Guest av1 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 5 hours ago, TRO said: I am not saying he is the best thing since sliced bread.....but the arguments presented against him is just too much Imo. The thing is mate, you have apportioned most of the blame on the players. Yet these players are players that Bruce signed, and players that were fantastic in this league for their former clubs, so the common denominator is Bruce. I respect you as a poster mate, but on Bruce i think you are blinkered, and it was a post you made some time back that led me to form that opinion. I've not got the inclination to search for the post so I'll paraphrase. But you basically said that the players were to blame, and if these players failed (players Bruce signed) you would allow Bruce another window to sign more. And If they failed, you would allow him to sign even more. In essence, you are completely absolving him of all blame. In which case, if its all down to the players, whats the point in a manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 hours ago, villabromsgrove said: I understand where you're coming from Blandy, and I respect TRO's point of view. By common consensus our September fixtures give us an opportunity to kick on and put plenty of points on the board, but what if it doesn't happen? We currently have one win in five league games and we are already playing catch up. By Bruce's own admission we have just half the number of points he was hoping for. On the basis of the last almost eleven months I have lost confidence in SB's ability to play the right kind of football or even to pick the right team in order to take advantage of the coming month's fixtures. I will be delighted if we amass a September haul of points, but conversely I will be hugely frustrated if we are cast way adrift by an unnecessarily disappointing month of football, given the players at our disposal. I think thats fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, av1 said: The thing is mate, you have apportioned most of the blame on the players. Yet these players are players that Bruce signed, and players that were fantastic in this league for their former clubs, so the common denominator is Bruce. I respect you as a poster mate, but on Bruce i think you are blinkered, and it was a post you made some time back that led me to form that opinion. I've not got the inclination to search for the post so I'll paraphrase. But you basically said that the players were to blame, and if these players failed (players Bruce signed) you would allow Bruce another window to sign more. And If they failed, you would allow him to sign even more. In essence, you are completely absolving him of all blame. In which case, if its all down to the players, whats the point in a manager? AV i think you have slightly run away with the point. of course he cannot continually buy players and we all blame them. but equally he has had a major rebuilding job to do. I would love to have a one on one with him to get a clearer opinion.....i suppose we all would. its easy to discard the players part in this, but it is down to them particularly some of the things i have witnessed.....some things i have seen would be hard pressed to blame bruce.....i will give you my seat number and you can sit alongside me and i will explain what i see and we can debate......just joking. as an example.....would you blame southgate for the poor decision Sterling made the other night against Malta?.......no, nobody would. I understand the Manager must take ultimate responsibility, but the players are not blameless either......but he does take the responsibility for signing them.....so my point is, instead of calling him a **** manager explain what you/ anyone means explicitly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 hours ago, blandy said: Ta. You ask what if it doesn't happen? - Not worth worrying about right now IMO. I suspect we all know what is likely to happen in that case vb, but we're not there yet and a few wins and a good run and things would look a lot sunnier. I mean it's not impossible by a long way, so I'm just taking the hopeful, positive outlook. I take your view.....no good looking for trouble until it comes. I too think september will be a defining month. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, av1 said: The thing is mate, you have apportioned most of the blame on the players. Yet these players are players that Bruce signed, and players that were fantastic in this league for their former clubs, so the common denominator is Bruce. I respect you as a poster mate, but on Bruce i think you are blinkered, and it was a post you made some time back that led me to form that opinion. I've not got the inclination to search for the post so I'll paraphrase. But you basically said that the players were to blame, and if these players failed (players Bruce signed) you would allow Bruce another window to sign more. And If they failed, you would allow him to sign even more. In essence, you are completely absolving him of all blame. In which case, if its all down to the players, whats the point in a manager? Well Benteke was great for us and not Liverpool......not sure what we glean from that. it happens ,part of the tricky bits a manager has to cope with. I guess Djemba Djemba never featured in Sir Alexs Book either...or veron. Look my point is.....not everything works as frustrating as that is, because for us in the last 8 years, not much has. Edited September 3, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 If Xia's aim is to give Bruce the whole of September I think that he might as well stick by him beyond that no matter what. I just don't see a new man coming in and getting us promoted having missed the first 9 or 10 games. He would need time to get settled into what his best 11 would be and we would be writing this season off and going again next season. Groundhog day for Villa. No, for me personally, if we give Bruce September then we might just as well go with it and see where we're at come January. If the owner thinks that a change is needed, give the new man a January window to see if he can do some good deals and have the last half of the season to get used to what we have ready for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 21 minutes ago, villarocker said: If Xia's aim is to give Bruce the whole of September I think that he might as well stick by him beyond that no matter what. I just don't see a new man coming in and getting us promoted having missed the first 9 or 10 games. He would need time to get settled into what his best 11 would be and we would be writing this season off and going again next season. Groundhog day for Villa. Absolutely not. What would that achieve? If we are nowhere near promotion then why persevere with someone who is clearly not up to the job? As I keep being told, managers need time to get the team playing