The Rémi Garde thread

[terrytini]

12 minutes ago, PaulC said:

When Remi took over we were 4 pts adrift of relegation and now we are 10 pts adrift. I'm pretty sure thats the reason no money has been spent in January, particularly after the amount of signings we made in the summer. Hopefully Remi will be given some funds next summer in preparation for our bid to get out of the championship. 

Well I wont repeat all I said above but one extra thing puzzles me here .........you think (wrongly IMO that 'the reason' no money - NONE ! - has been spent is because we are further adrift now than when Remi took over ?

Yet you think they will give him funds next summer - by which time we won't be points adrift we will be a whole League adrift !

So why would they either keep him, or if they did, give him money, if not now ?

Its much simpler, and they are, to coin a phrase, "hiding in clear sight"....they have explicity said "no" to money.

[terrytini]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

or did we go after unrealistic targets.....these are the things we need to know, before targeting our vitriol.

!

Okay you are only asking "did we.." but really ?  Does even one bit of you think Garde was asking for Messi or Ronaldo ? Did he look like, or allude to, that being the problem ?

Like every year, there were players ready to move, all the Clubs knew who, and they've moved.  Nobody has moved that would be considered unrealistic have they ?  One or two at most.  They are only unrealistic because our own policy has made them unrealistic.

My vitriol is targeted and I'm very comfortable with who it is targeted at !

[PaulC]

7 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Well I wont repeat all I said above but one extra thing puzzles me here .........you think (wrongly IMO that 'the reason' no money - NONE ! - has been spent is because we are further adrift now than when Remi took over ?

Yet you think they will give him funds next summer - by which time we won't be points adrift we will be a whole League adrift !

So why would they either keep him, or if they did, give him money, if not now ?

Its much simpler, and they are, to coin a phrase, "hiding in clear sight"....they have explicity said "no" to money.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread. We are so far adrift they have accepted the inevitability of relegation. If we were still 4 pts adrift I think funds would have been found. I don't know whether they will stick with Garde, I somehow feel he will walk with his reputation somewhat tainted.

[Butterfingers]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Whilst I have long thought staying up unlikely, we are not so far behind Newcastle to get the differences in outlook between their Board and ours. And although I share your view that Garde hasn't produced a lot they appointed him, they have confirmed he will stay on as Manager, how can they then not back him ?

Lost cause ? It is a fundamental rule in sport that you don't give up, just in case.

And really, you think if we'd been 'competitive' things would've been different ?  How much different ?

And the war chest bit ?  That's funny.  You really think they are putting together a 'war chest' ?

And if they were, who do you think they are waiting for ?  If they were aiming to come back up, some Premier League players would have been a wise move.  Do you think we have more chance of getting them now, or in the summer following relegation (when it is surely liklely we will lose at least as much quality as comes in anyway) ?

Do you not think that not spending is more likely merely a continuation of the philosophy espoused by Hollis since he arrived  - "we spent money in the summer and look where we are"....." we are not in this position because of money" etc.

Well I do.  I think it is very convenient indeed for the Board to have people thinking "it would have been a waste of money".  Also, finally, why would it have to be "throwing money" which alludes to a lot.  Couldn't we have got a couple of the loans we were looking at, and bought a few players for next year, and so on. 

But nothing? Nothing at all ? And people can still rationalise that ?

 

I'm not as convinced as you that Garde will stay on as manager. I do believe however that we're miles away from Newcastle-Out of 15 games left, we need to win more than half of them. I don't believe the money that Newcastle spent, or the players they have bought in would win us those 8 games-It might mean the difference of circa 4 points that will keep Newcastle up though.

Nobody is saying we should give up-My feeling is that the money will be better invested in the summer. January is a traditionally high priced time to purchase players

As for things being different if we'd have been in Newcastles position-Who knows? It certainly seems that others are prepared to throw millions in to safeguard even more millions from TV revenues.

Again, with the "war chest"-Lets wait and see. Players are going to leave, parachute payments are going to come in. We ought to be able to compete with anyone in the championship. Who are we waiting for? A new manager maybe? Players who want to commit to the club in the new plan/project of regaining PL status. It makes no business sense for Lerner to keep the club in the championship-It will cost him at least as much, if not more to sustain it.

We tried for a striker-He turned us down. We tried for a keeper and his permit was refused, so don't throw the "nothing? nothing at all card" down-It won't work.

[DCJonah]

 

It makes no business sense for Lerner to keep the club in the championship

I keep reading similar posts. It makes no business sense for Lerner to run us into the ground and relegate us from the premier league, but he's done it anyway. I can't believe people still put their hopes in Lerner's supposed business sense. 

