Teale's 'tache

Absolutely, with regard to the colours and different elements, they are all very flexible in how they can be used, however, a good brand is about consistency and that is easier to achieve if you try to limit yourself to only a handful of variations. I would say the crest we have now is less flexible, you can take the lion out, but the lion with the star off-center doesn't look great on its own, and you could maybe take the text out, but as it's on a circular path it will look different when put on a straight path so you lose a bit of consistency there, and then finally you can use the circle on its own, but it is a generic often used shape and so feels less unique to us. I think you are right, Heck will be looking for something along the lines of what I have done where there's more flexibility for use across a brand, he's looking to build an entire brand from the ground up and a crest/logo is always going to be the most important part of that, likely one of the reasons why he pulled the plug is he didn't think the new badge gave him enough flexibility to build a solid brand.

A couple of full-colour options...

Colour would be the next step in the design process, obviously, it already works in one colour that you could easily switch around depending upon the background it will sit on. A monotone logo like that allows you to go with any colour if you want to stray from the traditional for a mad 3rd kit or something. There are a few options for a full-colour version, I'll try and knock up a few examples if I get a chance. I'm a little torn on the colour choices though, I'd like the lion to be the gold colour as that makes the most sense, but then you'd have to have it on a claret/dark background, which makes it more difficult to work blue into the design. A blue background with a claret lion is a possibility that we've used previously.

That's a possibility, though you may run into issues should you ever need to add a second star. I added it at the top mainly so we could use just the lion and star together as we have been doing recently. I also made sure it was center-aligned for the sake of symmetry. I don't like it off center, it ruins the balance of any design and it looks like the lion is juggling with it.

I can see both sides of the star debate, from a designer's point of view I'd probably lose it, anything not essential is usually making a design too busy, but I put it in these designs mainly to show where it would go if we decided to keep it, you could easily remove it, just make the lion a little bigger, and move it up a touch to fill the space.

The gaslamp concept is interesting, though I feel it needs to look more like a gaslamp if we were to go down that route, as it would then be more unique a shape, at the moment it's too similar to a shield I feel. I understand the gaslamp part of our history, but it seems a very recent thing, I'd been supporting Villa for 20+ years before it came to my attention, and many Villa fans still seem to not be aware of it, so anyone outside of our support would have no idea at all what it means. However, it is an interesting shape and bit of history that could absolutely be used as part of a brand, it's the kind of thing I would expect Heck to be looking at judging by how he delved into the 76ers history for their branding.

I think there needs to be some fan input, and I believe that's legally the case now after the 'Cardiff Reds' debacle. I don't mind fans being involved in the process at all, but they can have too much input, and be led in certain directions depending on the questions asked, which is possibly what happened in the latest design. It's important to have some restrictions, some non-negotiables, and work from those, however, if there are too many then you leave little room for creativity. I'll be very interested to see how this process will differ from the last one, and I'll be interested to see the fan reactions as well, as I get the impression that there's less demand for a round crest than before and more for a singular lion which has been used by the club a lot recently.

Regarding using the frame, that's absolutely what I'm trying to get at, if you can use all of the components across different mediums, in different situations, and do it consistently then you have a brand. Once you have a good brand and use it correctly, it becomes memorable and almost organic in the way it evolves from there on. You can also just refine/update a component at a time as required, rather than having a completely new design every so many years if trends change. In terms of the finer details, I really just threw a few ideas together that I've had since yesterday, there are plenty of refinements/improvements I can see that I could make already. But, like I say, you could use a different lion, a different font and the premise is the same. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that Heck is looking to build a brand like he did with the 76ers, not just a crest, something that goes beyond a simple badge, that can flow through all of our marketing, everything we do, long term.

Okay, so, I wanted to illustrate the kind of thing I think we will be getting, judging by what Mr Heck and Mother Design did with the 76ers. Now, I'm not saying it will be this design, I've not touched on colours in any way, they may well use a different shape, a different font face, or a different lion, they may use the star, or they may not, they might include 1874, or they may not. What I'm trying to show is how a crest for us may be designed to be used as part of a brand with component parts. So first up we have a crest with all components included, now this isn't meant to scale down exactly as it is, it will lose component parts depending upon the use case. This would be used pretty much wherever space is allowed and the full name required. Next, we have a version that just contains the text, this would be used when there's not enough vertical space for the whole thing, like the header of a website, on the side of a pen, or something like that. I've done a couple of versions of this. You could also use the up/down chevrons in other places like on the kit or various other places and really integrate that into the brand. Then we have the diamond and the lion, this could be used wherever there's a repeating pattern, or anywhere you don't need the text present, like wallpaper etc. Finally, we have the lion on its own (apart from the star in this case), we've seen that used quite a bit recently on jackets, strips, and marketing. The idea is that you have these interchangeable parts, that can be used across a brand, swapped in and out as needed. If done properly and consistently it can be a very powerful marketing tool.

