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The US Naval War College estimates that its costs $10 billion to put a single CBG into the field. The US has 11 of these. China hasn’t got the money to compete with that. Jesus nobody has!

China isn't building nuclear carriers (the USN carrier fleet is all-nuclear for the foreseeable future), which gives a massive strategic advantage to the US (since a conventionally fueled carrier has to be refueled every few days, you can cripple it by taking out its supply line). Add to that the various electronic gizmos and the accumulated knowledge of what works and what doesn't, and 50 years is definitely reasonable. Now, it's not going to take the Chinese 50 years to catch up if they choose to, but in that time, there will likely be further advancements from the US side (some of the stuff that's going into the Gerald R. Ford-class carriers is off the hook). Understood on the nuclear thing, I can see how that makes a huge difference to the effectiveness of a carrier. On the electronic stuff, I was a little concerned, seeing as China manufactures a huge amount of the worlds consumer electronics and the average modern day small fishing trawler has more computer power than a fifties aircraft carrier, I'd be surprised if they were more than a decade behind surely? (Of course, even if they are bang up to date on technology the point on fueling means they're still a good ways back.) The most important element on a carrier is its air-arm. If you haven’t got the right air frames on board or the experienced naval aviators, then you’re not going to be particularly effective. The Chinese naval aviation programme hasn’t begun yet. The idea that they’d fly against the 7th Fleet over Taiwan in a few years time for example, would be ridiculous. NATO standard pilots flying aircraft a couple of generations out of your league? Turkey shoot. You cannot start a carrier programme from scrath, base it off an ex-Soviet hull and expect to be anywhere near the standard or technology of a USN CVN or its escorts.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

That was a good read Awol. The state of the Royal Navy is almost as depressing as the state of the Villa!

What the good lord?!

As I say, you don’t quite understand what you’re talking about. Edit: Awol latest I read on the Indian sub programme was that they were ordering diesel subs for nuclear prices. But I agree that there is a lot of room for growth there and with indigenous design too. For all the Chinese industrial power, all their major weapon systems are Russian clones.

You could eat your Big Mac while you settle down to watch the latest Hollywood blockbuster on STAR Chinese Movies.

It's recession has already begun. It started with the slow disintegration of the British Empire, and continues with the slow decline of American power. Tell that to Ronald McDonald. I hear they have a lovely branch in Bejing.

I don’t think you understand the difference between hull numbers and capability. If you’re going to have a blue water navy, then it is because you want to project power via it. The only way to do that is by carriers, as many of them as you can get, with escorts and amphibious assault ships and so on. The Chinese lack this completely- they are unable to project power this way. All their hulls combined don’t even provide a smidgeon of the force projection one US fleet has based in Japan. That’s just one fleet. The USN has 12 carriers. It’s one of the most powerful military forces the world has ever known and that is just one branch of the US MIC. Right now the only way China can project power is via her nuclear deterrent, which is dwarfed by her neighbours and rivals. Sticking one (very nice looking I must admit) LPD off the coast of Africa isn’t the force empires are built from. Chinese military thinking is still focussed on its army- which is still an infantry focused machine. To get nerdy about it, judging by their recent exercise, they displayed some shocking tactical errors with their armour. Tanks silhouetted and all sorts of fundamental floors that is a sharp way to get them scrapped by the enemy in no time. While their exercises seem to focus on the strange belief that they’ll always know where the enemy is and what he plans to do. Oh well. Edit: just to give you a visual idea of what I was talking about above. Mr Abrams says thanking you muchly. Boom! Edit 2: just to give you a visual idea of what I was talking about above with regards to carriers. Here’s the Ruski hand-me-down Varyag in modification. Its roughly the same sort of carrier that we’re getting (only we’ll have two hulls) and is essentially a medium sized carrier at about 65k tons. It wouldn't last five minutes up against the USN, but they're trying.

Ha ha! China does not have a true blue water navy and has no naval power projection of any quality. An old Russian hand me down carrier does not a fleet make. If you want to know what a fleet is, then take a look at the US 7th Fleet in Yokosuka, nicely placed to give the Chinese one hell of a problem should they wish to take Taiwan by force.

I cannot see Anglo-Saxon cultural dominance receding any time in the next couple hundred years. While the American MIC is far, far more powerful than anything the planet has ever seen. It would take the Chinese a significant amount of time to even attempt to overturn the imbalance, if it is indeed possible at all to do so.

I had no idea he’d arrived!

He'd certainly have a policy for getting rid of the 'unwanted'. I wouldn't be able to stand all the "5 year plan" talk.

Well, we could hire christ - I'm sure by the time he got to the end of his management stint we'd be crucifying him. Next you'll be telling me to cheer up, that it ain't that bad and that I should look on the bright side of life.

Steve **** Bruce? Christ on the cross.

Probably not the man? **** me.

That was Hatch's Sutton Villa flag that they nicked last year. They were lobbing stuff at us at the end of the game and we were locked in. They’re just mouth though, as they never give it the big one outside. All the Rapid fans we met in the bars over the three days were great though and kept buying us drinks. Some of them do fancy themselves mind, but its all shape and to be honest not at all moody outside as it was last year. I wouldn’t expect anything to be done. Our police liaison didn’t want to know when a mate of mine spoke to him about what they’d been up to with chucking things and racist chanting. Useless clearing in the woods The fences make them braver. You wouldn't get the throat slitting if they thought we could hop the mesh and smash the **** out of the daft bastards. You just had to laugh at the sad tw*ts trying their best to intimidate. Fat blokes with shirts off or beardless kids coming the hardman behind two metal fences. They didn’t say a word outside. It’s funny how several feet of steel can make them braver and idiots, because as I’ve said, the Rapid fans we met were great. We were buying each other drinks and getting on great the whole time we were there. While NRC did give them the finger at the end after chucking his shirt into the corwd. One or two monkey noises being made and it pissed those morons off next to us a treat.

There were around 20 extra in our end with the England ladies and their squad. But who gives a good ****? We had a brilliant time and if others decide that they don’t want to go or cannot go, then that’s their issue, as this was an immense trip and probably better than the previous seasons European aways. That said, when we get into the group stages, we’ll take a good few thousand to the away games then.

Amazing couple of days. Absolutely top draw stuff and probably the pick of the recent trips. Never a dull moment.

I've still not got my ticket! It better come tomorrow morning.

We were drinking in one near a McDonalds last year, its about two tram stops shy of their ground. Couldn't tell you where it is mind and have no idea whether we'll be in there on Thursday.

Good news for our exports, considering we're one of their largest import markets.

That's a decent number, we should take about 300 over then I expect. Last year there was plenty of room and a stand where you want job. Even on the scaffolding down at the front if you like. Edit: 2pm Wednesday? I went in around that time because I'd forgot they'd gone on sale and the lad in the shop said I was the 27th!

I was in to sort out my ticket earlier at around half two and I was the 27th person to buy a ticket. Last year we had around 250-300 over and it was quite moody pre-game.

O'Neill had transfer negotiations taken away form him, just like every other manager in the league. Didums. Now we have two people who know a thing or two about asset acquisitions running the show. Just like every other club in the league.