[terrytini]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

That line from Remi,for me, is a very significant point.

It kinda crystalises the frustration of all concerned with the club.

bit of a euphemism " big results"......I would have said......with out any results whatsoever.

I think he had to say that, but I don't think he agrees with it, at least I hope he doesn't.

My lad stopped doing the lottery because he had played it a lot and still not won.  I tried to explain that's because to be sure of winning, the type of money he was spending, whilst a lot to him, was not enough to even get close to guarantees, and he'd need a lot of luck.

We've spent money, yes. I'm not interested in net spend, but real spend, and for the amount of seasons we've been here with Lerner it isn't a lot.  And a lot of it was a long time ago.  But we DID get results from that spending,....... we stayed up!!....., we stayed in the Top 17 sides, despite managerial upheavals and whatever the hell Hollis means when he talks about the "other things" that are so critical. But its big boys League, big boys rules, spending a lot is essential for any sort of medium term/long term progression, and the absence of progression is regression, and that's what we've had. You have to spend, then spend, then when you have spent enough, spend.

Or you have to be honest, tell the fans you are not interested in progression, and let them choose whether to watch.

And every single Club that has failed to invest heavily and regularly, ends up flirting with relegation.

Scouting would have helped. Fergie would have helped.  But only to the same degree me and the missus buying my lad some extra tickets would've helped.  Without big investment, you are absolutely asking to be in and around the bottom half, and stats are such that that means permanent relegation battles until you drop.

We never came close to spending the kind of money that would pull us away from there, and the only time we really invested, we got 6/6/6. 

How can anyone (not saying you are) suggest that the spending for Lambert was enough, or provided consistently enough ? One simple example - Bennet when Lambert wanted that Ipswich guy (begins with C( who now plays for West Ham. The Swansea midfielder...can't remember much with a fuzzled brain, but it was all make do and mend stuff.

[Blasterpocket68]

7 minutes ago, Butterfingers said:

I'm not as convinced as you that Garde will stay on as manager. I do believe however that we're miles away from Newcastle-Out of 15 games left, we need to win more than half of them. I don't believe the money that Newcastle spent, or the players they have bought in would win us those 8 games-It might mean the difference of circa 4 points that will keep Newcastle up though.

Nobody is saying we should give up-My feeling is that the money will be better invested in the summer. January is a traditionally high priced time to purchase players

As for things being different if we'd have been in Newcastles position-Who knows? It certainly seems that others are prepared to throw millions in to safeguard even more millions from TV revenues.

Again, with the "war chest"-Lets wait and see. Players are going to leave, parachute payments are going to come in. We ought to be able to compete with anyone in the championship. Who are we waiting for? A new manager maybe? Players who want to commit to the club in the new plan/project of regaining PL status. It makes no business sense for Lerner to keep the club in the championship-It will cost him at least as much, if not more to sustain it.

We tried for a striker-He turned us down. We tried for a keeper and his permit was refused, so don't throw the "nothing? nothing at all card" down-It won't work.

Oh ok

 

 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, terrytini said:

!

Okay you are only asking "did we.." but really ?  Does even one bit of you think Garde was asking for Messi or Ronaldo ? Did he look like, or allude to, that being the problem ?

Like every year, there were players ready to move, all the Clubs knew who, and they've moved.  Nobody has moved that would be considered unrealistic have they ?  One or two at most.  They are only unrealistic because our own policy has made them unrealistic.

My vitriol is targeted and I'm very comfortable with who it is targeted at !

I wish I was as sure as you are.

to quote messi and Ronaldo is hyperbole of the highest order.....that's not an arena we will ever be in......ever.

To build a football team, they don't have to be star names, but they need to blend and be able to do the basics and have some form of method.

Bournemouth have illustrated how it can be done and so have Watford.

Those clubs have signed players our fan base would laugh at in a derogatory fashion, but their management teams have integrated them.

Over the years......We have been paying over the odds in terms of fee's and wages for players we gave not managed to get any value from and as opposed to a team we have just made a patch work quilt of individuals who are only interested in using villa as a stepping stone.....the irony is in most cases they are not even good enough to play for us never mind the upper half.

signing the wrong players for me has been more of an issue than not spending enough money.

If anyone thinks the summer was a good window for us.....I'll be 

damned.

ps what Bournemouth and Watford have done is nothing new.....we have done it in the past.....before Randy's so called money......we had to.

[Butterfingers]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

 

I keep reading similar posts. It makes no business sense for Lerner to run us into the ground and relegate us from the premier league, but he's done it anyway. I can't believe people still put their hopes in Lerner's supposed business sense. 

