Stevo985 Posted July 23, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well look at the populations: England - 50 million Scotland - 5 million Weird how China don't have many top managers then China is not a neighbouring country of England so not really relevant. Why not? Because it doesn't suit your argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 What about them? You know football doesn't work like that. It is kind of odd that it isn't more in line with the population ratios though hence the reason this thread was started. England and Scotland are both just regions of the UK, both have a very similar culture and shared history. Why to Scotland have, proportionally, a much greater number of top flight managers than England? Is it just a quirk of fate or is there some reason that can be pinpointed? Well, just becuase there are a lot of top-flight Scottish managers doesn't mean that all of them or even the majority of them are good, McLeish being a good example. To be honest, even though McLeish will never be considered a great premier league manager you have to have some talent to get a team promoted to the premier league and win a cup with them so I would still say he is an example of a Scottish manager making a successful career at the expense of an English (or other nationality) manager. Even someone like Owen Coyle has made a successful career of being a manager and there are plenty of English managers who would love to have the career profile he does. Anyway they certainly punch above their weight in the manager department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Weird how China don't have many top managers then China is not a neighbouring country of England so not really relevant. Why not? Because it doesn't suit your argument? There's just no comparison between England and China. Completely different countries in different continents. As LondonLax said, England and Scotland are neighbouring countries of Great Britain with a shared passion for football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Is Scotland really that good at producing managers? And yes I am aware that Paul Lambert is Scottish but there are plenty of bad Scottish managers out there. One of a handful of managers to win a trophy in the last 10 years, and one who allegedly negotiated a very cheap fee for a certain Gareth Bale, only to have the rug pulled because his club couldn't afford it. Then he was the wrong man, at the wrong time, and certainly in the wrong place. Paul Lambert is the right man, at the right time, in the right place, but there is probably not much more than a cigarette paper between them. And as we have seen with all our managers, Aston Villa is the pinnacle of their career, or the end, or both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I couldn't stand McLeish's football philosophy like most but imo I reckon he's more suited to international football where you're a god if you can nick 1 nil wins and he certainly did that in his year in charge of Scotland such as beating France away. A few problems with Scotland now. Obviously they don't produce great players anymore but they probably have more playing in the premier league than in any time in the last 10 years, certainly more than when Bertie Vogts was in charge. That brings me nicely onto the next point, the SFA don't have a clue about appointing managers. The wage on offer must be ridiculously low if they can't attract anyone managing in the English leagues. Terrible appointments like Bertie Vogts, George Burley and Levein. They struck gold for 18 months with Walter Smith and then McLeish who nearly got them to euro 2008. I do think Strachan will be o.k but can't see Scotland being at a major finals anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Why are Croatia and Uruguay doing so well of late then? They both have smaller populations than Scotland, and I don't think either country has a richer Football Association either. And Bosnia. Why do the Czechs constantly have very strong national teams? All I saw in the last world cup was Slovakia reaching the last 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 they can probably sneak into 2016 with 24 qualifiers. as for berti vogts id say he wasnt a cheap appointment considering his resume, plus didnt they get him as they were so impressed at what Sven did at beginning with England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 A strange night for Scottish football, Hibs lost 7-0 at home to Malmo (0-9 on aggregate) in the Europa League qualifiers while St. Johnstone knocked out Rosenborg. Suppose it has to be said that Hibs are managed by an Irishman who has a track record in embarrassing Euro results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 like drawing 0/0 with the mighty Deportivo back in their heydey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 like drawing 0/0 with the mighty Deportivo back in their heydey I'll give you that, but it still doesn't explain how a Bohs team who were arguably a better team then that Shels side crashed and burned against TNS in spectacular fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 its quite known story around Dublin what happened to Bohs team. they allegedly didnt get paid either salary or bonus and players were on strike in car park of TNS stadium before the game and had to be begged to play as UEFA wouldnt pay the club their fees if they didnt take part. but players put in a half ass effort. though Shels team was better for me with Hoolahan in it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) Steve Kean horridness more than makes up for anything positive any Scottish manager has done or does in the next thousand years. I can't even comprehend how you can be that awful Edited July 27, 2013 by