striker

Just wondering what sort of conditions was in McCormack's transfer to Villa? Was it 12m straight up or was that fee based on appearances? Could be one of the reasons why Bruce is looking McCormack gone now? 6m-8m back to Villa now would cover the initial outlay?

Looked to me yesterday that any confidence he had is totally shot. Layed the ball off yesterday when it was easier to take the player on and shoot. If Bruce is going to play him more this season then he needs to do something to help with the player's confidence telling him to be more direct.

Cannot see anyone paying 8m for McCormack at the moment so looking like he will stay at Villa.

Could be that Bristol made an offer. That offer was put to the player. Player then asked for assurances as to his first team place and didn't get them hence the transfer? Controversal one though as I don't think Terry or Samba are fit enough to be relied upon for the whole season but De Laet and Jedinak can play at CB if needed.

Sad to see him go. Think he will do well there.

Throw in Gabby as well and I'm sure most will be heartbroken.

This is absolutely key for me concerning Villa this coming season. Bruce has the squad but is he courageous enough to do it?

Not really a difficult one at all this. Getting offer for problematic player who just hasn't performed and will clear not insubstantial wages of the books with young players coming through to take his place. Agree on 4m plus another 1m based on appearances and move on.

Good post and just about where I'm at with it.

Not sure if comparing Villa to Newcastle last season is as invalid or unhelpful as you state but to debate it we would be running around in circles for the next two or three pages of this thread. Anyway it was more the attitude of Rafa I was getting at in how he got his players to approach playing Championship teams. Newcastle stamped their authority on games from the off while Villa did exactly the opposite. That may very well be down to the way in which Bruce's teams generally play as opposed to showing teams too much respect but Bruce's Hull did score plenty of goals gaining promotion while Villa are still struggling to do that even in pre season against respectively inferior opposition. So there's something not quite right. It may well be that Tro's point needing a better DM to allow Lansbury and Hourihane to play further forward may create more goal scoring opportunities but it didn't with Jedinak last season. So what if you are correct and the signings of Whelan and Elmo make no difference to the way Villa play next season because Bruce simply won't change his style of play? If that is so I do not think Bruce will see Christmas as Villa manager.

I guess this is right to the point of the debate whether Whelan will do exactly that or the possession stats will improve but ultimately Villa will still struggle to score the required quota of goals to be in the top 2? As long as Bruce is manager I think it will be the latter but would love to be proven wrong.

I sincerely hope that Bruce doesn't play Jedinak and Whelan together. Villa aren't going to be playing teams with enough quality in the Championship to warrant two defensive midfielders. In fact it should be Championship opposition doing that when they face Villa.

For me he is ready now and you could see that in his little cameo in the last game. Tish should be sent out on loan if not sold so Lyden should be retained in the first team squad. I honestly can't see either Whelan nor Jedinak going a full season without a lengthy injury so he would be excellent cover for a few positions as Lyden can play further forward as well. I just think Bruce needs to show the same faith in him as Green but no doubt with the signing of Whelan he will probably be loaned out which I think will be a mistake unless only until say January and able to recall him.

I really do think Bruce has missed a trick here in giving more game time to Lyden in the DM role but there is still time for that in whats left of pre-season. I just hope with the signing of Whelan Bruce doesn't become blinkered in his approach to Lyden and farm him out on loan for the season?

Well Tro you got what you wanted so hopefully it will make a difference.

Really good post mate. An enjoyable read. I think the point that I and others are making is that even when Jedinak did return from injury those more offensive players still struggled to create or score goals. With the added protection from Jedinak back from injury Bruce still seemingly set the team up in a defensive manner relying on Kodjia to nick a goal and then trying to defend that. Imo that setup isn't going to get you automatic promotion when you factor in the human capacity to make mistakes. If you take how Newcastle played in the Championship as an example last season. Rafa generally seen as a defensive manager did however show very little respect to Championship teams with a squad not much better than Villa's. He had Championship teams on the back foot from the off and went for the throat. They will be playing in the Premiership next season. Bruce however lost the initiative from the start against Championship teams by paying them too much respect and sitting back.He lost the aura of AVFC by doing that and Championship teams quickly gained confidence in playing Villa. Some of those teams couldn't believe their luck how much respect Bruce was paying them. Villa are still in the Championship. I think the problem lies more with Bruce's system of play with or without a much lorded DM but there can be no more excuses if Villa's performances and results don't improve.

Well mate if that was the prevalent attitude in teams by all managers then younger players wouldn't get a game and given time to develop. You will note Bruce has already given Green game time and imo Bruce should do the same with Lyden. As it is Bruce has got his man so I guess we're going to learn pretty quickly whether the inclusion of Whelan is now going to change Bruce's tactics from ultra defensive to being more offensive. When you reflect on last season the inclusion of Jedinak made little difference to the way Villa played so it will be interesting to see what happens?

I'd change that last word in your post a bit then fully agree with it.

Tro apart from Lyden who I believe if shown faith by the manager can be the player you want there's a guy at Fulham called Tom Cairney who I would say is as close to Barry as your going to get but he would command a fee more than what Hogan cost and will probably end up in the Premiership.

Yup Elmo.

Impressed with him last night including his ability to actually pass to a team mate when under pressure. Will also prove dangerous at set pieces. Adequate cover so yes I'd give him a 1 year contract as long as his wage demands are realistic. Much better alternative than Richards or Elphick.

If you are going to use games played in the Premiership or at international level as a barometer to gage a player's ability then you are on a very slippery slope indeed especially concerning Whelan and who he has played for. Jedinak was mentioned as the missing link last season in allowing Hourihane and Lansbury to be more offensive yet look how that turned out. Lyden for me should be given more game time now. He has better control, passing ability and more energy than either Jedinak or Whelan (if signed) will ever have. Plus you have JT at centre back who will keep Lyden disciplined. No better time to blood him now with Jedinak as backup when Lyden needs resting.

What I've seen of him (which is limited) he is the type of player you speak of but has better control and passing ability than Jedinak imo. Just needs to be given more game time now to get up to speed fitness wise. I'd actually play him in the first team and have Jedinak as cover. What I noted tonight those players from the U21s that were given a chance shone more than those costing fees and maybe that's the way to go rather than paying fees for the likes of Whelan and Elmo?

Lyden showed enough in his little cameo tonight to be that player and should be given more game time before the season starts to prove it. I'd much rather promote Lyden than sign Whelan who for me is a really poor player.

If this is true really, really disappointed to see him go but maybe he just didn't want to stay despite the new setup. Agree with others that the mooted fee is on the low side.