Do you think that business sense is needed to understand this?

[Butterfingers]

4 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

Oh ok

 

 

Oh ok what?

[dudevillaisnice]

Again, with the "war chest"-Lets wait and see. Players are going to leave, parachute payments are going to come in. We ought to be able to compete with anyone in the championship. Who are we waiting for? A new manager maybe? Players who want to commit to the club in the new plan/project of regaining PL status. It makes no business sense for Lerner to keep the club in the championship-It will cost him at least as much, if not more to sustain it.

Which players are going to leave and how much will we get for them? Parachute payments; will we actually use this money or will it go towards paying off debt or something else?

We can't compete with Boro with some of the money they have spent and they are in the championship whilst we are still in the premier league. I am 100% sure even if we were 3 points clear of the bottom three we wouldn't have made a signing like Rhodes for example based purely on the past few shambolic seasons.

I think people are in for a shock next season personally.

 

[terrytini]

The nothing at all card does work, we have bought nothing at all.  I don't know why some find it easier to believe nobody would come, than to believe what our own guy has virtually said out loud, that we don't want to buy !

And I'm not at all sure Garde will stay, or that he should, but Hollis HAS said he definitely wont sack him. So my point is, why in your view would they not back him now because our position is worse,, if they will later when by definition it will be far worse ?

As for it not making business sense for Lerner to keep us in the Championship....You must be the only person left that thinks he HAS any !!

And anyway, why wouldn't it make business sense.  Depends what his goal is.  I hear some say he loses money on us - in that case it would make business sense for him to shut us down,(or run at as low a level as possible) not invest to go back up. And what would be his point in us going back up, since he doesn't want to commit to the levels of spending he would need  to keep us up ? To attract a buyer ?  He has seen that Premier League status hasn't achieved that.

So why a war chest ?  Why a need to go up ?

I just don't see it.

[Blasterpocket68]

3 minutes ago, Butterfingers said:

Oh ok what?

Just don't agree ok

[terrytini]

13 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

 

I keep reading similar posts. It makes no business sense for Lerner to run us into the ground and relegate us from the premier league, but he's done it anyway. I can't believe people still put their hopes in Lerner's supposed business sense. 

Out of likes, but yup, this.

Nothing is baffling me more than this.

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

9 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

Boy are you living a dream or what ?!

If the club wont spend money to try to stay up what makes you think they will spend money to get promoted ? If/when we get promoted we start the season bottom of the PL, which means we get to be exactly where we are now....except that we have a few championship players in our squad,so where is the money going to come from to buy premier league players ?! so that we can move up from the bottom of the league.

 

We already have a Championship team and some decent Championship players.
Depending on which players stay we'll still have a core of lower league players and getting promoted, hopefully, will let us cut the rest of the dead wood. 

A good championship player costs you £7million+, that's not too far from the PL. We may need a whole new team to get what Garde wants, players who actually think about and not just play football.

Ingram has made a good point, we are creating chances and an average proper striker would be a real help, though I believe our luck has run out. I think other clubs will get enough points even if we go on a run.

[Butterfingers]

6 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said:

 

 

Which players are going to leave and how much will we get for them? Parachute payments; will we actually use this money or will it go towards paying off debt or something else?

We can't compete with Boro with some of the money they have spent and they are in the championship whilst we are still in the premier league. I am 100% sure even if we were 3 points clear of the bottom three we wouldn't have made a signing like Rhodes for example based purely on the past few shambolic seasons.

I think people are in for a shock next season personally.

 

Why are you asking me such silly questions?

How am I suppose to know who will leave and for how much?

Every time a side goes down, players leave-Work it out for yourself

[dudevillaisnice]

Khazri apparently wanted to join; board didn't finance the move.

Remi Garde will consider his future in the summer after Aston Villa failed to make a single signing.

Garde is ready to review his position as manager at the end of the season following a tortuous experience of the January transfer window, in which he missed out on at least five targets.

Villa were the only club in the Premier League’s bottom six not to bring in a new signing, with deals for Seydou Doumbia, Wahbi Khazri, Mathieu Debuchy and Lovre Kalinic all falling through.

Garde was promised funds to strengthen his squad during the talks before his appointment in November but was left frustrated after Villa’s board declined to spend when the transfer window opened.

The Frenchman had been negotiating a deal for Roma striker Doumbia for weeks but saw the Ivorian join Newcastle on loan, even though Villa had offered a greater loan fee.

But his frustration only grew when Villa allegedly refused to spend £8million on Bordeaux winger Khazri, even though he was happy to join. Khazri subsequently joined relegation rivals Sunderland.

