Is european welfare society/culture making people soft/passive/lazy?

[Jarpie]

I was wondering is anyone else in here thinking that european welfare society/socities might be gradually making european peole soft and/or lazy? At least parts of it. In Finland I've seen quite a many young people who don't have any initiative, common sense and are utterly clueless how to function in society.

Thank god not all young people are like that, but way too many. We have tens of thousands youths without anykind of job or even proper profession/education, and they just sit at their homes and collect benefits, because they've been taught that the state (and/or parents) will take care of them no matter what, I wonder if this is happening elsewhere in the europe, or is it just in Finland?

 

[MakemineVanilla]

It's not the benefits - they are all addicted to playing Angry Birds. 

[StefanAVFC]

No.

[Rodders]

lack of jobs, lack of interesting jobs added to that and we live in luxury, even those earning very little can travel reasonably regularly and consume or access any culture they want to for free, there's not a great deal of impetus to change, we can be easily satisfied, and are less urgent. Not to do with the welfare state, mind.

[ender4]

yes to the OP, and i think thats normal.

The main drivers to push someone are survival needs - food, water, shelter, health. 

Europe has 99.99% eliminated those needs, so people don't need to fight to survive.

Nowadays its more about what you would like to achieve - that doesn't have the same impetus, so people become content in their lives and the drive disappears.

 

 

 

[Ikantcpell]

Sweden is full of them, they dont want to work, i meet alot of youths in my job, and some of them would rather go to prison than work a 9 to 5 job.

But they are not very bright, they sit around, unwashed in their palestine scarfs,do their drugs and complain about the working people paying to little tax.

People have no respect for them or their opinion.

[Jarpie]

lack of jobs, lack of interesting jobs added to that and we live in luxury, even those earning very little can travel reasonably regularly and consume or access any culture they want to for free, there's not a great deal of impetus to change, we can be easily satisfied, and are less urgent. Not to do with the welfare state, mind.

I think it's combination of many things, partly fault of the parents who don't teach their kids to be self-sufficient, to have an initiative or instill them with the work ethic, for the lack of the better word, and our society/socities doesn't encourage or push people enough to get "activated", unless they are so inclined.

I think it does have at least partly to do with the welfare state, I used to be for the benefit-system we have now, but I've started to think that it at least needs some retooling because certain, and increasing amount of people would rather sit on benefits than get a proper, unglamorous, job. because they'd get just couple hundred more by working than sitting on their asses. 

yes to the OP, and i think thats normal.

The main drivers to push someone are survival needs - food, water, shelter, health. 

Europe has 99.99% eliminated those needs, so people don't need to fight to survive.

Nowadays its more about what you would like to achieve - that doesn't have the same impetus, so people become content in their lives and the drive disappears.

But my point was that they don't have -any- ambitions, they'd rather just sit at their homes than to do something meaningful with their lives. There was news item in finnish newspaper that we have 58 000 youths outside of any work or education, to give context for that number, our population is 5,4 million, so a bit over 1% of our total population, not just youths, is outside of the education or work.

I did some googling, and apparently one unemployed person costs finland 18 000 - 20 000 euros, so those 58 000 youths costs finland 1 044 000 000 euros per year, if the figures are right, that's not a small sum of money, if we'd get half of those people working, not only we'd save 500 million euros, but they'd also bring in much needed taxes.

Education is free in finland, across all the levels, and students even get the student benefits, so I have hard time accepting that it should be considered normal that they don't want to even study a good paying profession. I could understand it at least a bit if we'd have tuition fees and the youths couldn't afford to pay them, but I find not studying even for free incomprehensible.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Jarpie

[MakemineVanilla]

Although not altogether desirable, compared with the Stakhanovite movement and Strength Through Joy, I think sitting on your arse is definitely the better alternative.

Edited September 11, 2015 by MakemineVanilla

[darrenm]

Which is why I have this ideal about exercise. I think a panacea for most of modern society's ills is lots of exercise.

When people strive for better athletic performance, they have drive in their entire outlook on life.

I think all of government and society should be based around being fit, active and healthy. e.g. http://www.healthandfitnessparty.org.uk/

[MakemineVanilla]

Which is why I have this ideal about exercise. I think a panacea for most of modern society's ills is lots of exercise.

When people strive for better athletic performance, they have drive in their entire outlook on life.

