The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[dAVe80]

2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Have I missed something? 

[Mantis]

5 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Genuine question, which of the things Corbyn has said he want to do, are you against? I assume you're a Labour supporter (or at least have voted Labour in the past), so what is it exactly about his politics you don't like? To clarify I'm not talking about Corbyn, but rather what he and his supporters to stand for. 

No. Don't know what gave you that impression? I do have sympathy for the Labour moderates though because any government Labour or Conservative needs credible opposition.

[dAVe80]

Just now, Mantis said:

No. Don't know what gave you that impression? I do have sympathy for the Labour moderates though because any government Labour or Conservative needs credible opposition.

Ah my mistake. Explains a lot!  It's just you have a lot of opinions on the party (not that there's a problem with that), I assumed you were a supporter. 

[Chindie]

6 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Have I missed something? 

One of the most Tory members of the site. Laughably so.

[tonyh29]

53 minutes ago, Awol said:

Clearly the people who chose Corbyn we're "low information voters" who didn't really understand what they were voting for.

While I respect this decision they should either be forced to vote again or be ignored completely. 

you naughty boy 

[Mantis]

13 minutes ago, Chindie said:

One of the most Tory members of the site. Laughably so.

How can you come to that conclusion? I don't even post that often in here that often.

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, Mantis said:

How can you come to that conclusion? I don't even post that often in here that often.

Because it's been fairly clear that you are a pretty staunch Tory for some time. If you had to push most off topic posters into a bin of Labour or Tory to sort the site you'd be one of the first to put in the Tory bin. I just thought it was funny anyone would think you'd ever support Labour.

Anyway, back on topic... Corbyn in again. I give it a fortnight at most before the knives are back out. Any bets on the next leadership push? Will it follow inevitable failure on a grand stage, some horrendous scandal which I'm sure someone is digging for right now, or will they just get the pitchforks and flaming torches out to march on Islington North?

[Mantis]

30 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Because it's been fairly clear that you are a pretty staunch Tory for some time. If you had to push most off topic posters into a bin of Labour or Tory to sort the site you'd be one of the first to put in the Tory bin. I just thought it was funny anyone would think you'd ever support Labour.

Anyway, back on topic... Corbyn in again. I give it a fortnight at most before the knives are back out. Any bets on the next leadership push? Will it follow inevitable failure on a grand stage, some horrendous scandal which I'm sure someone is digging for right now, or will they just get the pitchforks and flaming torches out to march on Islington North?

I think there are a lot more Tory voters here than some might think actually. You've pegged me as one of the staunches Tories here but even I only post in this thread occasionally.

Anyway, I may have voted Conservative at the last election but I still think the government needs credible opposition and Labour under Corbyn will never be able to provide that regardless of how many of his MPs support him or how friendly the media are towards him.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Mantis

[blandy]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

You can reach out to the electorate, and you can have a positive influence on your party and your constituency, but if you're in opposition to it's values, the values of its leadership and the values of its members then you're going to need to have a bit of a think on what on earth you're doing here.

You can decline to reach out to the electorate of the country, instead espousing fantasy economics and fantasy policies and remain forever out of power and you're going to need to have a bit of a think on what on earth you're doing here. Still if it keeps the converted happy....

The shame of it is that when the country (as Mantis suggests) really really needs a strong opposition, Labour & Corbyn have gone off to la la land. ( Was going to say AWOL, but y'now..).

Labour as a party has turned from one I'd vote for to one I currently absolutely detest and despair of. They've basically abandoned a huge chunk of just normal people to the whims of the piggin' tories due to incompetence, in fighting, arrogance, and rank stupidity.

[OutByEaster?]

10 minutes ago, blandy said:

Labour as a party has turned from one I'd vote for to one I currently absolutely detest and despair of. They've basically abandoned a huge chunk of just normal people to the whims of the piggin' tories due to incompetence, in fighting, arrogance, and rank stupidity.

Labour as a party has turned from one I absolutely detested and despaired of to one I'd vote for. They've basically abandoned a huge chunk of piggin Tory dogma, in fighting, arrogance, and rank stupidity in order to try to reconnect with normal people.

We're back to a democracy with more than one ideology. I for one welcome that.

 

[Mantis]

18 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Labour as a party has turned from one I absolutely detested and despaired of to one I'd vote for. They've basically abandoned a huge chunk of piggin Tory dogma, in fighting, arrogance, and rank stupidity in order to try to reconnect with normal people.

We're back to a democracy with more than one ideology. I for one welcome that.

 

For every voter like you though there are two who are going the other way. I can see why many think Blair went too far in aping the Conservatives but at the same time things like trying to appeal to centrist voters and emphasising competence are not (or should not) be exclusively Tory values.

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, Mantis said:

For every voter like you though there are two who are going the other way. I can see why many think Blair went too far in aping the Conservatives but at the same time things like trying to appeal to centrist voters and emphasising competence are not (or should not) be exclusively Tory values.