Garde recognised the difficulties in attracting players to a club bottom of the league but is understood to feel bitterly disappointed that there was an apparent reluctance to back him.

Villa have only won twice in the league this season and it is believed results over the Christmas period – including defeats at Norwich and Sunderland – forced a rethink in the club’s January transfer policy.

While Garde remains committed to Villa for the season, he is waiting to discover how much finance will be made available over the summer, with the Midlanders almost certain to start the campaign in the Championship.

When asked about the board’s position on finance for signings, Garde said: “It was not as clear as maybe when I signed but it’s something that I don’t want to discuss too much.

ve not been here a long time enough to assess the short history of this football club but I understand also that at one point you cannot say we have not been successful as we have wanted and we still carry on doing the same things.

“Some people have to be brave enough to say what have we done wrong in the past and what should be do now to stop that and to be better, maybe not the next months but the next season or in two or three years.

“It would be unfair to say it is the fault of one or two persons. I think Aston Villa is a football club with players, a manager, the board, the chairman, the owner and, as far as I know, we are all in the same boat - and I’m trying to guide this boat as best as possible.”

Villa remain ten points adrift of safety and face a trip to West Ham on Tuesday night.

 

Remi Garde to consider Aston Villa future after failing to make a single signing

 

 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I think he had to say that, but I don't think he agrees with it, at least I hope he doesn't.

My lad stopped doing the lottery because he had played it a lot and still not won.  I tried to explain that's because to be sure of winning, the type of money he was spending, whilst a lot to him, was not enough to even get close to guarantees, and he'd need a lot of luck.

We've spent money, yes. I'm not interested in net spend, but real spend, and for the amount of seasons we've been here with Lerner it isn't a lot.  And a lot of it was a long time ago.  But we DID get results from that spending,....... we stayed up!!....., we stayed in the Top 17 sides, despite managerial upheavals and whatever the hell Hollis means when he talks about the "other things" that are so critical. But its big boys League, big boys rules, spending a lot is essential for any sort of medium term/long term progression, and the absence of progression is regression, and that's what we've had. You have to spend, then spend, then when you have spent enough, spend.

Or you have to be honest, tell the fans you are not interested in progression, and let them choose whether to watch.

And every single Club that has failed to invest heavily and regularly, ends up flirting with relegation.

Scouting would have helped. Fergie would have helped.  But only to the same degree me and the missus buying my lad some extra tickets would've helped.  Without big investment, you are absolutely asking to be in and around the bottom half, and stats are such that that means permanent relegation battles until you drop.

We never came close to spending the kind of money that would pull us away from there, and the only time we really invested, we got 6/6/6. 

How can anyone (not saying you are) suggest that the spending for Lambert was enough, or provided consistently enough ? One simple example - Bennet when Lambert wanted that Ipswich guy (begins with C( who now plays for West Ham. The Swansea midfielder...can't remember much with a fuzzled brain, but it was all make do and mend stuff.

We signed 4 French lads for c40 mill

we sign a Spanish lad for 7 mill.....and he is no where near ready, if he ever will be.

in all honesty, who can keep funding players to that tune and get little return

we have done it with Bent/Davies/NRC/Cuellar/Warnock and more all fully amortised

I thought we did well to get 32mill for Benteke......and what do we do with that opportunity?

I'm sorry Terry....I'm just not convinced.....I look around the league and see better value at other clubs.

[Blasterpocket68]

2 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

We already have a Championship team and some decent Championship players.
Depending on which players stay we'll still have a core of lower league players and getting promoted, hopefully, will let us cut the rest of the dead wood. 

A good championship player costs you £7million+, that's not too far from the PL. We may need a whole new team to get what Garde wants, players who actually think about and not just play football.

Ingram has made a good point, we are creating chances and an average proper striker would be a real help, though I believe our luck has run out. I think other clubs will get enough points even if we go on a run.

We have an owner who just wants the Business (our club) to run its self ! We have a manager inexperienced in this leauge and most certainly the championship who wants to play possession  tippy tappy football minus the footballers!

We have a board who want to buy him cheap foreign imports to play . None of this will see up promoted next year or the year after. 

We need a total clear out from TOP to BOTTOM (no pun intended) before we as villa fans will see any improvement!

This is now I'm afraid a total Cluster Fu@@@@@

[jacketspuds]

Can't think of another manager who has come in quite some time before the January window, and then not given the necessary funds to build a squad that he can actually work with. The club is just pathetic and I hope Remi Garde gets out before he is blamed for some of this mess.