Football Manager 2017

[abdomlahor]

I hate the current work permit system. As I understand it, part of the reasoning is to increase the quality of players playing in the country and restrict the number of "sub standard" foreign players.

So I go after a player my scouts, who make a living identifying talented players, highly recommend. He's only 17 so i have no chance of a work permit right off the bat, unless he holds dual eu citizenship (which he doesn't). 

So instead, I farm him out to Belgium for FIVE years with the sole intention of him getting this permit? That is hardly proving that he's capable of playing in the premier league. 

The appeals process should be so much better. Make it so there can be exceptions based on recommendations and reputation in their home country, rather than international caps and the other arbitrary criteria they ask for. 

I literally spent £30m on a 20 year old Ukrainian centre back with 9 internaional caps, earning 60k per week and he didn't get one. Does that not show how highly we thought of him? He was so good I signed him anyways and loaned him out to Sevilla for a year where he averaged a 7.30 rating and won young player honours. He got it after a year when I applied for one. He could have been doing that here, but, yno, INGERLAND

Edited April 26, 2017 by abdomlahor

[Midfielder]

Yes it's not the best as the bigger your stature the more lenient they are. When in reality there's more chance of say Chelsea farming them out, than say a Hull City using them for first XI. 

Maybe, maybe we're even responsible for the Farage style Dept of Work / Immigration change of work permit Standard Operating Procedures... 

 

-Hello? Dept of Work / Immigration here...

---Hi yeah it's me, John Gregory. Yeah I need a work permit for a Croatian guy, arranged a £6million deal, don't worry it's all legit and he will be the next Shearer you'll see. I've got a good feeling on this one. 

-But sir, has he been scouted? We don't just hand permits out so willingly. 

---Scouted? I don't need to scout him, I've just watched a two minute clip on YouTube and this guy is world class I tells ya. Bosko his name, Bosko Balaban. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Midfielder

[Villan_of_oz]

Hey @Midfielder I'm back home and in a hour or two when the kids are fed I'm going to have one massive fm17 sesh.

Want anyone who reads this opinion ..... Do I start again or try and rescue my villa save? 

From memory its about 12 games into the season I have 7 points and I'm bottom but 17th is on about 14 points. 

I like my team but morale couldn't be lower and I'm have absolutely no luck in games of late. 

 

[Dante_Lockhart]

Start a new one.

 

 

 

 

[Midfielder]

11 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Hey @Midfielder I'm back home and in a hour or two when the kids are fed I'm going to have one massive fm17 sesh.

Want anyone who reads this opinion ..... Do I start again or try and rescue my villa save? 

From memory its about 12 games into the season I have 7 points and I'm bottom but 17th is on about 14 points. 

I like my team but morale couldn't be lower and I'm have absolutely no luck in games of late. 

 

Hey bud, hope the hols were great. As for your Q, that's for you to decide... 12 games in and 7 points is not good but very very recoverable. Interesting situation there is, who's with you / who's against you. Situations like that really show who's who in the team. 

Me though, i am all OCD about the starts. I like a million things done before I even press continue. 

All this talk of starting new ones, I am thinking of starting one too. Might do a Djurgardens IF (of Stockholm) and work my way up to Serie / England Premier League. Maybe. Like Dante Lockheart said though, sometimes you like to start, then get drawn back into your old save. And Terjei said this too indirectly. It is a big effort, starting again. Especially when the time you;ve spent in the other savegame you dont want to turn your back on. With mine a good 11-12 seasons + 

 

[Midfielder]

2 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Start a new one.

 

 

 

 

Maximum "respect" for the Donnie Darko gif

[Midfielder]

On 4/24/2017 at 17:20, Midfielder said:

 

 

Here's one of my screens i put up the other day from my Torino save... on the right hand side there...

I think i would like to do one that starts at Djurgardens, moves somehow to Copenhagen and onto Villa..... in just two jumps... 

That would take a lot of seasons I think! Plus, in games like that, the job you want comes available but "its not the right time" to take it! annoying... then if you dont take it, that person could end up being in the job for years. Hmmmnnnn i think i like the sound of the challenge. Me i will start a new one tonight.... hopefully i dont get fed up at the start. I'll def be using my tactic i posted too! 