I mean, you could try and work around it, or you could embrace it and partner up with big players in the Audio/Visual market and use it to your advantage. I think there's more than one way of looking at it.

Using AV in a graphic would have no bearing at all on SEO (Search Engine Optimisation), Google can't accurately read the letters that are part of a graphic, and so can't use it in their search algorithms, only if we constantly refer to ourselves as just 'AV' would there be any overlap. Personally, I think the whole Audio/Visual thing is a bit overblown, and if anything it could be used to our advantage by a skilled marketeer.

Yeah, Lions, rampant or otherwise have been used in Heraldry for a loooooonnng time... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_(heraldry)#:~:text=As a general rule%2C English,the case of the royal

With regard to Mr Heck, he's not really been here long enough for me to of really formed much of an opinion on him. I just know a bit of the work he did with the 76ers. Elegant and timeless, would you say the new round crest is either of those things? Do you feel it is a good representation of us? Because that's what our crest should be. If you do that is absolutely fine, it's all a matter of opinion and everybody will have one, there's no right or wrong, black or white answer here. Personally, I don't, it doesn't feel unique to us, you could swap the colours and change the name and use it for any club with a lion and it would mean as much to them as it does to us. The 75%-80% you mention was between the gaslamp design and the round design, there was no option for 'neither' or anything else, just a straight this one or that one. I was in no way surprised the round design won by that margin. The new design may well listen to that survey and still be round, but until we see it we just don't know. If Purslow was still with us you are right, we would be sticking with the new design, but the question is should we? Is that design good enough to stick with for the next 20 years? Does it represent Aston Villa sufficiently? Is it possible Heck and his team can come up with something better, that better represents us and make this season of two badges worth it? I don't know, let's see what they come up with.

Possibly, but a lot depends on the questions asked and the ideas put forward. As someone who works in design, I've had clients who were 100% certain of what they wanted until they were shown something they hadn't thought of and then immediately fell in love with. First impressions are incredibly important, how you present a concept can be instrumental to getting people on board. I'm intrigued to see what questions will be asked this time, what ideas will be floated, and ultimately how they present any designs to us.

The first one is one of my concept kit designs from last year that someone has chucked a different crest on, love it when I see one of my designs out in the wild

Well, what a mess, which is very in keeping with how our brand has been as a whole for as long as I can remember. I only hope this new process allows whoever gets to design the next effort enough room to be creative, and that they can produce something that really represents our great club and its history. I'm no fan of the old badge, I'm not convinced by the new one either, and I really don't want to go through another year with 2 badges ever again. Fingers crossed they come up with something the majority can get on board with, and that we can stick with for a long time. Something elegant and timeless, that is Aston Villa, and that is what our crest should be too.

Worries about the high line are not new, in fact, we have a thread on here about it that was started at some point last season. There will always be worries as we continue to employ it, but the points we have won playing this way speak for themselves. We did defend better yesterday, we were much less ragged and kept our shape better in general. However, I think if we could put pressure on the ball in midfield a bit quicker it would certainly leave that high line less exposed, this is where we miss Buendia I feel, and also to a lesser degree Ramsey. Last season with those two providing more pressure on the ball we looked a lot more comfortable and in control, with less pressure and without Mings we do seem a little more jumpy at the back. There's been a lot of upheaval in the team, not only in defence we also have 2 new players in our forward press in Diaby and Zaniolo, and a good forward press takes time and repetition, so I think it will improve. Overall it's a good performance and very happy to get 3 points while we still have teething issues to resolve, and that's what good teams and good managers can do. Chelsea have their own problems that they weren't able to overcome.

I'm not concerned about the away form necessarily, but the manner of some of the away defeats recently is concerning. We've picked up a nasty habit of conceding early, which away from home is really making things difficult for yourself right from the get-go, and then there's the amount we are conceding; which is maybe a separate issue, and there are of course mitigating circumstances. There's been too much upheaval across the back four so far, hopefully, things will settle down as the season progresses.

