Dale Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 On 26/10/2023 at 13:29, VillaJ100 said: Kloppinhalershop.com https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37513753/bournemouth-charged-fa-breaching-anti-doping-regulations didn't get much air at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Looking at Newcastles bench i honestly am trying to be as neutral a spossible but i think we have a stronger bench than them at the moment 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboys1 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 wilson scored so back in england squad instead of ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Looking at Newcastles bench i honestly am trying to be as neutral a spossible but i think we have a stronger bench than them at the moment I mean, they're missing 5-6 players who would be in the first 11 so the current bench is a bit misleading, but it's surprising they still have the likes of Krafth, Targett, Dummett, Ritchie etc. in the squad after all the money spent in the past few years. A couple more signings for now rather than the future - Hall and Livramento may well turn out to be top quality but not trusted to play yet it seems - would have made more sense. Newcastle looked knackered in the second half yesterday, understandable as they only made 1 change from midweek. If Neto's hamstring hadn't popped they could well have lost as he was running them ragged. They'll probably have to make some changes in the Carabao in the week otherwise Arsenal will be all over them next Saturday given how much trouble Wolves' pace on the counter/during turnovers gave them. Edited October 29, 2023 by oishiiniku_uk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, oishiiniku_uk said: I mean, they're missing 5-6 players who would be in the first 11 so the current bench is a bit misleading, but it's surprising they still have the likes of Krafth, Targett, Dummett, Ritchie etc. in the squad after all the money spent in the past few years. A couple more signings for now rather than the future - Hall and Livramento may well turn out to be top quality but not trusted to play yet it seems - would have made more sense. Newcastle looked knackered in the second half yesterday, understandable as they only made 1 change from midweek. If Neto's hamstring hadn't popped they could well have lost as he was running them ragged. They'll probably have to make some changes in the Carabao in the week otherwise Arsenal will be all over them next Saturday given how much trouble Wolves' pace on the counter/during turnovers gave them. I think it's something they've done well They've bought key pieces rather than a squad, if you look at what we did when we were buying several £15m players like traore and dendoncker, they didn't, they're playing a longer game, which seeing as they got top 4 already is good going IMO the only position they are stronger than us is striker and Watkins vs isak would make for an interesting conversation Not sure what they've done up there either to fix the kids on the streets of Newcastle not playing football... We've got that over them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: They've bought key pieces rather than a squad, if you look at what we did when we were buying several £15m players like traore and dendoncker, they didn't, they're playing a longer game Yeah, I get that, and that may well prove to be more astute in 1-2 seasons time, but they knew their squad was going to be tested by Champions League this season. I think it will be harder to retain a CL position this season, due to increased competition and also greater demands placed on their squad. Easy to say this in hindsight, but maybe it would have been better to just sign one of Hall/Livramento and then spend money on a couple of players for the present (experienced players on loan or free transfers, for instance). Trippier and Burn looked knackered last night and in need of a rest, but Howe doesn't seem to trust Livramento or Hall to deputize for them. EDIT: I'd not realized that both of those players are on loan with obligation to buy, so maybe they were the only signings that were viable for Newcastle with their current FFP situation. I'd guess the wages are low compared to more experienced players, also. So maybe it is a case of stockpiling them for the future before their value (and wages) increase significantly. Edited October 29, 2023 by oishiiniku_uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 19 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said: Yeah, I get that, and that may well prove to be more astute in 1-2 seasons time, but they knew their squad was going to be tested by Champions League this season. I think it will be harder to retain a CL position this season, due to increased competition and also greater demands placed on their squad. Easy to say this in hindsight, but maybe it would have been better to just sign one of Hall/Livramento and then spend 40 million on a couple of players for the present (experienced players on loan or free transfers, for instance). Trippier and Burn looked knackered last night and in need of a rest, but Howe doesn't seem to trust Livramento or Hall to deputize for them. Good let him continue to play them as they will drop more points which is what we need 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Just now, Demitri_C said: Good let him continue to play them as they will drop more points which is what we need For sure! 