I think all of government and society should be based around being fit, active and healthy. e.g. http://www.healthandfitnessparty.org.uk/

All well and good but in my experience you can always spot the fitness fanatic at work; he's the guy asleep at his desk. 

[Jarpie]

Although not altogether desirable, compared with the Stakhanovite movement and Strength Through Joy, I think sitting on your arse is definitely the better alternative.

Not sure were you serious or not, but I don't think I called for anything like that.

[villa4europe]

i think the idolisation of people who have no discernible talents or skills is partly to blame, plague of modern society

[AshVilla]

Most young people today expect everything to be given to them and not work for it

 

 

[Marka Ragnos]

I was wondering is anyone else in here thinking that european welfare society/socities might be gradually making european peole soft and/or lazy?

 

What's wrong with being soft and lazy in Europe? 

Europe has no business sharing its "wisdom" about work and character. The world has heard enough. (The slogan below, at the entrance to Auschwitz, reads "WORK MAKES YOU FREE.")

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Plastic Man

[StefanAVFC]

Most young people today expect everything to be given to them and not work for it

 

 

Nonsense.

Same recycled line that every generation says about the generation below them.

Edited September 11, 2015 by StefanAVFC

[ender4]

Most young people today expect everything to be given to them and not work for it

 

 

and if everything is given to 'them', then why would they expect anything different?

[ender4]

Also, i read an article (on the BBC?) saying how we were now in the post-work era.

Something like 80% of the population of the world is under-utilised / under-worked or don't work. 

Automation and technology has made this possible, and so already people are changing their lifestyle to accommodate the post-work era.

 

[Jarpie]

Also, i read an article (on the BBC?) saying how we were now in the post-work era.

Something like 80% of the population of the world is under-utilised / under-worked or don't work. 

Automation and technology has made this possible, and so already people are changing their lifestyle to accommodate the post-work era.

Can you find me a link to that article? Could be interesting read.

[MakemineVanilla]

Although not altogether desirable, compared with the Stakhanovite movement and Strength Through Joy, I think sitting on your arse is definitely the better alternative.

Not sure were you serious or not, but I don't think I called for anything like that.

I was suggesting that the present system allows people the freedom to opt out if they so wish, where other systems had no such freedoms.

Whether they use that freedom wisely is another question entirely but whatever they do with their time, it can't really bring any less dignity to their lives than making minimum wage in a McJob.

I know that Finland has a particular problem with youth unemployment (24%) compared with the UK's (14%), but it does look like the government made a decision based on cost when they raised retirement age to 65.

Presumably they did this because paying benefits to young people is cheaper than paying pensions to old people.

But ultimately if the government want young people to work they need to incentivise them not punish them, like they do for corporate tax-payers.

I was wondering is anyone else in here thinking that european welfare society/socities might be gradually making european peole soft and/or lazy?

I think the 'soft and/or lazy' hints at social Darwinism, which suggested the need for authoritarian systems.

 

 

 

 

 

[villa4europe]

i think the idolisation of people who have no discernible talents or skills is partly to blame, plague of modern society

I was leaving the office so couldn't put a full reply

No doubt some of you will say celebrity and it girls and stuff like that has always existed, what I mean is how diluted the reality TV market has become and how losers let alone winners have expanded across pretty much all forms of media, you don't have to win anything to be set for life you just have to get on the show, that's then developed in to TOWIE and Geordie shore and the like, people getting filmed and becoming famous for living the exact same life that the majority of yoof live, then social media giving people the platform to try and launch themselves, the likes of dapper laughs, it's basically free self publicity, then the YouTube millionaires, a guy worth how many millions because he talks over computer games?

It's all stuff that absolutely anyone can do, which IMO has a negative impact on society, the life of the rich and famous is no longer exclusive, it appears incredibly easy, all you need is luck...that for me gives us a younger generation who have a distorted view on their future

Doing career days at work trying to get youngsters in to construction either in an apprenticeship or on a work placement degree, the amount of 15/16 year olds I speak to that think they're going to have a career in computer programming and make an app that will make them a millionaire...

I don't necessarily agree that the yoof want everything given to them but I would say they definitely don't has any sense of time, they don't seem to be planning for what they will be doing for the next 40 years, it seems to be a case of how to get in, get to the top and get out and be done by their mid thirties, running before they can walk