My priorities have always been laid elsewhere with regard to my income, having a season ticket has always been a commitment of time and money too far for me, I had one year as a season ticket holder in the Holte End and it was an incredible experience that I was lucky to have. Even though my income has increased as I've got older, so have my responsibilities to other things. Now I have a young family and having a season ticket just wouldn't be a responsible use of my time or finances. The prices for an odd game don't seem unreasonable to me, as someone who's only looking to attend a game or two a year and make a big deal of it, but I can see how it's unsustainable for those who want to attend every game. If you look at the lists of average ticket prices I wouldn't say we are out of place in terms of what we charge for where we are, and that's a simplification I know there are other factors, but it's not like we are charging London prices, or top 4 prices, it doesn't feel like we are trying to gouge every penny if that makes sense, I just think we are where we are in the food chain, and without the cost of living crisis, everything would seem much more reasonable. Shirt prices are a different matter, it is ridiculous, for every club, and has only been getting worse for a number of years now, a pro shirt now costs more than I have ever spent on any item of clothing by some distance. It does concern me how many seem to be priced out of attending as often as they'd like/at all, it concerns me that people can't afford to take their kids to games especially. But at the same time, it's not all on the club, they just react to the market, as any business does, and that market right now is a mess thanks to many external factors beyond their control. It's an unpleasant situation that isn't just restricted to Aston Villa, or Football. I mean, you nearly have to take out a mortgage just to buy a block of cheese at the moment...

I agree, and I'd like to add that a lot of people simply don't like change, they like the status quo(probably the band as well...), especially if it has a direct impact on themselves and that's completely understandable, but if you want to evolve and improve as a club then change is going to happen, and that will always upset some people along the way. If we want to catch the big boys then we need to keep evolving, and standing still at this level of the game is essentially going backward, and that goes for both on and off the pitch. I understand that some people will fear evolution, will be scared of losing any of our traditions, and scared of losing who we are along the way, and those are completely valid concerns. Heck took over quite a mess at the 76ers, and over time and I'd imagine despite plenty of pushback on certain things, he produced something very popular and very profitable, and importantly he used their history to do it. He's taking over another big mess here commercially, and his aims will be the same, it might just be he needs to make us more profitable first before he can focus on making it popular. Heck might not 'get it' yet, but I'm sure he will over time, and I'm sure he is versing himself in our history as he did with the 76ers, we may just have to be a little patient with him, and as we all know football fans have a near-endless supply of patience... /s

That goal was incredible. Having played a bit in my day, I can tell you that hitting a bouncing ball, that far off the ground, while it is still rising, and keeping it on target is incredibly difficult. You almost have to hit it twice as hard as well, to delay the spin imparting on the ball before it gets to the goal, which is what so often sees that kind of chance clear the crossbar. There are plenty of world-class players out there who presented with the same chance would put it in the stands. When you throw in the match situation as well, it's just an incredible finish. I don't like the Benteke comparisons, I think their attributes are different, I feel like Duran is much more mobile and aggressive, and Benteke was just a monster in the air, every time the ball went in the box it felt like a chance with him in the team, I've yet to see much of Duran's aerial prowess, but he'd do well to get close to Benteke in that respect. Different doesn't mean better or worse, and different is absolutely fine. I like Duran, he can finish that's for sure, he's got all the attributes and seems very willing, just needs the right guidance and we could have a real player on our hands.

I'd be more concerned if he was happy with the amount of playing time. Top players want to play. He's new to Emery's system and there are good trusted players he's trying to displace, he may well do so in time, but it's still early doors, and there's plenty of football to be played. I like that he's eager to be on the pitch more. One of the pitfalls of having a squad of players is trying to keep them all happy, Only 11 can start each game, and somebody always misses out. It's how the players react to missing out that is most important and from those comments, Tielemans seems to be reacting well.

He's the most tactically astute manager I think we've ever had, and incredibly meticulous with it, he'll have multiple plans in place if Watkins gets injured. We may not have a direct replacement for him in the squad, but it doesn't mean the end of the world if we have to play in a slightly different way to get the best out of a different kind of player. Unai sees solutions where others see problems.

I'm very happy with our business thus far, and wouldn't be overly concerned if we don't add any more. It's far too late in the window now to let anyone important go. I think we're probably keeping tabs on a few potential deals should certain situations fall our way, but I don't see us scrabbling around to fill gaps for the sake of it. What has been clear by our business is that Emery has been looking to add real quality in key positions, but not at an extravagant cost. I think he knows if we can qualify for the Champions League then it's much easier to attract the kind of quality he wants, but before then we have to be somewhat savvy in how we approach things. All things considered, I think Emery has plenty to work with, I don't think one or two more would hurt, but they have to be of a high enough quality, whether that is available between now and the end of the window at a reasonable cost we'll have to wait and see. Any transfer window is difficult to judge at the time, the results and performances that follow will dictate the success or failure of it.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if Emery has given specific instructions for when a player gets to the byline, I would say the most likely scenario is that Bailey simply didn't have time to look up if he wanted to play the ball before it went out of play, and so put it in the most dangerous area he could from the position he was in, that would be the edge of the six-yard box, and McGinn may have been under instruction to make that particular run when somebody gets to the byline, or he may just be smart enough to know that front post is a decent area to run in to. The whole looking-up thing is nonsense, strikers don't need to look up every time they take a shot as they 'know where the goal is', it's called awareness, it's not only visual, and it's an incredibly important skill to have.