Team shape, tactics and personnel

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, Paul33 said:

The last three games have seen an alarming fear among our players of giving the ball away which, in turn, is drowning us as an attacking force. I get that Emery bases everything on keeping possession and you see him ripping in to players who dare to play long balls but the players look terrified to try anything adventurous, always choosing to play the easy ball sideways or, more often, backwards. Last night, everything ended up back with Konsa. Even when we had dead ball situations up front, the ball ended up going back to Konsa and the attacking opportunity was lost.

Our more creative players (eg: Luiz and ...... errrr ...... Torres ?) are too deep to create forward threats and the #10 role where such creativity needs to come from ...... is vacant. I get that Buendia is absent but somebody has to play the #10 role or you just end up with Duran and Watkins being completely absent from the game.

We desperately need a Maddison type player who always looks to make things happen whether by stepping around players or by making ambitious passes but Emery would never touch Maddison because his playmaking gambles mean that he occasionaly gives away possession and he can't deal with that.

The obsession of putting possession ahead of the game's fundamentals of actually scoring more goals than the opposition, has to change ..... the balance is all wrong as typified by the last 10 minutes at Chelsea and the last 10 minutes last night where we spent most of the time triangular passing at the back when we desperately needed the ball at the other end of the pitch.

Big game on Saturday ...... Emery needs to adapt his style because teams are starting to work it out and use it to their advantage.

I mean some of this is fundamentally not true given that he started Buendia for most of his games last year and his constant criticism was too many ambitious passes. 
 
It really just boils down to injuries to key players and not having a strong set of players at depth in the 12-16 spots to play the way Unai wants to play. 
 
I think our starting XI tactically will be fine but there are some huge question marks over our depth at midfield and defense. 

[osmark86]

We are seriously desperate for Mings, Buendia, Moreno and JJ back in full force. Our squad is paperthin atm unfortunately and I think it's showing on fatigue for some players.

[AV82]

Perhaps this is naive of me but I really think we need to risk exhausting our first 11 to buy some time. Build momentum, blow teams away and create a cushion in games so we can then sub on the likes of Lenglet, Chambers, Dendoncker, Tielemans, Traore and Duran to give them proper opportunity to settle into the rhythm of our play in a more controlled setting. Then, after those players start to show what they're capable of and our injury woes start to clear up, can we afford to rotate.

Our schedule is rammed and our lack of training time is going to affect how our backup players gel and settle into what is an incredibly unforgiving system. Add on the intense pressure that comes with our risky style of play and it starts to become more understandable why we're capable of playing like we did last night. Then consider the matches: away at the fortress of the impressively supported Legia Warszawa and an ugly, late, mid-week kick off under the watchful (and very often critical) eye of our home supporters against an Everton side we're absolutely expected to beat but who are resurgent, very well drilled under Dyche, and capable of a surprise.

Now consider all of this when Tielemans starts outnumbered in a midfield where one misplaced pass can turn the match and the stadium against you. Or when Lenglet takes to the field playing in a high line with unfamiliar teammates where one mis-step can create absolute chaos in your backline and spark unease across your team and supporters.

Admittedly having no left side (Moreno and Ramsey please come back) is throwing a spanner in the works but we really need to give our B players room to settle. That looks to be the way of it, whether we like it or not. I think we can all agree our second string are clearly not up to it right now and I'm starting to think it's unfair to expect them to come in and play at their absolute best as our system demands.

Edited September 28, 2023 by AV82

[DJBOB]

28 minutes ago, AV82 said:

Perhaps this is naive of me but I really think we need to risk exhausting our first 11 to buy some time. Build momentum, blow teams away and create a cushion in games so we can then sub on the likes of Lenglet, Chambers, Dendoncker, Tielemans, Traore and Duran to give them proper opportunity to settle into the rhythm of our play in a more controlled setting. Then, after those players start to show what they're capable of and our injury woes start to clear up, can we afford to rotate.

Our schedule is rammed and our lack of training time is going to affect how our backup players gel and settle into what is an incredibly unforgiving system. Add on the intense pressure that comes with our risky style of play and it starts to become more understandable why we're capable of playing like we did last night. Then consider the matches: away at the fortress of the impressively supported Legia Warszawa and an ugly, late, mid-week kick off under the watchful (and very often critical) eye of our home supporters against an Everton side we're absolutely expected to beat but who are resurgent, very well drilled under Dyche, and capable of a surprise.

Now consider all of this when Tielemans starts outnumbered in a midfield where one misplaced pass can turn the match and the stadium against you. Or when Lenglet takes to the field playing in a high line with unfamiliar teammates where one mis-step can create absolute chaos in your backline and spark unease across your team and supporters.

Admittedly having no left side (Moreno and Ramsey please come back) is throwing a spanner in the works but we really need to give our B players room to settle. That looks to be the way of it, whether we like it or not. I think we can all agree our second string are clearly not up to it right now and I'm starting to think it's unfair to expect them to come in and play at their absolute best as our system demands.

Yeah that’s the question, do we want to blow out the first XI by January risking both the league and conference?

Im willing to go the other way and pull the team together towards the second half of the year rather than exhausting us in the beginning. We stumbled our way through Gerrard in the first half of last year and qualified for Europe, thinks we can do the same. 
 
Moreno and JJ would go a long way to balancing our left side issues. Diego being back would rest Konsa. Maybe Dendoncker or Tielemans wouldn’t look so poor if it’s one or the other being played instead of both. 
 
Sorry Cash, no rest for you!

Edited September 28, 2023 by DJBOB

[TRO]

I chuckle when I see some making derisory comments of "Long Ball" football....whatever that means, ( I don't see any team doing that all the time) its just a means to an end, and elite passing teams like city use it at times, to good effect....so what.

Its totally ironic, how much of our defensive breaches have come from the "long ball", and our Possession based game has seen us losing possession, so passively at times....so make of that what you will.

Its not a good time for making hard and fast statements of what we are, and what we don't want to be, because right now in some games we are struggling to do the fundamentals

[TRO]

20 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

In it for the long haul.

Always said there would be ups and downs.

Have my own concerns but in absolutely no way doubting the overall project.

We are simply going to need better depth to play the way we are determined to play.

As well as us getting our better players back from injury of course.

He knows the squad better than all of us, as well as what the priorities are, so as frustrating as it is to some fans... Carabao Cup etc ain't it.

If we finish in Europa League placing and get to the final of the Conference ( Hopefully winning it ) I highly doubt people first thoughts will be about to Carabao Cup or our first game against Legia Warsaw.

The thing is shaun, its not defeats, that are concerning in itself, its the manner of them.

We could be playing scintillating football, and still lose away to Newcastle and Liverpool, both very good sides.....

The Crystal palace and Chelsea games renedered maximum points, great....but the performances wasn't convincing for periods of both games.

Warsaw and Everton, was concerning, both performances and results.

I don't know, what our true self is, only time will tell me.....but we need some grit and spirit from somewhere and the talent will inevitably shine.

I have no doubt, we have some truly talented players, I have doubts in our abilty to eek out, the battles and seize the initiative....if we do, I think you will see the talented players shine...at present, I think they are waiting for the battle to be won.

Edited September 28, 2023 by TRO

[MWARLEY2]

Inconsistency has come back with a bang hasn't it. And teams are working us out more easily. I hate to say it but we lacked a plan B yesterday. Torres cannot find holes in a 5 man well marshalled defence to play his defence splitting passes. We needed a busy bee further up the pitch to play clever passes between the lines. Diaby was closed down, Zaniolo was nullified on the left and Tielemans was not at the races. Both Duran and Watkins offered nothing . Every pass was obvious last night. Not one clever move bar the free kick. Just back to the keeper or the DM, pass left to right and back again 5 times and then to the fullbacks with no overloads or patterns. It was an awful watch last night . No doubt we will be better on Saturday but i am concerned about how much better Brighton will be with 65 percent possession on Saturday

[DJBOB]

Everton, despite their troubles, have a very solid defense. Once they were ahead, we were always going to be in trouble. 

[andym]

23 hours ago, TRO said:

The thing is shaun, its not defeats, that are concerning in itself, its the manner of them.

We could be playing scintillating football, and still lose away to Newcastle and Liverpool, both very good sides.....

The Crystal palace and Chelsea games renedered maximum points, great....but the performances wasn't convincing for periods of both games.

Warsaw and Everton, was concerning, both performances and results.

I don't know, what our true self is, only time will tell me.....but we need some grit and spirit from somewhere and the talent will inevitably shine.

I have no doubt, we have some truly talented players, I have doubts in our abilty to eek out, the battles and seize the initiative....if we do, I think you will see the talented players shine...at present, I think they are waiting for the battle to be won.

I'd say we are a team making that step to the top 6/7, with the aim to keep improving and try and crack the top 4.

We are trying to become a team that keeps the ball better, that controls games, imposes our will, however you want to couch it; that is the hallmark of the better sides. One that isn't afraid to take risks (i.e. playing out from the back and playing a high line) because the rewards in terms of results are great, and one that can bounce back from bad results.

I'll be honest, i'm surprised we've got this far this quick; Unai's only had 31 league games, and our progress in all of the above has, overall, improved massively.

Yes we are liable to throw in some absolute shockers, but that is pretty much the case for every team bar 1 or 2. Man Utd finished 3rd last season yet lost 8 times away, often in poor fashion (got hammered 7-0 at Liverpool for example). Liverpool themselves had some really poor away results.