'Intensity is their identity' apparently, so I'm all for seeing their players run into the ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said: For sure! 'Intensity is their identity' apparently, so I'm all for seeing their players run into the ground! Exactly the opposite of us, we like to slow games down and control the pace and then have bursts of intensity. Should stand us in good stead towards the end of the season in terms of fatigue. Edited October 29, 2023 by TheStagMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Exactly the opposite of us, we like to slow games down and control the pace and then have bursts of intensity. Should stand us in good stead towards the end of the season in terms of fatigue. Big club football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFish Posted October 30, 2023 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 On 29/10/2023 at 09:04, oishiiniku_uk said: Yeah, I get that, and that may well prove to be more astute in 1-2 seasons time, but they knew their squad was going to be tested by Champions League this season. I think it will be harder to retain a CL position this season, due to increased competition and also greater demands placed on their squad. Easy to say this in hindsight, but maybe it would have been better to just sign one of Hall/Livramento and then spend money on a couple of players for the present (experienced players on loan or free transfers, for instance). Trippier and Burn looked knackered last night and in need of a rest, but Howe doesn't seem to trust Livramento or Hall to deputize for them. EDIT: I'd not realized that both of those players are on loan with obligation to buy, so maybe they were the only signings that were viable for Newcastle with their current FFP situation. I'd guess the wages are low compared to more experienced players, also. So maybe it is a case of stockpiling them for the future before their value (and wages) increase significantly. Livramento isn't a loan with obligation. His was a permanent deal from the off. Hall is a loan with obligation purely for the benefit of the balance sheets of us and Chelsea. We don't have his full amount on our books now, Chelsea have a guaranteed income next accounting period. I don't know for sure, obviously, but my read is that the Champions League was a competition we were never going to win, so it was as much about getting experience in it and not getting embarrassed. It wasn't going to be the driving force behind our recruitment in the summer. The owners (I know, they're objectively awful people) have repeatedly stated they're in it for the long term, so while we'll likely not get CL football next season the aim is very much to become regular in that Competition. Better for the club to gradually improve the strength and depth of the squad instead of having too big of a gap between first and second 11. Any experienced player would want a big wage, and that's the area where FFP is tightest for us. I'm sure the idea would have been to rotate Barnes and Gordon, Isak and Wilson, Almiron and Murphy, a three from; Anderson, Bruno, Joelinton, Longstaff, Tonali and Willock. Unfortunately injuries to Barnes, Isak and Murphy means Almiron, Gordon, Wilson (who can never stay fit for long), are having to play full 90s a couple of times a week. and injuries have meant we couldn't rotate the midfield three, Joelinton, Longstaff, Willock have all had injuries and now Tonali is gone until next season. We don't even have attacking options to pull up from the youth squads because the academy had been neglected for far too long. Wolves was what I feared; a tired, depleted squad unable to get over the line against an improving Wolves side. We'll have more of those until either our players come back in the new year, or we sign some more bodies in January. That we're still 6th is frankly shocking to me. That you're 5th, isn't. You've played well, you're scoring for fun, and our game aside only Liverpool have scored more than once past you. And while you're missing Buendia and Mings for the season, you haven't looked like you've particularly missed them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, TheFish said: Livramento isn't a loan with obligation. His was a permanent deal from the off. Hall is a loan with obligation purely for the benefit of the balance sheets of us and Chelsea. We don't have his full amount on our books now, Chelsea have a guaranteed income next accounting period. I don't know for sure, obviously, but my read is that the Champions League was a competition we were never going to win, so it was as much about getting experience in it and not getting embarrassed. It wasn't going to be the driving force behind our recruitment in the summer. The owners (I know, they're objectively awful people) have repeatedly stated they're in it for the long term, so while we'll likely not get CL football next season the aim is very much to become regular in that Competition. Better for the club to gradually improve the strength and depth of the squad instead of having too big of a gap between first and second 11. Any experienced player would want a big wage, and that's the area where FFP is tightest for us. I'm sure the idea would have been to rotate Barnes and Gordon, Isak and Wilson, Almiron and Murphy, a three from; Anderson, Bruno, Joelinton, Longstaff, Tonali and Willock. Unfortunately injuries to Barnes, Isak and Murphy means Almiron, Gordon, Wilson (who can never stay fit for long), are having to play full 90s a couple of times a week. and injuries have meant we couldn't rotate the midfield three, Joelinton, Longstaff, Willock have all had injuries and now Tonali is gone until next season. We don't even have attacking options to pull up from the youth squads because the academy had been neglected for far too long. Wolves was what I feared; a tired, depleted squad unable to get over the line against an improving Wolves side. We'll have more of those until either our players come back in the new year, or we sign some more bodies in January. That we're still 6th is frankly shocking to me. That you're 5th, isn't. You've played well, you're scoring for fun, and our game aside only Liverpool have scored more than once past you. And while you're missing Buendia and Mings for the season, you haven't looked like you've particularly missed them. I was really surprised that newcastle opted for barnes instead of diaby tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFish Posted October 30, 2023 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I was really surprised that newcastle opted for barnes instead of diaby tbh We were quoted £60m+ for him and reportedly his wage demands ended our interest. We got Barnes for less and for less wages too. Dunno how much of an impact it had, but Howe really likes players with Premier League experience too. He'd have been a huge upgrade on Almiron and Murphy and as I said at the time, he's a really good signing for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, TheFish said: We were quoted £60m+ for him and reportedly his wage demands ended our interest. We got Barnes for less and for less wages too. Dunno how much of an impact it had, but Howe really likes players with Premier League experience too. He'd have been a huge upgrade on Almiron and Murphy and as I said at the time, he's a really good signing for you. Yea im really happy with diaby, obviously you have had some bad luck with barnes with his injury but i think he will be good for you. For me and i dont know of you will agree it seems the window before was a lot better for you than this current one. Pope botman gumiraes isak that was a very successful season window fod u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono62 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Tonali for 55 million was the better bet... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheFish said: Livramento isn't a loan with obligation. His was a permanent deal from the off. Hall is a loan with obligation purely for the benefit of the balance sheets of us and Chelsea. We don't have his full amount on our books now, Chelsea have a guaranteed income next accounting period. I don't know for sure, obviously, but my read is that the Champions League was a competition we were never going to win, so it was as much about getting experience in it and not getting embarrassed. It wasn't going to be the driving force behind our recruitment in the summer. The owners (I know, they're objectively awful people) have repeatedly stated they're in it for the long term, so while we'll likely not get CL football next season the aim is very much to become regular in that Competition. Better for the club to gradually improve the strength and depth of the squad instead of having too big of a gap between first and second 11. Any experienced player would want a big wage, and that's the area where FFP is tightest for us. I'm sure the idea would have been to rotate Barnes and Gordon, Isak and Wilson, Almiron and Murphy, a three from; Anderson, Bruno, Joelinton, Longstaff, Tonali and Willock. Unfortunately injuries to Barnes, Isak and Murphy means Almiron, Gordon, Wilson (who can never stay fit for long), are having to play full 90s a couple of times a week. and injuries have meant we couldn't rotate the midfield three, Joelinton, Longstaff, Willock have all had injuries and now Tonali is gone until next season. We don't even have attacking options to pull up from the youth squads because the academy had been neglected for far too long. Wolves was what I feared; a tired, depleted squad unable to get over the line against an improving Wolves side. We'll have more of those until either our players come back in the new year, or we sign some more bodies in January. That we're still 6th is frankly shocking to me. That you're 5th, isn't. You've played well, you're scoring for fun, and our game aside only Liverpool have scored more than once past you. And while you're missing Buendia and Mings for the season, you haven't looked like you've particularly missed them. Really enjoy reading your posts Fish. Botman is a huge miss for you aswell, Lascelles is o.k but no more than that and got caught out and gave the FK that lead to second Wolves goal. You're far more vulnerable defensively this season with Pope maybe lacking a bit of confidence from being dropped from