly play that Emery RB role well, but i think he benefits from having McGinn in front of him rather than Bailey, much more balanced with Konsa/McGinn on that right side.

I think it needs to be Bailey or Diaby supporting Watkins, then McGinn on the right.

Nice to see Tielemans is looking class on that left side, having Tielemans/Ramsey competing for that left side is top notch.

Carlos seems to be starting to look very settled in that CB role also, especially with Konsa to the right of him, looking at Jan, i wonder if we need actually need a RB if Konsa/Cash can challenge for it, and if Pau/Carlos can stay fit, maybe what we need is a RB who can play CB and visa versa, a bit like the Emery RB role, so can cover for either Konsa, Carlos or Cash as required in the RCB/RB area.

Anyways, the squad is looking very balanced right now, especially with Moreno and Ramsey coming back, Tielemans finding his stride, Carlos looking much more comfortable, Bailey showing that he can share time with Diaby supporting Watkins.

 

 

Bailey actually played out in front of Konsa with Tielemans in the second striker role and McGinn out left to start. 
 
But Kamara would often drop deep to create a quasi back 5 and track between Konsa and Diego. Tielemans was tasked with the same role at Bournemouth but was less effective at it. Tielemans would then drop into the midfield where Kamara was to complete the block.  
 
Bailey would often track back initially but then stay high and wide as an outlet ball, keeping Gvardiol back.

Unique set up that Unai used a few times last season but sparingly this season so far. 
 
Worked wonders in the end. 

[CVByrne]

The high press works when you have McGinn and Tielemans in the side. Their work rate is incredible. I think that was the right tactic for City not giving them the time to build up and control the game. 

I think the Bailey Konsa right side showed the right balance. It needs Tielemans off Watkins to be the right balance. 

The tactical flexibility Emery has is a big edge for us in this League. I like the competition for places too seems to be driving performances

[MaVilla]

 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Depends what you mean exactly by a plan B.

Emery have core principles of play that are unchangable like playing out from the back and try to control games.

He may tweak his system for certain games in terms of different personell or play 5 at the back instead of 4 but I would say our playstyle is pretty consistent.

You won't see him telling the players to just play long balls to Watkins.

I think plan B might be a myth ( outside of a pop band)

Managers like UE are always subtley shifting things around, to max out efficiency....He has a fundamental platform or base to work from, and all his work emanates from that.

Gary might be right, there is just a Plan A.

I have heard some football folk pour scorn on the theory of a Plan B....but hey ho, its all opinions.

I too am leaning towards just a Plan A, and variations of it.

[CVByrne]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think plan B might be a myth ( outside of a pop band)

Managers like UE are always subtley shifting things around, to max out efficiency....He has a fundamental platform or base to work from, and all his work emanates from that.

Gary might be right, there is just a Plan A.

I have heard some football folk pour scorn on the theory of a Plan B....but hey ho, its all opinions.

I too am leaning towards just a Plan A, and variations of it.

If the plan A is to attack where there is space then there is only a plan A. A coach giving instructions during a game or during half time to help attack where there is space then that's not Plan B.

One thing has still amazed me though. Was Alex Ferguson saying Villa were the team who impressed him the most after the first weekend of games. The game we lost 5-1 and were all crest fallen. He clearly knows enough about football to have seen a performance in spite of the result. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

If the plan A is to attack where there is space then there is only a plan A. A coach giving instructions during a game or during half time to help attack where there is space then that's not Plan B.

One thing has still amazed me though. Was Alex Ferguson saying Villa were the team who impressed him the most after the first weekend of games. The game we lost 5-1 and were all crest fallen. He clearly knows enough about football to have seen a performance in spite of the result. 

Results, can paint a distorted image, positively or negatively of the overall play.

it is the holy grail, but it can post a false narrative of a game.

 

[Villaphan04]

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

On 09/12/2023 at 12:04, TRO said:

Results, can paint a distorted image, positively or negatively of the overall play.

it is the holy grail, but it can post a false narrative of a game.

 

I agree. However we looked like shit for most of the game. Fergie must have been able to see through the weedy bollocks and spot the flowers underneath, and I'm not even going to pretend to know as much about the game as Alex Ferguson. 

[CVByrne]

11 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I agree. However we looked like shit for most of the game. Fergie must have been able to see through the weedy bollocks and spot the flowers underneath, and I'm not even going to pretend to know as much about the game as Alex Ferguson. 

To be fair we were going well in terms of our play and attacks until they got their 4th goal. Up until then we were behind 1.86 to 1.56 in terms of xG. They scored from a Konsa error and Cash missed a sitter. It was really a 3-2 loss in terms of how the game went, especially losing Mings to such a bad injury so early too.

 

[thunderball]

55 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

To be fair we were going well in terms of our play and attacks until they got their 4th goal. Up until then we were behind 1.86 to 1.56 in terms of xG. They scored from a Konsa error and Cash missed a sitter. It was really a 3-2 loss in terms of how the game went, especially losing Mings to such a bad injury so early too.

 

I rewatched this game a week following the match and it seemed a different encounter from the live viewing. We were really good until the third goal went in, we were showing character even in that hostile environment and in the adversity of losing Mings and blooding Torres. 

We are much more familiar with our patterns of play and individual responsibilities now, it was a freak result. I would suggest that doesn’t happen today.

I thought Fergie was trolling his old adversary at the time, but he clearly has a genius eye for formation, patterns and intent, after all he is one of the great managers.

[thunderball]

We have suddenly had a tidal wave of attention by a lot of serious football media and content producers (except Sky and their pundits), that suggest we do need to be taken seriously, and speculating that Emery is in fact a genius.