I'm not sure I agree with the first part of your sentence - there are voters going in both directions I think, but if the message can get out to people, I think the policies are common sense and can win votes. I see Corbyn as a centrist politician - the country has spent so long drifting towards this idea that the corporate right wing is the middle ground that we've become skewed in our view.

[Mantis]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure I agree with the first part of your sentence - there are voters going in both directions I think, but if the message can get out to people, I think the policies are common sense and can win votes. I see Corbyn as a centrist politician - the country has spent so long drifting towards this idea that the corporate right wing is the middle ground that we've become skewed in our view.

On what planet is Corbyn centrist? How can he be centrist if many of his views do not chime with much of the public? Yes the majority agree with stuff like rail nationalisation but his views on things like immigration, government spending and foreign affairs are so far away from most voters.

Ironically, his views on the EU are one of the few areas where he's more in touch with the public than most Labour MPs.

[Chindie]

'The Centre' has nothing to do with popularity in the voting public. If that was the case, in the UK at least, the Centre would actually be somewhat Right.

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, Mantis said:

On what planet is Corbyn centrist? How can he be centrist if many of his views do not chime with much of the public? Yes the majority agree with stuff like rail nationalisation but his views on things like immigration, government spending and foreign affairs are so far away from most voters.

There's a lot of support for his policies in these areas where people are permitted to understand them - ten years of front page scaremongering by the editors of the Mail and the Express have skewed public perception on immigration tremendously - but the public don't naturally share the values of those people, Corbyn's strength is that his policies align with how people think - his weakness is that they're put to those people through a mainstream media that hates both him and to an extent its readership.

 

[Mantis]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

There's a lot of support for his policies in these areas where people are permitted to understand them - ten years of front page scaremongering by the editors of the Mail and the Express have skewed public perception on immigration tremendously - but the public don't naturally share the values of those people, Corbyn's strength is that his policies align with how people think - his weakness is that they're put to those people through a mainstream media that hates both him and to an extent its readership.

I'm sorry but the old "the media are warping people's minds" thing is wearing very thin. It's almost as if you're just trying to tell people what they should believe. If Labour go into the next election with that approach they will be absolutely slaughtered and rightly so.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Mantis

[chrisp65]

I'm enjoying this week's tory line that it's a pity Labour is broken as the tory party requires decent opposition to keep its excesses in check.

What a fantastic bit of shite that the media have been happy to let go unchallenged. I've heard creepy Oliver Letwin say it this week. Rees Mogg said it on QT this week and Anna Soubry said it on radio 4 in some midweek programme. I'm sure they all thought it independently at the same time and weren't just repeating the official spin.

But what a line! We the tories are so **** horrible, we want someone else to stop us doing everything we want to do to you.

Obviously, the likes of Kuensberg, Nick Robinson, Dimbleby and Humphrys were all just off their game when they let that same 'message of the week' slip through unchallenged on every occasion.

[Chindie]

I think the media give him short shrift. Corbyn isn't given much respect, the narrative is always negative at best if not near mocking, he isn't given a platform at all without some fairly strong critique. The media isn't his friend.

Some of that is deserved however. He doesn't engage with the media, whether that is a reaction or a general stance I don't know, some of what he does and says is stupid, and deserves the reaction (or lack of) it gets. But he should be getting a fairer roll of the dice than he does.

The problem is, I think, is even he did get that fairer roll, I don't think he'd win many people over, because even his laudable positions on many things aren't winning over the man buying a 4 pack of cheap beer in Walsall this afternoon who's worried about whether his jobs still there at Christmas and his family will be OK this time next year.

[Mantis]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

I'm enjoying this week's tory line that it's a pity Labour is broken as the tory party requires decent opposition to keep its excesses in check.

What a fantastic bit of shite that the media have been happy to let go unchallenged. I've heard creepy Oliver Letwin say it this week. Rees Mogg said it on QT this week and Anna Soubry said it on radio 4 in some midweek programme. I'm sure they all thought it independently at the same time and weren't just repeating the official spin.

But what a line! We the tories are so **** horrible, we want someone else to stop us doing everything we want to do to you.

Obviously, the likes of Kuensberg, Nick Robinson, Dimbleby and Humphrys were all just off their game when they let that same 'message of the week' slip through unchallenged on every occasion.

Governments (whatever the party) needing credible opposition is hardly a "Tory line".

[Chindie]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I'm enjoying this week's tory line that it's a pity Labour is broken as the tory party requires decent opposition to keep its excesses in check.

What a fantastic bit of shite that the media have been happy to let go unchallenged. I've heard creepy Oliver Letwin say it this week. Rees Mogg said it on QT this week and Anna Soubry said it on radio 4 in some midweek programme. I'm sure they all thought it independently at the same time and weren't just repeating the official spin.

But what a line! We the tories are so **** horrible, we want someone else to stop us doing everything we want to do to you.

Obviously, the likes of Kuensberg, Nick Robinson, Dimbleby and Humphrys were all just off their game when they let that same 'message of the week' slip through unchallenged on every occasion.

Have all the likes in the world.

I find it all the more hilarious that its so obviously insincere.