Yeah i agree with Dante, start a new one @Villan_of_oz !

 

[Villan_of_oz]

Alright I'm going to keep my villa save for another day. 

I know what I do wrong u get lazy and rush a bit, lose form then rush more. 

I'm going to take on board some of the advice and pay a bit more attention to detail.....

Take to long to explain the reasons but I'm picking between Deportiva La Coruna or Sampdoria. 

[Midfielder]

52 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Alright I'm going to keep my villa save for another day. 

I know what I do wrong u get lazy and rush a bit, lose form then rush more. 

I'm going to take on board some of the advice and pay a bit more attention to detail.....

Take to long to explain the reasons but I'm picking between Deportiva La Coruna or Sampdoria. 

I posted up a staff list a few pages ago, a lot of those would be up for a Spanish / Italian move. Sort that backroom out...

Also, as also said before, Harold Preciado 1.5m-2m AC.... doesnt hurt. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Midfielder

[Raver50032]

#Midfielder - you mentioned a 'work permit affiliate' in an earlier post. Can you explain a bit more about how to organise such a thing. I kind of like the look of the Portuguese - I have three wonderkids from Portugal right now, one signed before the Brexit bullcrap kicked in, and two others loaned from PL clubs. I already have Luton as an affiliate, but Xia won't consider a foreign club - nothing I've seen mentions a 'work permit affiliate.' Do you mean an affiliate club in the country you want to consider signing from? Or is there a specific button to press? I guess that if you are declined, you can't ask the Board again for a specified period of time.

And why do PL Villa still think that 29 year old 2 and a half gold star defenders are still 'quality signings?' They won't improve and won't improve my team surely?

[Dante_Lockhart]

Board Meeting - Networking - Affiliate I think.

During the meeting you can choose what kind, it should say along of the lines of 'to help us avoid work permits'

[Midfielder]

32 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

#Midfielder - you mentioned a 'work permit affiliate' in an earlier post. Can you explain a bit more about how to organise such a thing. I kind of like the look of the Portuguese - I have three wonderkids from Portugal right now, one signed before the Brexit bullcrap kicked in, and two others loaned from PL clubs. I already have Luton as an affiliate, but Xia won't consider a foreign club - nothing I've seen mentions a 'work permit affiliate.' Do you mean an affiliate club in the country you want to consider signing from? Or is there a specific button to press? I guess that if you are declined, you can't ask the Board again for a specified period of time.

And why do PL Villa still think that 29 year old 2 and a half gold star defenders are still 'quality signings?' They won't improve and won't improve my team surely?

Yeah, what Dante said. In the beginning though, with your standing with the board being that you're fresh off the boat, it'll be them picking the clubs to affiliate with IF they allow you the affiliate option. Sell it to them with a good option choice. As that's a variable, they could say no, based on your asnwer and yes, based on another answer. If they say yes, and give you a list of options, usually there's a Czech or Bulgarian one thrown in. However, you might surprise yourself as it could even be a team that plays regularly in the Europa or the Champions League. 

Over time, you'll have good rep with board and they will allow you to choose your affiliate. Or at least suggest who you want to affiliate with. For me, i chose Groningen in Eredivisie and to be fair they played my players throughout all loans. 

Brexit doesnt kick in for a few years, youll have time to enjoy...

Yeah you wont be able to pick a Portuguese one yet bud if it's a new savegame. You have to earn the rights. Also you realise, if they propose a list you can click on the intended club, check out their facilities and training facilities etc if its a split decision on who to pick out of a list. 

Bud, i think the VIlla save def allows a work permit affiliate in the first couple weeks of new save... maybe you picked an unconvincing dialogue line to sell it to him. Ah i see, youre not in season 1. Yeah keep on them bud, theyll allow it. It's one of the first seeds to plant in my opinion because it allows you growth opportunities and diversification of your playing squad and transfer opportunities.

Last sentence of your post, that might be down to the "current ability" of your scouts and their actual stats for "judging player ability " and "judging player potential". Although, at Villa, TOny McAndrew is originally a scout (makes a brilliant coach too) so thats odd if its still throwing inaccurate recommendations out , unless it wasnt McAndrew but some other numpty. 

 

 

 

[Villan_of_oz]

 I couldn't help myself I went into my villa save. I've played 3 games and they pretty much sum things up. 

