The Randy Lerner thread

[stanthemanisgod]

I'd except this but for one major flaw - He hasn't killed the club or even come close to it.

Any money we owe we owe to him so no danger of being wound up.

We have a high wage bill because we attempted to assemble a squad good enough to compete, we failed in achieving the overall aim but you cannot deny we got close.

Now money is a bit tighter, but it's nobody but Lerner that is saying the wage bill needs to come down to a % of income, and the main reason for that is ensure the club complies with the UEFA Financial regulations when they are enforced. No point having a squad capable of qulaifying for Europe if you're banned from the competition.

If he hadn't had spent big when he came in we'd still be where we are today, but without the 'highs' of the last few seasons, and probably with a fair few protests on the ground he was no better than Doug etc.

We were a nothing club when he took over (see our last trophy or European performance) we were an almost club for a few seasons and now we're back to being a nothing club. So tell me, bar a few players we dont want picking up wages, what is so wrong that we should abuse the owner.

[Big_John_10]

So nothing club under doug, not acceptable, protest protest protest!!!

Nothing club under randy, nothing wrong with it.

I'm confused.

Also why are the only 2 scenarios put forward spend loads and get us in trouble having a go or spend nothing?

You're telling me there was no way randy could have spent sensibly and kept a lot of fans happy in the process? Its ridiculous to think that fans would have complained if our wage bill hadn't gone too crazy levels.

[Zatman]

None of the other linked names at the time seem to be doing very well though - Sven and McLaren sacked from Championship clubs, Martinez - down at the foot of the table and Jol - not doing brilliant things with Fulham either.

forgot Deschamps

[stanthemanisgod]

The problem being only spending a little doesn't get you anywhere.

No ambition = protest, protest, protest

Our wage bill hasn't gone to crazy levels it's just too high compared to our income and Lerner has decided to address that before the UEFA regs come in.

But yeah you're right lets force Lerner out and see if the next guy can suddenly increase our income without spending big on players, or can bank roll another City type rise to power.

If he wanted to he could quite easily continue to fund our wages, the problem being we'd be refused entry from any European competition we qualified for.

If we still had Young, Downing, Cahill, Milner, NRC and didn't have Heskey, Beye, Ireland and Warnock, our wage bill would still be too high only nobody would mind because we'd be winning more games.

[Big_John_10]

Again its this notion that we either get to this point or spend nothing and the fans protest, you really don't see any other way where we wouldn't be at this point now and the fans would still be fairly happy?

We shouldn't have to force him out, as a self confessed villa fan he should be actively seeking someone to purchase the club who can do a better job than he has so far.

For some reason mediocrity under randy should be accepted and we should just be happy that he took a wild gamble for a few years.

[Houlston]

None of the other linked names at the time seem to be doing very well though - Sven and McLaren sacked from Championship clubs, Martinez - down at the foot of the table and Jol - not doing brilliant things with Fulham either.

forgot Deschamps

Ha ha yeah the man that could get us to the CL has a worse points to game ratio than us and in a far weaker league with a much better team.

[CI]

None of the other linked names at the time seem to be doing very well though - Sven and McLaren sacked from Championship clubs, Martinez - down at the foot of the table and Jol - not doing brilliant things with Fulham either.

Mark Hughes has got his handicap down to 4 and his garden is immaculate, so I guess he's doing ok

[stanthemanisgod]

But we're not spending nothing are we?

£24m in Jan

£16m approx this summer

That is decent spending in anybody's books. If we sold Milner, Young and Downing, let Friedel and NRC leave and not spent a penny you'd have a point.

So imo what lerner is doing now is doing what you suggest he should have done from the start.

What do you propose this better owner would do?

In my view there is only 2 options pull a Man City or carry on as we are. No new owner is going to come extend VP to 60k and fill it every game without building a squad capable of winning the league. No new owner is going to increase our revenue from world wide markets without building a squad that makes us more successful than Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. No new owner is going to change the UEFA Regs.

So please tell who is this new owner and what can he possibly do that is any different from what Lerner is doing?

[VillaRoy]

Has anyone spoke to Randy's right hand man, the General since the thread was closed? The appointment, the boss being backed, we'll finish 9th minimun, 4th be best, etc. I wonder if Randy thinks 9th would be our minumun this season?

We are basically a club that is stuck in an area where we are not really in major danger of relegation and in no danger of threatening any positions in the top quarter, or possibly third (I'd love to eat my words on this). Even silverware looks harder to get close to now, unless you play Rotheram, Brentford, us under Houllier, West Ham under Grant and an all over the place Arsenal in the final. To be fair, we have been this for a long time now, and the slight glimmer of hope we had a couple of years ago, is well and truly gone. This would be alright if our games were entertaining to watch and our players showed real fight throughout, which is obviously needed in this league if you want to do well. We had this under Martin to be fair, even if our football was not the greatest. I've been to Wolves at home, Newcastle at home, and Bolton in cup. This is a lot of money for me as been out of full time work since summer, and I've rarely seen such consistant dross at Villa Park in blumin years. I'm in no rush to spend the little money I've got if we are gonna keep getting served up such wimpish, dire footy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who shares this.

I was initially critical of the McLiesh appointment from Randy, but that was more shock and reaction than anything. Then I thought, yeah give him a chance, he could be good for us, make us solid and all that. Then his odd transfers sending Makoun out on loan, bringing in Hutton, trying to sign Steven Davis from Rangers, being knocked out of the cup, and our performances so far home and away. Positive, Gabby is playing well. The appointment of our manager was a mistake by Randy that we gotta live with now, though many saw it when it was announced.

I'd like to know if Randy is actively looking for further investment to help get his original goals for the club, back on track. I would have thought we'd be more of an attractive investment than a team like City were, already the biggest club in the second most populated area of the UK.

[Big_John_10]

That is decent spending in anybody's books

Not when you think about the money that came in from selling our best players. We've still spent less than whats come in from player sales over the last 2 summers.

So imo what lerner is doing now is doing what you suggest he should have done from the start.

Not really, i think he could have been more sensible with his spending and made less noise about 5 years plans and being back as a top team in europe when he first arrived. I think we could have slowly developd our squad leaving us in a better place now to mix with the kids coming through. Replacing quality players with inferior players at this point isn't going to see us shoot up the top of the table anytime soon. And theres not much he can do about that now because of his mistakes in the past.

What do you propose this better owner would do?

Maybe this new owner won't make decsions that result in a good manager leaving and won't appoint average or past it useless managers after this. Tbh because of the state he's allowed our wage bill to get to the only realistic aim would be a new owner bringing in the right man to be in charge. Although i don't mind mcleish i seriously doubt he's the man to make us a competitive team on such a restrictive budget.

[roadoftrinity]

You can't completely blame Randy for the wage bill, he was gambling on us been able to extend the ground, but unfortunately we just don't have the fan base that go to the games to do that.

[stanthemanisgod]

Not when you think about the money that came in from selling our best players. We've still spent less than whats come in from player sales over the last 2 summers.

We were only in a position to sell these players because his spending paid for them in the first place. The only player we've developed that we sold for any decent money was Barry. Milner, Young and Downing were all products of Lerner's spending

Replacing quality players with inferior players at this point isn't going to see us shoot up the top of the table anytime soon.

But without that spending we wouldn't have had those quality players in the first place.

In his 1st season we spent money but not on players of any lasting quality, but those players improved our position. The next summer the spending continued and the quality of the players got better, and so on.

Maybe this new owner won't make decsions that result in a good manager leaving and won't appoint average or past it useless managers after this. Tbh because of the state he's allowed our wage bill to get to the only realistic aim would be a new owner bringing in the right man to be in charge. Although i don't mind mcleish i seriously doubt he's the man to make us a competitive team on such a restrictive budget.

The way I see it our wage situation is not so much a mistake but something that has been made into an issue by external forces.

As I have discussed it's our income that now dictates our wage structure, and no new owner will improve our income without spending big on players.

I really struggle to see how any owner will attract a manger of sufficent quality to make Aston Villa a competitive club on such a restricted wage budget, if any such manager exists at all.

[barry'sboots]

You can't completely blame Randy for the wage bill, he was gambling on us been able to extend the ground, but unfortunately we just don't have the fan base that go to the games to do that.

Yes you can. Good business men, with a proper board, don't gamble. They make informed decisions and act on them.

Petrov and Heskey on £50k+. Who else would have taken those two of us and matched those wages? He overpaid (wages wise) IMO because he did not know the market and did not get the right advice.

Someone else asked earlier who the best chairman was. Whoever appointed David Dien at Arsenal would be my answer. A good chairman needs to put a good management team in place and use them well, not a bunch of yes men with no knowledge of the business or market it operates in.

[roadoftrinity]

You can't completely blame Randy for the wage bill, he was gambling on us been able to extend the ground, but unfortunately we just don't have the fan base that go to the games to do that.

Yes you can. Good business men, with a proper board, don't gamble. They make informed decisions and act on them.

Petrov and Heskey on £50k+. Who else would have taken those two of us and matched those wages? He overpaid (wages wise) IMO because he did not know the market and did not get the right advice.

Someone else asked earlier who the best chairman was. Whoever appointed David Dien at Arsenal would be my answer. A good chairman needs to put a good management team in place and use them well, not a bunch of yes men with no knowledge of the business or market it operates in.

But don't you agree that the fan base wasn't there that we thought we had? In our best ever Premier League season in the current format, plus a cup final and semi final, our ground was on average 90% full, around 14th on the list of the Premier League clubs, it was then Randy decided to scale back. So the fans have to share some of the blame.

[Bazdavies79]

Dein appointed Wenger. Without Wenger he would be just another average chairman.

I think MON should have to a lot of shoulder the responsibility for player contracts.

[PauloBarnesi]

Dein appointed Wenger. Without Wenger he would be just another average chairman.

I think MON should have to a lot of shoulder the responsibility for player contracts.

But ultimately the chain of command says its Randy who has to be responsible. If he didn’t like what was happening he could have stopped it. It was within his power. Looking at what has happened since MON left, you have to question Randy’s decisions.

[Big_John_10]

If i bought a business and employed a manager to deal with the day to day running of it i'm ultimatley responsible if it goes wrong. If theres problems then it would be up to me to solve it before it gets out of hand.

Randy as the one man who has more power at the club than any other has to take the responsibility.

[roadoftrinity]

Of course the owner is at fault, so is MON for not getting us to the Champions league when we were in such a great position, so are Man City for moving the goal posts, so are the fans for not turning up, so is the economic climate for effecting sponsership revenue.

We are where we are but it's not one persons fault, just a set of circumstances but we are in a better position than a lot of other clubs.

[CI]

Randys main fault appears to be not having a plan B

You can't fault him for having a real go in years 1-4, but now it's a vacuum

[roadoftrinity]

Randys main fault appears to be not having a plan B

You can't fault him for having a real go in years 1-4, but now it's a vacuum

True, but if he had given up completely as people think, we wouldn't have signed Shay Given and Charles N'Zogbia on wages higher than most of the teams outside the top 6 would pay.