I guess this is where it all starts to go wrong….!

[CVByrne]

18 minutes ago, thunderball said:

We have suddenly had a tidal wave of attention by a lot of serious football media and content producers (except Sky and their pundits), that suggest we do need to be taken seriously, and speculating that Emery is in fact a genius.

I guess this is where it all starts to go wrong….!

This attention massively boosts the Villa brand and this out commercial department have to be on the ball getting deals done to boost our revenue. 

If we qualify for CL we can make it a transformative event like Poch at Spurs and their CL run. It helped boost them commercially that has lasted until today 

[DJBOB]

One of the better vidoes to talk about our out of possession defending and why it is so difficult to play through us.

Covers our diamond shaped press when we press high, trying to pin opponents wide and against the sideline by using Dougie as a shadow marker for their central progression. Covers our middle third mid-block which I'm starting to see the light on the low pressure/high line tactics that Unai uses - basically daring teams to go ahead and try to play that long ball over the top. The only two teams that I have seen unlock it are Newcastle and Liverpool early in the season. Newcastle and Liverpool both have very good passers at RB where we tend to let them have the ball. Given time, Trent and Trippier were allowed to pick their passes. I think Unai has two routes there - either to try and press high and fast like we did against Brighton and City or immediately revert to 5 or 6 at the back like we did away against Wolves to mitigate the early goal and take the sting out of the game.

Also highlights the importance of Kamara in Unai's system and his ability play at the base of a diamond when we press high but also track runners in between the RB and RCB to form a back 5. Dendoncker is the closest at performing this role but cannot provide the in possession passing and press resistance that Kamara has.

[MrBlack]

6 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

One of the better vidoes to talk about our out of possession defending and why it is so difficult to play through us.

Covers our diamond shaped press when we press high, trying to pin opponents wide and against the sideline by using Dougie as a shadow marker for their central progression. Covers our middle third mid-block which I'm starting to see the light on the low pressure/high line tactics that Unai uses - basically daring teams to go ahead and try to play that long ball over the top. The only two teams that I have seen unlock it are Newcastle and Liverpool early in the season. Newcastle and Liverpool both have very good passers at RB where we tend to let them have the ball. Given time, Trent and Trippier were allowed to pick their passes. I think Unai has two routes there - either to try and press high and fast like we did against Brighton and City or immediately revert to 5 or 6 at the back like we did away against Wolves to mitigate the early goal and take the sting out of the game.

Also highlights the importance of Kamara in Unai's system and his ability play at the base of a diamond when we press high but also track runners in between the RB and RCB to form a back 5. Dendoncker is the closest at performing this role but cannot provide the in possession passing and press resistance that Kamara has.

That is the challenge with Donk. His lack of press resistance makes him weak against teams that will come out and harass us, but his lack of passing ability also makes him weak against teams that play a low block. He brings very little to us on the ball in those two situations, which pretty much covers most of the league.

He does, as demomstrated against Arsenal, being plenty to us when off the ball. This makes his uses limited to games when we're already very comfortable (3 goal cushion), or games where we're hanging on to lead for a few minutes and Kamara is flagging.

He does have some ability on the ball, but it's a world away from Kamara, and even Kamara makes the odd mistake when being pressed.

[DJBOB]

25 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

That is the challenge with Donk. His lack of press resistance makes him weak against teams that will come out and harass us, but his lack of passing ability also makes him weak against teams that play a low block. He brings very little to us on the ball in those two situations, which pretty much covers most of the league.

He does, as demomstrated against Arsenal, being plenty to us when off the ball. This makes his uses limited to games when we're already very comfortable (3 goal cushion), or games where we're hanging on to lead for a few minutes and Kamara is flagging.

He does have some ability on the ball, but it's a world away from Kamara, and even Kamara makes the odd mistake when being pressed.

McGinn played this role a handful of times last season in a pinch and when Dendoncker played, he was actually used at the tip of the diamond when we pressed high with Dougie at the base instead.

Some alternatives if Kamara is rotated out or injured for a short period of time - but it is less than ideal and that is also a profile that is very difficult to find in the market.

[MrBlack]

2 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

McGinn played this role a handful of times last season in a pinch and when Dendoncker played, he was actually used at the tip of the diamond when we pressed high with Dougie at the base instead.

Some alternatives if Kamara is rotated out or injured for a short period of time - but it is less than ideal and that is also a profile that is very difficult to find in the market.

Indeed. Isn't our Timmy supposed to have something like that in his locker? Hopefully develops into the natural replacement some day soon.

[DJBOB]

Stop: The. Cash. RW. Experiment. 
 
It has only worked once against a hapless Burnley!

[Monkeypuzzle]

GK - Martinez, Olsen

RB - Cash, ???

CB - Konsa, Carlos

CB - Mings, Torres

LB - Moreno, Digne

DM - Kamara, Dendoncker

CM - Luiz, Tielemans

RAM - McGinn, Bailey

LAM - Ramsey, Buendia

CF - Diaby, Zaniolo

ST - Watkins, Duran

 

Who are you selling to replace in this squad? RB is the only spot with a vacancy. There are also a few senior players to sell who don't make the two players per position idea. For me, as well as Chambers, Hause and Traore going when possible, we could look at someone like Frimpong or Dumfries coming in for right back competition. Someone like Ferran Torres may come in whilst Buendia is still out, Ramsey is getting up to speed and Zaniolo has not made quite the impact they may have been hoping for. 

Or we may sign no one. That is a very strong squad that might even be leading the Premier League at Christmas, so who knows?