1st game. Southampton (9th) H. Down 0-2 at half time but a few tweaks and I manage a 2-2 dominated the last 15 minutes a could've won the match 

2nd game. Middlesborough (17th) A. Being away I played cagey as I definitely didn't want to give away the points easily to them. Tight match 0-0. 

3rd game. Watford (9th) H. Dominate the first 35 minutes they score on the counter. Get myself back into the match at 1-1 in the 60th. Start to dominate again, one of my players gets red carded. They go on to score in the 80th and 85th. I had 23 shots 12 on target 2 clear chances and 4 half chances and score 1 goal. 

Now I have west ham (5th) and manu (1st).

All 3 games I played reasonably well I feel and made changes that seemed to work but can't win a game for any money. 

Despite playing well morale is still low and I have 2 really tough matches coming up. I wasn't as bad off as I posted earlier so currently I'm in 19th on 10 points and 17th has 13 points but I just don't see how I can make ground. 

[Dante_Lockhart]

@Villan_of_oz Host a team meeting before the next match to boost morale. Tell them things haven't been going our way but we can turn things around.

[Raver50032]

46 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

 

Last sentence of your post, that might be down to the "current ability" of your scouts and their actual stats for "judging player ability " and "judging player potential". Although, at Villa, TOny McAndrew is originally a scout (makes a brilliant coach too) so thats odd if its still throwing inaccurate recommendations out , unless it wasnt McAndrew but some other numpty. 

 

 

 

Yes - this is my fourth season on this save and my first full season as Villa manager. I have a good relationship with Xia, he's pleased with me so far. I think most of my backroom staff/assistants have all been recycled now from what I would have had as Villa manager from day one. I will look at starting a new save once I've tried a few things out in my current 'P-plates' experience-gainer save I'm in now. I'll be using the detail in your very comprehensive 'what I do' posts to create a start-up checklist to try. Kind of like a borrowed blue-print. It might work, it might not. It's given me food for thought on how to get better grass roots stuff going. Xia seems to like the principles of signing young for the first team and growing from there. If I can develop good young players from within to play in the first team, or sell on to boost finances, then he'll be happier still I guess.

Xia did respond positively the first time I asked him to improve the quality of training facilities at Bodymoor Heath. June 2019, he agreed and I now have excellent facilities (completed October 2019).

I'm regularly giving Justin Edinburgh an ear-bashing at Luton for not playing my loanees in the position I specified. I don't want to call them back from loan, but I keep threatening to pull them back to Villa.

One other point please - In one of your posts you mention benchmark skill ratings.

--

150 PA and above and by the time they are 18, i want them to be 100 CA (current ability) 120 by 19 if poss but min of 130 by 21, but the true greats, you see wonderkids of 140 CA by 18 and those are the true greats.

--

I get 'potential ability' and 'current ability.' But which stats do you use to get your combined totals? Are they the main stats highlighted for each natural role? What stats are you adding up on an 18 year old player to get '150?'

Edited April 27, 2017 by Raver50032

[villa4europe]

15 hours ago, abdomlahor said:

I hate the current work permit system

is this FM or real life

we cant sign a croatian goalkeeper and pay him £10k a week because the goalkeeper who isnt good enough for man utd, never will be good enough for man utd but will milk that £20k a week man utd contract for as long as he possibly can and when of course the penny drops that he isnt good enough for man utd it will of course be because of the pesky foreigner they play instead that stunted his development

and thats before you get in to the realms of who they do let in to this country whilst not letting in a kid who will pay (lazy tax calculation) £260k a year in tax

safe to say it boils my piss...

as for FM...I've stopped doing it where i buy them anyway and then farm them out, current game where im villa (ive done a lot of saves this year) got villa promoted, went to sign pavon...no work permit...signed for Juve, went to sign ascaibar...no work permit...signed for madrid 

[Midfielder]

31 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

Yes - this is my fourth season on this save and my first full season as Villa manager. I have a good relationship with Xia, he's pleased with me so far. I think most of my backroom staff/assistants have all been recycled now from what I would have had as Villa manager from day one. I will look at starting a new save once I've tried a few things out in my current 'P-plates' experience-gainer save I'm in now. I'll be using the detail in your very comprehensive 'what I do' posts to create a start-up checklist to try. Kind of like a borrowed blue-print. It might work, it might not. It's given me food for thought on how to get better grass roots stuff going. Xia seems to like the principles of signing young for the first team and growing from there. If I can develop good young players from within to play in the first team, or sell on to boost finances, then he'll be happier still I guess.

Xia did respond positively the first time I asked him to improve the quality of training facilities at Bodymoor Heath. June 2019, he agreed and I now have excellent facilities (completed October 2019).

I'm regularly giving Justin Edinburgh an ear-bashing at Luton for not playing my loanees in the position I specified. I don't want to call them back from loan, but I keep threatening to pull them back to Villa.

One other point please - In one of your posts you mention benchmark skill ratings.

--

150 PA and above and by the time they are 18, i want them to be 100 CA (current ability) 120 by 19 if poss but min of 130 by 21, but the true greats, you see wonderkids of 140 CA by 18 and those are the true greats.

--

I get 'potential ability' and 'current ability.' But which stats do you use to get your combined totals? Are they the main stats highlighted for each natural role? What stats are you adding up on an 18 year old player to get '150?'

yeah it might not bud! help that is, but works for me! 

Mate if your loanees arent playing as specified... 1- did you specify this at the dawn of the loan? the pos i mean. if not, justin can play them where he bloody well likes ;o) 2- yeah dont be too put off by that IF hes still getting games, as it doesnt hurt to expand positions IF they are ones you can utilise, might go there orange and come back green in that pos

Your other point there, they're just my opinion on where i want from youth. 

I am not adding up any stats , they are game-engine generated. Opinion varies but 130+ is seen as sort of bottom of the Premier League ish... 150+ will be International quality... hard to explain

Basically these are engine recognised figures that the game works from internally. There is Genie scout available from the legendary Eugene Trabanovsky, a Ukranian programmer thats been around for years. Many see use of Genie Scout as cheating. It is. Why, because its showing you in-game data that is not otherwise accessible in the game. However, I dont use it for every single thing i do, but I do use it, I dont hide it. Me, i have a very scientific mind and for me it floats my boat. As in, developmentally, i like to track the progress of players i have purchased and how they are progressing. 

Also in defence of that, having been an FM'er of 25+ years, a veteran, with life getting in the way of playing... it's my right! as is for anyone to play it how they want. I usually donate to Eugene but you can get it for free. But use of it, can entirely spoil the game experience. So i would steer clear! As you have access to another side of info. I have never used any editor though nor is Scout an editor.

With that said, to now answer your q:

Current ability + potential ability are two figures for which the game does not display. In effect, each player has a development ceiling. Staff, less so. Staff PA can change, whereas player PA doesnt.

So I mentioned 150, for PA. That reference, analogises that my minimum standard of player in the future are those that would effectively be top Serie A players / potentially internation. So along the way, players might not make the grade. The ages for which players CA grows almost grinds to a halt at 24, sure itll increase a slight but, but see that as the cut off. the actual main periods a player "grows" is 16-19... in my opinion. Yes, yes, their CA will increase after, but.... in my opinion, you have to hit them between 16-19. and by 19 i want them first team considerable. 

Sorry, long reply, at work. Hope some of that makes sense! Scout usage can be a bad thing, but not always. I find the in-game scouting system to be awful at times, regardless of if you are Barcelona or Whitehawk FC. 

[Raver50032]

Thanks MF... appreciate all of the time (work or otherwise) that you have put into this thread over the last few days. I'm at work too, but it's a slow day here at the moment.

I already 'cheat' somewhat with the in game settings I choose - I opt to show all the stats of a player after the initial scout visit. I think default, it won't show you all the stats until the scout has seen the player a couple of times?

For staff, I interpret a decent stat to be 15 or above... Is that too low a benchmark?

 

[Dante_Lockhart]

I NEVER play with the players stats hidden. Sod that for a bag of chips.

[Villan_of_oz]

Next 3 games 

West ham (A) 2 nil down at half time finished 2-2

Manu (H) 1-1 HT 2-2 FT. Dominated the team who are top. 

Bournemouth (A) 2 nil down at half time finished 2-2

This is very frustrating to say the least. I'm on 13 pts, 17th is on 16 pts