The Randy Lerner thread

[brommy]

Sorry you're right, shouldn't have included him with KEA or Bowery.

Still doesn't change my opinion that the money could have been spent better.

Hindsight management is very easy. Are there many managers with a good 'hit:miss' ratio on a relatively low budget for top league football? Most would acknowledge the success of buying Benteke, and failure of buying KEA, but I suggest another season is required before most would know whether the likes of Westwood, Lowton and others were good, decent or poor purchases. Even with the benefit of hindsight, I'd be happy not to bother highlighting a failure, provided it was accompanied with one obvious success and one arguable success.

[Big_John_10]

Benteke is a massive success.

But he's built an incredibly shit defence. So shit in fact that for the first time in a premiership season we are going to concede 60 league goals. So incredibly shit in fact that our keeper is probably going to win player of the year as we break our premiership record for goals conceded.

I stand by my opinion that the money could have been spent better.

[brommy]

Benteke is a massive success.

But he's built an incredibly shit defence. So shit in fact that for the first time in a premiership season we are going to concede 60 league goals. So incredibly shit in fact that our keeper is probably going to win player of the year as we break our premiership record for goals conceded.

I stand by my opinion that the money could have been spent better.

It is obvious that any money spent on a player(s) that is not performing could have been spent better! As no club board/manager has ever acheived 100% success in that area, surely the important fact is the ratio of successes against failures, not just stating that money spent on a player, who turned out to be poorer than expected, was a waste.

[Big_John_10]

Yes and he's purchased an excellent player in Benteke and a decent player in Westwood.

On the flip side he's built an utterly shit defence and signed a few players that contribute very little.

I think he's way over on the failure side hence our shocking season and current position in the bottom 3.

Add that to his failures in terms of formation choices and the fact that we are one of the worst teams in the league for getting anything from a game when being behind and holding onto a lead and again i think the failures seriously outweigh the successes.

[Kingfisher]

In reference to the youths success, it's important for any club to have a good academy set up and credit to Lerner we have that.

[brommy]

Many pre-PL players have contributed to our downfalls this season. In order to isolate the PL signed players and judge their relative success, perhaps we should estimate their current values against their purchased values? I'd estimate that most of PL's transfers were worth as much, or more than we paid for them. A decent success given the poor season the collective team has had. PL is not 'way over on the failure side' and his transfers are not 'hence our shocking season and current position in the bottom 3'. Not to be negatively selective, without PL' s Benteke we'd be in the 'bottom 1'. As for pre-PL players contributing to our current predicament, I'll start you off with Clark...

[Pelle]

Yes and he's purchased an excellent player in Benteke and a decent player in Westwood.

On the flip side he's built an utterly shit defence and signed a few players that contribute very little.

I think he's way over on the failure side hence our shocking season and current position in the bottom 3.

Add that to his failures in terms of formation choices and the fact that we are one of the worst teams in the league for getting anything from a game when being behind and holding onto a lead and again i think the failures seriously outweigh the successes.

 

We have been shite at defending, it would be ridiculous to say something else. But do you think it's solely down to the defenders? Do you really think they've been enough protected by the midfield? I really don't. Our midfield has been somewhere between average and decent to provide our attacking players with good balls, but really shite at helping the defence. I remember the loss against wigan. The only midfielder that took some defensive responsibility was Bannan. He did a decent job considering he was all alone there. Ireland and Holman were both waiting up front to get the ball. It was infuriating to watch. Then there were a few mistakes from the defenders that lead up to the actual goals, but apart from that they didn't do that bad, but there attackers came through our midfield time after time. It's not easy being a defender when the midfield plays like that.

[paulfromsutton]

Couple of things from me.

 

I think it is more interesting to think of PL's purchases when they have a combined value of 14m like that Sun Jurno kept ranting about on twitter (why would he keep going on about it if it were not true)

 

Secondly I agree with Pelle, about the midfield the defence isnt THAT bad Bennett apart but when you look at the other 6 outfield players Benteke apart does Gabby & Andi provide enough defensive cover as a winger? Do they get wide to provide width to create chances and to run the balls in the channels to relieve presure from the central midfielders and defence?

 

We play with three in the middle and usually with two defensive midfielders, do they put themselves around enough? Do they make runs to join the attack enough? Bearing in mind we have two holding midfielders do they provide enough protection for the back four as one would expect with two holding midfielders?

 

No is my answer to all those questions.

 

The team is disjointed as we dont have the players for the system, plus Bennett is shite.

[briny_ear]

Many pre-PL players have contributed to our downfalls this season. In order to isolate the PL signed players and judge their relative success, perhaps we should estimate their current values against their purchased values? I'd estimate that most of PL's transfers were worth as much, or more than we paid for them. A decent success given the poor season the collective team has had. PL is not 'way over on the failure side' and his transfers are not 'hence our shocking season and current position in the bottom 3'. Not to be negatively selective, without PL' s Benteke we'd be in the 'bottom 1'. As for pre-PL players contributing to our current predicament, I'll start you off with Clark...

But PL is the one who has selected Clark consistently despite repeated evidence he isn't up to the job. He has also defended him and described him as "excellent". This surely reflects a bit on PL's judgement? Mind you, why is this debate going on here? It's the Randy Lerner thread!

Edited April 3, 2013 by briny_ear

[Big_John_10]

The defence hasn't been that bad? Are people serious?

We are going to let in over 60 league goals for the first time in the history of premiership football. Do you think that would happen if our defence wasn't that bad? Guzan has been outstanding and we've still let in a premiership record amount of goals. Think about that for a second. People are going to blame that on the midfield?

And while we're on about the midfield being shit Lambert has signed 4 midfield players to go along with the 3 defenders.

And people are going to argue its not more on the failures side?

3 defenders, 4 midfield players and if it wasn't for Guzan god knows how many goals we'd have let in this year. Ignore that if you want but it's quite a clear fact.

[brommy]

Many pre-PL players have contributed to our downfalls this season. In order to isolate the PL signed players and judge their relative success, perhaps we should estimate their current values against their purchased values? I'd estimate that most of PL's transfers were worth as much, or more than we paid for them. A decent success given the poor season the collective team has had. PL is not 'way over on the failure side' and his transfers are not 'hence our shocking season and current position in the bottom 3'. Not to be negatively selective, without PL' s Benteke we'd be in the 'bottom 1'. As for pre-PL players contributing to our current predicament, I'll start you off with Clark...

But PL is the one who has selected Clark consistently despite repeated evidence he isn't up to the job. He has also defended him and described him as "excellent". This surely reflects a bit on PL's judgement? Mind you, why is this debate going on here? It's the Randy Lerner thread!

I'm not sure why BJ has dragged PL's transfer record in to the RL thread, but my response was referenced to just that - BJ's declaration that PL's transfer record was 'way over on the failure side'. Despite the poor season, I disagree.

[sutherland]

Get MON back? The biggest con in English football has finally been found out. You couldn't pay me to get him back.

 

I think you will find that you would have to walk evey road in the uk and usa twice to find a bigger con than randy the coward lerner!

 

And you would still struggle to find one!

Edited April 3, 2013 by sutherland

[TRO]

Benteke is a massive success.

But he's built an incredibly shit defence. So shit in fact that for the first time in a premiership season we are going to concede 60 league goals. So incredibly shit in fact that our keeper is probably going to win player of the year as we break our premiership record for goals conceded.

I stand by my opinion that the money could have been spent better.

 

John, I tend to take the view that the TEAM can't defend rather than just the defence can't defend.

[Big_John_10]

Benteke is a massive success.

But he's built an incredibly shit defence. So shit in fact that for the first time in a premiership season we are going to concede 60 league goals. So incredibly shit in fact that our keeper is probably going to win player of the year as we break our premiership record for goals conceded.

I stand by my opinion that the money could have been spent better.

 

John, I tend to take the view that the TEAM can't defend rather than just the defence can't defend.

Agree to some extent.

But if we had a good defence to go along with Guzan we would not be letting in a premier league record amount of goals.

Many pre-PL players have contributed to our downfalls this season. In order to isolate the PL signed players and judge their relative success, perhaps we should estimate their current values against their purchased values? I'd estimate that most of PL's transfers were worth as much, or more than we paid for them. A decent success given the poor season the collective team has had. PL is not 'way over on the failure side' and his transfers are not 'hence our shocking season and current position in the bottom 3'. Not to be negatively selective, without PL' s Benteke we'd be in the 'bottom 1'. As for pre-PL players contributing to our current predicament, I'll start you off with Clark...

But PL is the one who has selected Clark consistently despite repeated evidence he isn't up to the job. He has also defended him and described him as "excellent". This surely reflects a bit on PL's judgement? Mind you, why is this debate going on here? It's the Randy Lerner thread!

I'm not sure why BJ has dragged PL's transfer record in to the RL thread, but my response was referenced to just that - BJ's declaration that PL's transfer record was 'way over on the failure side'. Despite the poor season, I disagree.

You disagree based soley on your opinion of those players.

The evidence backs up the argument that he's far over on the failures.

[KjParton]

The defence hasn't been that bad? Are people serious?

We are going to let in over 60 league goals for the first time in the history of premiership football. Do you think that would happen if our defence wasn't that bad? Guzan has been outstanding and we've still let in a premiership record amount of goals. Think about that for a second. People are going to blame that on the midfield?

And while we're on about the midfield being shit Lambert has signed 4 midfield players to go along with the 3 defenders.

And people are going to argue its not more on the failures side?

3 defenders, 4 midfield players and if it wasn't for Guzan god knows how many goals we'd have let in this year. Ignore that if you want but it's quite a clear fact.

When you say "for the first time in the history of premiership football" I presume you're talking about Aston Villa's premiership football history, not premiership history as a whole. 

 

Purely because Derby conceded 89 goals in the 07-08 season. 

[Big_John_10]

Of course I'm talking about our premiership history.

[dickyhell]

the defensive record is as much to do with the shockingly weak midfield as the lack of experience at the back.

[Big_John_10]

And like I said lambert has signed 4 midfield players.

Which again for me tips him well over onto the failure side of things.

[brommy]

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

[Pelle]

Player by player it's not that bad, but we've been awully unbalanced. Which is Lambert fault. He's failed to give us balance in the team. It's getting better, I think, but that's for me one of the biggest problems we've had this season. And the huge lack of experience among the players.