Rovers13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 One of a handful of managers to win a trophy in the last 10 years, and one who allegedly negotiated a very cheap fee for a certain Gareth Bale, only to have the rug pulled because his club couldn't afford it. Then he was the wrong man, at the wrong time, and certainly in the wrong place. Paul Lambert is the right man, at the right time, in the right place, but there is probably not much more than a cigarette paper between them. And as we have seen with all our managers, Aston Villa is the pinnacle of their career, or the end, or both. Are you seriously trying to suggest that McLeish wasn't an awful manager? The cup win was flukey as ****, and besides Arsenal they didn't have to play any difficult teams. He didn't sign Gareth Bale so that's irrelevant, and what's to say he would've developed the same under his shit negative tactics? Just look at their records FFS. Lambert is streets ahead of McLeish. How is this even up for debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 McLeish was not a terrible manager though. He has managed most of his career around the top flight in England and Scotland, he has managed biggest team in his country. Their is a lot worse managers in history. they still beat 3 top flight teams to win that trophy as well just because you continually dont like him that you can play down his achievements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 He was terrible but he had a great record with Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 terrible is not getting a team promoted or won a cup. not like he was managing Hereford or Gillingham or something all his career even then thats still a decent level of management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) McLeish was not a terrible manager though. He has managed most of his career around the top flight in England and Scotland, he has managed biggest team in his country. Their is a lot worse managers in history. they still beat 3 top flight teams to win that trophy as well just because you continually dont like him that you can play down his achievements His record in England (you know, where the standard of football is actually decent) is dire. 2 relegations in 3 years, followed by almost relegating Villa the following seasons and getting a grand total of 7 wins all football, and this isn't even mentioning the dire football and terrible signings at both clubs. Let's not forget his short stint at Forest, where he managed just 1 win out of 7, this was the same Forest side that would almost reach the play-offs under Billy Davies. The reason why I "continually don't like him" is because he's a terrible manager who did a terrible job at Villa. His teams also play horrible football. He is not a good manager. Jesus, it's only been a year since he left and already people seem to be forgetting just how bad a manager he is. Edited July 27, 2013 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 terrible is not getting a team promoted or won a cup. not like he was managing Hereford or Gillingham or something all his career even then thats still a decent level of management I don't understand why managing higher level teams makes you a better manager? Just cause you continually get hired and fail with top flight teams dlesnt make you good. I'd rather have a managaer who succeeds with Gillingham and Hereford than fails continually in the prem and championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 terrible is not getting a team promoted or won a cup. not like he was managing Hereford or Gillingham or something all his career even then thats still a decent level of management I don't understand why managing higher level teams makes you a better manager? Just cause you continually get hired and fail with top flight teams dlesnt make you good. I'd rather have a managaer who succeeds with Gillingham and Hereford than fails continually in the prem and championship Exactly. This line of thinking assumes that all PL chairman are perfect in their managerial selections and don't make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 One of a handful of managers to win a trophy in the last 10 years, and one who allegedly negotiated a very cheap fee for a certain Gareth Bale, only to have the rug pulled because his club couldn't afford it. Then he was the wrong man, at the wrong time, and certainly in the wrong place. Paul Lambert is the right man, at the right time, in the right place, but there is probably not much more than a cigarette paper between them. And as we have seen with all our managers, Aston Villa is the pinnacle of their career, or the end, or both. Are you seriously trying to suggest that McLeish wasn't an awful manager? The cup win was flukey as ****, and besides Arsenal they didn't have to play any difficult teams. He didn't sign Gareth Bale so that's irrelevant, and what's to say he would've developed the same under his shit negative tactics? Just look at their records FFS. Lambert is streets ahead of McLeish. How is this even up for debate? Do we think that Ron Saunders and Tony Barton were flukey? I am not about to defend McLeish's tenure at the Villa, other than the fact that he had a hell of a lot more respect for Aston Villa than either of his two predecessors, but the stats speak for themselves. He won a trophy when most others didn't (and haven't) Ask Everton fans whether they are pissed off about losing their manager to be replaced by a relegated manager. They are salivating at the thought of trading off half a dozen league placings in exchange for a League Cup or F.A. Cup win. And I think that Lambert is equipped to emulate McLeish's achievement in English football by delivering us a trophy, but 'streets ahead'? Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts