Israel, Palestine and Iran

[VILLAMARV]

20 hours ago, Jareth said:

That anyone thought to hold a rave 2 km from the border of Gaza feels as though they hadn't considered the geography a security issue.

To be fair it's just this comment it stems from eh? I dont think the israeli authorities sought to put on a festival. It's a site that has been used, according to my acquaintance ,for years now for multiple events. According to a billboard reporter the original site in southern israel fell through and 2 days before , the organisers had to find a new site and this one had everything you'd need built in for a last minute switch.

It was 3 miles from the border. Within range of rocket fire, ok, but hardly dancing the other side of the big walls and fences the Palestinians have to live behind.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

 

Iran probably worked out that if they could arrange something horrendous, Israel would react in a vengeful scorched earth way and Arab states would find it very difficult to continue progressing towards normalised relations.

 

Just wondering on your thoughts here:

I appreciate geopolitics is often a game of informed guesswork (who knows what long term interests and deals nations might have between each other) but don't you think that if Israel was in fact making progress to build economic relations with neighbouring arab states, they would keep their appearances as a little more 'calm'? I.e., retaliate against Hamas, but keep appearances up to seem a bit more friendly to the wider world audience? Maybe keep Netanyahu and the army from making some of the comments they made during the last 2 weeks? 

A scorched earth tactic against an enemy is not a great policy if the next day they are looking to build some new international relations?  

[Tumblerseven]

14 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

retaliate against Hamas, but keep appearances up to seem a bit more friendly to the wider world audience? Maybe keep Netanyahu and the army from making some of the comments they made during the last 2 weeks? 

A scorched earth tactic against an enemy is not a great policy if the next day they are looking to build some new international relations?  

The harsh reality is no one likes Palestinians im talking about the Arab countries who surround them. Not Egypt not Jordan no one likes them because every time one of those countries take Palestinian refugees they do some crazy shit. Killing kings or prime ministers taking over the government kidnaping planes bombings. Everywhere they go they try to influence or force the country who took them and helped them to fight against Israel.

Every Arab country who is now "crying" for Palestinian civilian casualties are virtue signaling with intent to make themselves look like victims and Israel look like evil aggressor against muslims. Those countries have no real intention to help Palestine or their people.

It wont affect their trade or cooperation relationship or if it will they will normalize relationships pretty fast because they don't care about palestine.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tumblerseven

[Thug]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Just wondering on your thoughts here:

I appreciate geopolitics is often a game of informed guesswork (who knows what long term interests and deals nations might have between each other) but don't you think that if Israel was in fact making progress to build economic relations with neighbouring arab states, they would keep their appearances as a little more 'calm'? I.e., retaliate against Hamas, but keep appearances up to seem a bit more friendly to the wider world audience? Maybe keep Netanyahu and the army from making some of the comments they made during the last 2 weeks? 

A scorched earth tactic against an enemy is not a great policy if the next day they are looking to build some new international relations?  

Like you say, politics is very complex at the best of times.  There are some very powerful entities that need to be kept happy.  Also, there are often opportunities that were thought impossible, which become viable after certain events.

A lot of conspiracy theories, without any back up evidence at all.  I’ve seen theories floating about suggesting the attack was kind of ‘allowed’ to happen.  Lots of questions about why it took as long as it did for the response, how an impenetrable wall suddenly got penetrated with such ease etc. Others suggesting that someone else from within collaborated.

I don’t believe these as I can’t understand how this would benefit Netanyahu in the slightest.  He was walking a tight rope already, and it seems pretty much like he’ll be gone as soon as things settle.

I think Hamas got ‘lucky’.  All the stars aligned and the tragedy unfolded.  And that invoked a furious response from Israel because they can’t be seen to be weak - to prevent any recurrence.

 

[Jareth]

29 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

To be fair it's just this comment it stems from eh? I dont think the israeli authorities sought to put on a festival. It's a site that has been used, according to my acquaintance ,for years now for multiple events. According to a billboard reporter the original site in southern israel fell through and 2 days before , the organisers had to find a new site and this one had everything you'd need built in for a last minute switch.

It was 3 miles from the border. Within range of rocket fire, ok, but hardly dancing the other side of the big walls and fences the Palestinians have to live behind.

Like it says - ‘hold a rave’ not attend a rave. That is was switched last minute is quite significant too - Hamas would not have planned it as a target until the last minute - did it trigger the attack? Whoever switched the venue did so out of not having to refund ticket holders, they have left themselves wide open for accusations that they rushed the risk planning. 