the England squad. Interested what happened with Maddison. I was certain back end of last season he was going to sign for you if you made CL. Not sure if he just wanted to sign for Spurs more or you passed him up in the end but I think him at the top end of midfield would've given you an extra dimension rather than just add Barnes who's decent but dosen't offer a huge amount of difference to Gordon and Almiron. Edited October 30, 2023 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFish Posted October 30, 2023 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yea im really happy with diaby, obviously you have had some bad luck with barnes with his injury but i think he will be good for you. For me and i dont know of you will agree it seems the window before was a lot better for you than this current one. Pope botman gumiraes isak that was a very successful season window fod u Yeah last season was amazing in terms of signings. I think this season was more about squad building. Barnes isn't better than Gordon, but he's a goal threat from the bench and plenty good enough to play against the lower PL teams. Hall and Livramento are two for the future. So are Minteh, Heffernan et al. Tonali was bought to replace Bruno's role on the right hand side, with Bruno posting up on the left. I mean, it all makes sense, but it's not as exciting as last season's. We couldn't spend too much more because of FFP, so it makes sense to fatten out the squad with talented young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFish Posted October 30, 2023 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Really enjoy reading your posts Fish. Botman is a huge miss for you aswell, Lascelles is o.k but no more than that and got caught out and gave the FK that lead to second Wolves goal. You're far more vulnerable defensively this season with Pope maybe lacking a bit of confidence from being dropped from the England squad. Interested what happened with Maddison. I was certain back end of last season he was going to sign for you if you made CL. Not sure if he just wanted to sign for Spurs more or you passed him up in the end but I think him at the top end of midfield would've given you an extra dimension rather than just add Barnes who's decent but dosen't offer a huge amount of difference to Gordon and Almiron. Similar story to Diaby really, we were quoted north of £55m for him and his wage demands were too much. When Spurs came in they were quoted £40m and they could afford his wages. He would have been an absolutely been the perfect signing for us. Slots into our system perfectly, elevates our profile, huge upgrade on our existing players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, TheFish said: Wolves was what I feared; a tired, depleted squad unable to get over the line against an improving Wolves side. We'll have more of those until either our players come back in the new year, or we sign some more bodies in January. When you see the number of injuries you're accumulating and the tiredness of your regular starters, do you worry at all that Howe's high intensity style of football is not suited for the long-term (especially when you're playing extra games in Europe)? Bielsa's Leeds were billed as the 'fittest team in the league' and competitive against anyone until the wheels came off and then it crashed and burned quite spectacularly. And Klopp has evolved away from the 'Heavy Metal' gegenpress - either through choice or necessity - to something more conservative with significantly fewer sprints, less distance covered etc. I wonder how the rest of the PL season might go for Newcastle if they end up playing 50+ games and Howe can't (or won't) rest his first 11 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFish Posted October 30, 2023 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 37 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said: When you see the number of injuries you're accumulating and the tiredness of your regular starters, do you worry at all that Howe's high intensity style of football is not suited for the long-term (especially when you're playing extra games in Europe)? Bielsa's Leeds were billed as the 'fittest team in the league' and competitive against anyone until the wheels came off and then it crashed and burned quite spectacularly. And Klopp has evolved away from the 'Heavy Metal' gegenpress - either through choice or necessity - to something more conservative with significantly fewer sprints, less distance covered etc. I wonder how the rest of the PL season might go for Newcastle if they end up playing 50+ games and Howe can't (or won't) rest his first 11 more. I don't think it's suited for the long term no, but I'm not worried. We've already evolved from the style we played when Howe first joined. I'm confident that when we have a left back that's comparable to Trippier (I mean, as close as we can get), we'll shift away from having 3 at the back in attack and to a more balanced side. We need more quality at DM, more depth across the squad. I think we need to migrate to being more comfortable knocking the ball around patiently. But that's going to take time and the right personnel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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