The next step (and i think its what Unai keeps alluding to when he says we need all players to gain confidence in how we play) is to be able to make changes to the side and not have players suddenly panicking, giving it away cheaply and making stupid defensive errors. Easier said than done, and we are not the only team to struggle with this. At the end of last season Brighton had to start rotating because of a crazy fixture pile up, and ended up getting smashed 5-1 at home by Everton, following that up with a 4-1 loss away at Newcastle.

You've seen enough football and enough great sides over the years @TRO to know that being consistently good takes time and effort, with everyone needing to buy in. 

 

[Zatman]

2nd highest scoring team in the league at the moment

[DJBOB]

I think if we can get JJ, Moreno, and Diego healthy - that means that our 12-17 players can be Duran, Zaniolo, Diego, Dendoncker, Digne, Tielemans

That can probably be rotated enough to be effective in 2 competitions (league and conference).

Edited September 30, 2023 by DJBOB

[DJBOB]

Got to risk it for the biscuit. 
 
An almost suicidal high line. Douglas Luiz sitting on top of their double pivot to make sure they didn’t play out. Kamara screening in front of their CF’s for no easy balls into feet. Cash and Digne isolated 1v1 and Pau Torres frequently within the Brighton half when Steele had the ball!

Unai has balls of steel for that aggressive press and look how it paid off. 
 
The high line stays!

[Pinebro]

It's ridiculous how big of a difference there is between our first team and reserve team.

Lot of players Emery needs to ship out. We have to be able to rely on the whole squad but we can't.

[MWARLEY2]

We went more direct again. Just like against Newcastle last season. And we have had our 2 best performances. 

[DJBOB]

1 minute ago, MWARLEY2 said:

We went more direct again. Just like against Newcastle last season. And we have had our 2 best performances. 

Just to balance the idea, we also went direct against Liverpool and Newcastle but we couldn’t get it to stick up front. Ollie was not winning a lot of his duels. 
 
When teams come to press, we are well capable of playing direct to many of our transition threats but a majority of teams will not come at VP to press us. 

[MWARLEY2]

20 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Just to balance the idea, we also went direct against Liverpool and Newcastle but we couldn’t get it to stick up front. Ollie was not winning a lot of his duels. 
 
When teams come to press, we are well capable of playing direct to many of our transition threats but a majority of teams will not come at VP to press us. 

I guess thats why McGinn said after the tactics meeting that he didnt know how the game would go. 

[Farlz]

 

[DJBOB]

 Always a good thread from him on Villa’s aggressive press and the fine margins. I’m sure that’s why McGinn said it could go either way. He was marking 3 players when the ball was on the other half of the pitch. High risk/high reward 

[TRO]

On 29/09/2023 at 18:42, andym said:

I'd say we are a team making that step to the top 6/7, with the aim to keep improving and try and crack the top 4.

We are trying to become a team that keeps the ball better, that controls games, imposes our will, however you want to couch it; that is the hallmark of the better sides. One that isn't afraid to take risks (i.e. playing out from the back and playing a high line) because the rewards in terms of results are great, and one that can bounce back from bad results.

I'll be honest, i'm surprised we've got this far this quick; Unai's only had 31 league games, and our progress in all of the above has, overall, improved massively.

Yes we are liable to throw in some absolute shockers, but that is pretty much the case for every team bar 1 or 2. Man Utd finished 3rd last season yet lost 8 times away, often in poor fashion (got hammered 7-0 at Liverpool for example). Liverpool themselves had some really poor away results.

The next step (and i think its what Unai keeps alluding to when he says we need all players to gain confidence in how we play) is to be able to make changes to the side and not have players suddenly panicking, giving it away cheaply and making stupid defensive errors. Easier said than done, and we are not the only team to struggle with this. At the end of last season Brighton had to start rotating because of a crazy fixture pile up, and ended up getting smashed 5-1 at home by Everton, following that up with a 4-1 loss away at Newcastle.

You've seen enough football and enough great sides over the years @TRO to know that being consistently good takes time and effort, with everyone needing to buy in. 

 

I can wax lyrical, like the next man, when we have performances like today.......but lets be honest here, that was in complete contrast to the mid week cup exit, and the Game in Poland.

I can only call games for what they are.....it has no bearing on my support for the club, which has been for over 60 years.

Are you saying we can't comment objectively, when we have poor games?.....but can wallow in superlatives, when we have good ones?

commenting on individual games versus evaluating our overall progress is 2 different things....its like a strawman argument.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Not sure if this was discussed but after Brighton scored and were getting a little joy down our right flank Emery switched things around and played Kamara in defence to add some solidity.

Cash was pushed up to right side of midfield and this allowed us to re-balance and get hold of the ball a bit more, Villa then took control of the game.

I recall this also happened earlier in the season for a short period of a game (PL?) where Kamara was used in the right-side of defence.

Professor Emery indeed.