[Mic09]

19 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

The harsh reality is no one likes Palestinians im talking about the Arab countries who surround them. Not Egypt not Jordan no one likes them because every time one of those countries take Palestinian refugees they do some crazy shit. Killing kings or prime ministers taking over the government kidnaping planes bombings. Everywhere they go they try to influence or force the country who took them and helped them to fight against Israel.

Every Arab country who is now "crying" for Palestinian civilian casualties are virtue signaling with intent to make themselves look like victims and Israel look like evil aggressor against muslims. Those countries have no real intention to help Palestine or their people.

It wont affect their trade or cooperation relationship or if it will they will normalize relationships pretty fast because they don't care about palestine.

I like how you turned a question of Israeli intentions in the geopolitical game in the Arab world into a rant on Palestine.

[Jareth]

20 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

The harsh reality is no one likes Palestinians im talking about the Arab countries who surround them. Not Egypt not Jordan no one likes them because every time one of those countries take Palestinian refugees they do some crazy shit. Killing kings or prime ministers taking over the government kidnaping planes bombings. Everywhere they go they try to influence or force the country who took them and helped them to fight against Israel.

Every Arab country who is now "crying" for Palestinian civilian casualties are virtue signaling with intent to make themselves look like victims and Israel look like evil aggressor against muslims. Those countries have no real intention to help Palestine or their people.

It wont affect their trade or cooperation relationship or if it will they will normalize relationships pretty fast because they don't care about palestine.

Gonna need to stop blockading it if you want Arab, or any other countries to help. 

[Tumblerseven]

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I like how you turned a question of Israeli intentions in the geopolitical game in the Arab world into a rant on Palestine.

no the original question was about irans influence of the arab world.

can you actually quote me that question you talking about the israeli intentions in the geopolitical game in the arab world?

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tumblerseven

[magnkarl]

3 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

What? Are you suggesting that Israel acts with impunity, kills who it wants, and thumbs it's nose at international law?

You're an antisemite Sir and I will collect my £200

I think this sort of statement does mar the actual AS happening around Western societies atm. because of Israel's actions, just like I think Israel's hyperbolic use of AS as a weapon against legitimate criticism is terribly marring. 

Believe me, there's plenty of AS going on in countries that have nothing to do with Benny or Israel, and it's mostly being fluffed off by statements like the one  you just made.

[Mic09]

5 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

no the original question was about irans influence of the arab world.

can you actually quote me that question you talking about the israeli intentions in the geopolitical game in the arab world?

No problem,  here is the original post:

 

Quote

I appreciate geopolitics is often a game of informed guesswork (who knows what long term interests and deals nations might have between each other) but don't you think that if Israel was in fact making progress to build economic relations with neighbouring arab states, they would keep their appearances as a little more 'calm'? I.e., retaliate against Hamas, but keep appearances up to seem a bit more friendly to the wider world audience? Maybe keep Netanyahu and the army from making some of the comments they made during the last 2 weeks? 

A scorched earth tactic against an enemy is not a great policy if the next day they are looking to build some new international relations?  

Here is what you quoted:

 

Quote

retaliate against Hamas, but keep appearances up to seem a bit more friendly to the wider world audience? Maybe keep Netanyahu and the army from making some of the comments they made during the last 2 weeks? 

A scorched earth tactic against an enemy is not a great policy if the next day they are looking to build some new international relations?  

If you wanted to reference a prior post that's cool, but what you quoted has not even had a mention of Iran. It just felt like a dig at Palestine (who also weren't mentioned anywhere above). 

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, Tumblerseven said:

Uh oh Jewish conspiracy theories here we go. Whats next? Soros? jews control media? world economic forum? go ahead dont be shy.

Your follow up question trying to paint me as outsider who is not interested in the team here read this. Othering is the process of portraying someone as fundamentally different from or inferior to the group they belong to. It can involve emphasizing perceived differences in race, ethnicity, nationality, beliefs, or other factors to create a sense of "us" versus "them." thats exactly what you just did using villa i think thats disgusting. The point of this tactic to alienate person from the group so everyone can gang up and push that person out . nice try not gonna work.

Yes yes my first language is not English you want to shame me for that seriously go ahead? i think im trying my best and i think my statements are pretty clear and understandable.

It puts you on the list?  yah dude you are "very important". 

I think your comment is like actually disgusting shame on you.