how they want so if we end up writing off this season I want to see someone else come in with a plan and start getting the ream/squad used to that plan and adapting to it. Why waste half a season that could be used by the new man, rather than him having to wait until the summer? Steve Bruce has to have us challenging at the top of the table by the end of September, or he has to go, no ifs, buts or maybes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, villarocker said: If Xia's aim is to give Bruce the whole of September I think that he might as well stick by him beyond that no matter what. I just don't see a new man coming in and getting us promoted having missed the first 9 or 10 games. He would need time to get settled into what his best 11 would be and we would be writing this season off and going again next season. Groundhog day for Villa. No, for me personally, if we give Bruce September then we might just as well go with it and see where we're at come January. If the owner thinks that a change is needed, give the new man a January window to see if he can do some good deals and have the last half of the season to get used to what we have ready for next season. Far better do it in October rather than January - at least the man man has 3 months to assess things before the next window - with 35 games left it's not too late to make up the gap - other clubs have been in the bottom 6 at xmas and got promoted - we have the squad already here . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, villarocker said: If Xia's aim is to give Bruce the whole of September I think that he might as well stick by him beyond that no matter what. I just don't see a new man coming in and getting us promoted having missed the first 9 or 10 games. He would need time to get settled into what his best 11 would be and we would be writing this season off and going again next season. Groundhog day for Villa. No, for me personally, if we give Bruce September then we might just as well go with it and see where we're at come January. If the owner thinks that a change is needed, give the new man a January window to see if he can do some good deals and have the last half of the season to get used to what we have ready for next season. Been saying similar for a while. Our best chance of promotion this season is Bruce coming good. not I know you may guffaw at that - but the chances of a new bloke coming in and rip roaring us to promotion are close to zero. The best policy for the club to adopt post september - is to acknowledge privately that bruce isn't the man for us. But equally swapping him for Moyes, Pardew, Smith isn't going to cut it either. ....but we make our move when someone decent becomes available..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eastie said: Far better do it in October rather than January - at least the man man has 3 months to assess things before the next window - with 35 games left it's not too late to make up the gap - other clubs have been in the bottom 6 at xmas and got promoted - we have the squad already here . But the pickings in October are very sparce. Change in October appoint another unproven , or journeyman manager - and there will be call for his head by Feb ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, hippo said: Been saying similar for a while. Our best chance of promotion this season is Bruce coming good. not I know you may guffaw at that - but the chances of a new bloke coming in and rip roaring us to promotion are close to zero. The best policy for the club to adopt post september - is to acknowledge privately that bruce isn't the man for us. But equally swapping him for Moyes, Pardew, Smith isn't going to cut it either. ....but we make our move when someone decent becomes available..... Why not go out and get someone decent rather than waiting for them to be available ? The likes of jovanovic have release clauses based on compensation being met . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, Eastie said: Why not go out and get someone decent rather than waiting for them to be available ? The likes of jovanovic have release clauses based on compensation being met . Thats speculation - and you're assuming Jovanovic wants to come. If we change in october its Pardew, Moyes , Smith or a remi garde type punt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, hippo said: Thats speculation - and you're assuming Jovanovic wants to come. If we change in october its Pardew, Moyes , Smith or a remi garde type punt I'd take pardew ahead of Bruce . Can we afford to wait - failure this season will mean cutbacks next summer and little cash for a new manager . This is a big job and a very good squad - I'm sure there are managers who would leave their cluBs for a shot at promotion with Villa Edited September 4, 2017 by Eastie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hippo said: Thats speculation - and you're assuming Jovanovic wants to come. If we change in october its Pardew, Moyes , Smith or a remi garde type punt You know it will be moyes with round at the helm Edited September 4, 2017 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: You know it will be moyes with round at the helm A year ago I'd have taken moyes - I think now though after his Sunderland demise he is too much damaged goods . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: You know it will be moyes with round at the helm Fully agree. If we lose Bruce Moyes is nailed on! He just fits what the club are looking for. Based on everything we have learnt from the credentials the club will look for with a new manager Anyone wanting the gamble of an exciting new manager is going to be dissapointed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, Nigel said: He just fits what the club are looking for. Does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Does it? I don't know what you are questioning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 41 minutes ago, Nigel said: Fully agree. If we lose Bruce Moyes is nailed on! He just fits what the club are looking for. Based on everything we have learnt from the credentials the club will look for with a new manager Anyone wanting the gamble of an exciting new manager is going to be dissapointed! Maybe xia realises this now himself and will take more of a hand in appointing the replacement - after all wyness and round have hardly done themselves any favours on current record - hopefully things will change and we will get the right appointment for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nigel said: I don't know what you are questioning Sorry, I should have said "does he?" (maybe I've stopped thinking of David Moyes as human? ) What makes you think that David Moyes "fits what the club is looking for"? Edited September 4, 2017 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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