Can you please stop with this nonsense? This sort of idiotic behaviour is causing actual racism for people outside of Israel as they constantly have to deal with people who use the term AS in a terrible way.

I'm Jewish, and frankly I'm getting very tired of both sets of supporters in this conflict. They're as bad as each other. Over half of Israel isn't a supporter of Benny's idiotic policies, maybe you should go and argue with them instead? 

Edited October 26, 2023 by magnkarl

[Tumblerseven]

@Mic09 no you cant follow the conversation original question was

Quote

 

i've been lurking on this thread for a while, reading all the various thoughts and opinions.

For the knowledgeable posters, can I ask what Iran has to do with any of this? What's their goal and why are they so keen on destabilising the region?

 

you actually changed and hijacked discussion and made it everything about israel. i think everyone can see it by reading.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tumblerseven

[Jareth]

11 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I think this sort of statement does mar the actual AS happening around Western societies atm. because of Israel's actions, just like I think Israel's hyperbolic use of AS as a weapon against legitimate criticism is terribly marring. 

You should have seen how Corbyn said Epstein, wow that was antisemitic. 

[Mic09]

Just now, Tumblerseven said:

@Mic09 no you cant follow the conversationoriginal question was

you actually changed and hijacked discussion and made it everything about israel.

Yes, by asking a question relating to Israel's intentions I hijacked the discussion. That is exactly what I did. I shall now beg for forgiveness and repent. 

Another way to look at it is that I asked a question of another poster's thoughts on the topic in question. 

Maybe you should have quoted the relevant post on Iran in that case - not one with no mention of Iran or Palestine.

 

[magnkarl]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

You should have seen how Corbyn said Epstein, wow that was antisemitic. 

I think Corbyn did a good job outside of saying Epstein in looking like an old-fashioned pro-Hamas man, with absolutely zero clue about how his actions actually looked considering he claims to be an anti-racist. He's the kind of person this conflict absolutely does not need.

Looking back, his track record on this conflict is quite the read, isn't it?

Worked for Iranian Press TV, together with now known Putin and Iran shills Chris Williamson and George Galloway

Called Hamas good friends.

Went to a commemoration of several Hamas\Black September terrorists.

Either Corbyn must be senile, or it reeks of a man with absolutely no moral compass. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by magnkarl

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I think Corbyn did a good job outside of saying Epstein in looking like an old-fashioned pro-Hamas man, with absolutely zero clue about how his actions actually looked considering he claims to be an anti-racist. He's the kind of person this conflict absolutely does not need.

Yes but if you’re in the topic of how the term AS has been weaponised - I gotta tell you, it’s been happening for years. 

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, reading all the various thoughts and opinions.

For the knowledgeable posters, can I ask what Iran has to do with any of this? What's their goal and why are they so keen on destabilising the region?

Other users have covered most of it, but one of the big points I’ve not seen raised is that Iran are a predominantly Shia Muslim country whereas most of the Middle East is Sunni (including the Palestinians), which is why they’re generally quite isolated in the region beyond their own proxies.

[magnkarl]

4 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Yes but if you’re in the topic of how the term AS has been weaponised - I gotta tell you, it’s been happening for years. 

Now you're onto this binary thinking again.

a) Israel's right wing governemt calls most criticism of the state AS.

b) Since Israel does so all claims of AS is bullshit to many anti-Israel folks.

You are aware that there's several cases in between those two right? 

Edited October 26, 2023 by magnkarl

[Thug]

14 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Other users have covered most of it, but one of the big points I’ve not seen raised is that Iran are a predominantly Shia Muslim country whereas most of the Middle East is Sunni (including the Palestinians), which is why they’re generally quite isolated in the region beyond their own proxies.

Indeed.  I wonder if they are trying to garner support from other Muslim countries by appearing to be the biggest supporter of the Palestinian cause.  

Undermines the Saudi’s.

 

[Tumblerseven]

Pro-Palestinian rally at Cooper Union leads to tense moments at school library - CBS New York (cbsnews.com)

 

Quote

NEW YORK -- There were tense moments at the campus of Cooper Union in Manhattan on Wednesday afternoon.

Students who are pro-Israel say they felt unsafe as pro-Palestinian demonstrators banged and chanted outside the library they were studying in. They tell CBS New York's Lisa Rozner school staff locked them in the library due to safety concerns.

Police say there were no injuries, arrests or property damage, and that this was a planned demonstration. The NYPD is reviewing surveillance video

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tumblerseven