thetrees Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 To be honest with you I have to agree with those above, I genuinely feel if Lambert had the type of money MON was given we would have gotten champions league. We wouldnt have gone seasons without full backs and signed average dross on inflated salaries. Probably wouldnt have bought Emile Heskey either when we were right in the fight for the Champs league! (And im not necessarily even Lamberts biggest fan!) Except that at the time O'Neill was employed Lambert was the 'failed' ex-Livingston manager, so VT would have gone into meltdown and the owner would have got complete shit from the off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 people basically want an oil merchant to come in and pump hundreds of millions into the club yet again. because of our performance in the transfer market.....but irrespective of the net worth of an owner, no right minded business man is going to subscribe to our record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 people basically want an oil merchant to come in and pump hundreds of millions into the club yet again. because of our performance in the transfer market.....but irrespective of the net worth of an owner, no right minded business man is going to subscribe to our record. Lerner can certainly be held accountable for hiring poor managers or not ensuring the clubs finances were in order from the off or even holding over ambitions of getting into the CL when this was unlikely giving the amount of money coming into the game. However, what he can't be accused of is our performance in the transfer market. He's not a "football man" (one of the most horribly overused phrases around at the moment) and would've trusted O'Neill when purchasing some of the expensive dross that he did. He provided the funds and provided the impetus for us to build on but the money was poorly spent and, after a couple of years of exciting football, we find ourselves here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 To be honest with you I have to agree with those above, I genuinely feel if Lambert had the type of money MON was given we would have gotten champions league. We wouldnt have gone seasons without full backs and signed average dross on inflated salaries. Probably wouldnt have bought Emile Heskey either when we were right in the fight for the Champs league! (And im not necessarily even Lamberts biggest fan!) Except that at the time O'Neill was employed Lambert was the 'failed' ex-Livingston manager, so VT would have gone into meltdown and the owner would have got complete shit from the off Haha Thetrees you know what I meant! (Perspective) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 What has Lambert achieved that makes people think we'd have got top 4 football with him. We didn't spend enough to get top 4 with MON yet somehow a manager who has finished once in the top half of the prem would get us there? I can understand the argument that a better manager than MON may have done it but to say Lambert would of is crazy IMO.people basically want an oil merchant to come in and pump hundreds of millions into the club yet again. I don't think there's many who would be against that but if you think that's all anyone who criticises Lerner wants then you don't read posts very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Firstly, he has appointed managers that as far as the team is concerned have added little value to improving our position....and as far as strengthening the team THEIR choices have proved to be poor. So poor managers have made poor choices. There's a surprise. But its not his fault for hiring poor managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 What has Lambert achieved that makes people think we'd have got top 4 football with him. We didn't spend enough to get top 4 with MON yet somehow a manager who has finished once in the top half of the prem would get us there? I can understand the argument that a better manager than MON may have done it but to say Lambert would of is crazy IMO. people basically want an oil merchant to come in and pump hundreds of millions into the club yet again. I don't think there's many who would be against that but if you think that's all anyone who criticises Lerner wants then you don't read posts very well. Dear God, it is putting things into perspective. Lambert is an "example" if you may, not many managers in the position we were come January would have made the critical errors O'Neill did transfer wise. Arsenal got Rosicky, we got Heskey. The places were more vulnerable then and we were one of the clubs with actual financial clout at the time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him? Right now I want him to be ambitious for the future, that will involve spending more money but its not just a case of wanting him to be stupidly rich or bankrupting himself. He's made awful decisions in the past so it would also be nice if he could cut them out as well. He's failed at the browns and us so overall I'd like him to be better at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) The bigging up of the O'Neil years always makes me smile. No higher than 6th and didn't win a trophy. At least have the decency to spell his name correctly. Martin O'Neill gave us one hell of a ride, we challenged (as far as possible) the teams competing for 4th and we scored a lot of goals. To be even close to winning anything you need the level of investment he got - and then some. It's pretty easy to criticize in retrospect, few people were complaining when we scored above 70 goals in the league one year! In his prime MON was lightyears ahead of Lambert, a level the current guy probably never will reach Please dont big up MON on here! 75% of the managers in the premier League, maybe Champions league could have done what he did with 140 million. It was never sustainable. Shame Lerner didnt work him out as quick as the Sunderland owners did. I can hear it now. "Mr Short im gonna need 100 million in the first season to get you midtable and 100 million to get to 6th and.....". Martin, please close the door on your way out!!! Edited January 26, 2014 by foreveryoung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 MON is always a great defence for those that continue to defend Lerner. Must just be a coincidence we carried on doing what those fans blame MON for, for the following 2 years after he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him? Right now I want him to be ambitious for the future, that will involve spending more money but its not just a case of wanting him to be stupidly rich or bankrupting himself. He's made awful decisions in the past so it would also be nice if he could cut them out as well. He's failed at the browns and us so overall I'd like him to be better at his job. So... you want him to spend more money . I don't really see how he's failed us to be honest. Our training facilities have improved (ambitious for the future!) and we've become self-sufficient (good for the future!). We're essentially no worse or better off in the league than we have been for as long as I can remember (a couple of good seasons, a couple of poor seasons - essentially mid-table). So, I'll put it to you again, aside from just spending money - what do you want from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 MON is always a great defence for those that continue to defend Lerner. Must just be a coincidence we carried on doing what those fans blame MON for, for the following 2 years after he left. I don't get why you keep bringing this up. Nobody has claimed that O'Neill is entirely to blame and that Lerner is blameless. No one has tried to deny that the club made some silly decisions even after O'Neill left. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) people basically want an oil merchant to come in and pump hundreds of millions into the club yet again. I don't think there's many who would be against that but if you think that's all anyone who criticises Lerner wants then you don't read posts very well. As an aside, by the way, I would absolutely be against this. It's always nice to have money spent on improving a squad, but I'd honestly hate to be Man City or Chelsea. Sounds weird, doesn't it? However, I really like the local things that the club still has. For example, I enjoy having kevan on here and reading about Jack Grealish's plights in the early days as a footballer. The fact that we promote players from within our own academy to play for the club. That we've not just had the soul of our club completely taken away. It's "bad enough" that we have a foreign owner, but I'd probably lose most of my interest in Villa if we became an oil club. Chelsea currently play 1 player that has come through their academy, and he was taken from West Ham as a youngster. No thanks. Edited January 26, 2014 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him?Right now I want him to be ambitious for the future, that will involve spending more money but its not just a case of wanting him to be stupidly rich or bankrupting himself. He's made awful decisions in the past so it would also be nice if he could cut them out as well. He's failed at the browns and us so overall I'd like him to be better at his job. So... you want him to spend more money . I don't really see how he's failed us to be honest. Our training facilities have improved (ambitious for the future!) and we've become self-sufficient (good for the future!). We're essentially no worse or better off in the league than we have been for as long as I can remember (a couple of good seasons, a couple of poor seasons - essentially mid-table). So, I'll put it to you again, aside from just spending money - what do you want from him? You don't really see how his failed us? The last two seasons are the lowest points totals we've ever had in the premiership. I never experienced 3 years of relegation battles in a row before. We're allowing our competition to catch and overtake us both on and off the field. We were a team that usually finished top 8 and now finishing top 8 is a challenge. No you're right he's done a great job. Edited January 26, 2014 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him? Right now I want him to be ambitious for the future, that will involve spending more money but its not just a case of wanting him to be stupidly rich or bankrupting himself. He's made awful decisions in the past so it would also be nice if he could cut them out as well. He's failed at the browns and us so overall I'd like him to be better at his job. So... you want him to spend more money . I don't really see how he's failed us to be honest. Our training facilities have improved (ambitious for the future!) and we've become self-sufficient (good for the future!). We're essentially no worse or better off in the league than we have been for as long as I can remember (a couple of good seasons, a couple of poor seasons - essentially mid-table). So, I'll put it to you again, aside from just spending money - what do you want from him? You don't really see how his failed us? The last two seasons are the lowest points totals we've ever had in the premiership? I never experienced 3 years of relegation battles in a row before. We're allowing our competition to catch and overtake us both on and off the field. We were a team that usually finished top 8 and now finishing top 8 is a challenge. No you're right he's done a great job. Do you think any of us are happy with this in the least? However we also see the OBVIOUS constraints the man is working under! Balance of opinion, Claret and Blue tinted glasses, and facts perhaps? Edited January 26, 2014 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him?Right now I want him to be ambitious for the future, that will involve spending more money but its not just a case of wanting him to be stupidly rich or bankrupting himself. He's made awful decisions in the past so it would also be nice if he could cut them out as well. He's failed at the browns and us so overall I'd like him to be better at his job. So... you want him to spend more money . I don't really see how he's failed us to be honest. Our training facilities have improved (ambitious for the future!) and we've become self-sufficient (good for the future!). We're essentially no worse or better off in the league than we have been for as long as I can remember (a couple of good seasons, a couple of poor seasons - essentially mid-table). So, I'll put it to you again, aside from just spending money - what do you want from him? You don't really see how his failed us? The last two seasons are the lowest points totals we've ever had in the premiership? I never experienced 3 years of relegation battles in a row before. We're allowing our competition to catch and overtake us both on and off the field. We were a team that usually finished top 8 and now finishing top 8 is a challenge. No you're right he's done a great job. Do you think any of us are happy with this in the least? However we also see the OBVIOUS constraints the man is working under! Balance of opinion, Claret and Blue tinted glasses, and facts perhaps? Any constraints Lerner is under are brought on by his mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So, aside from spending more money, what do you want of him? Right now I want him to be ambitious for the future, that will involve spending more money but its not just a case of wanting him to be stupidly rich or bankrupting himself. He's made awful decisions in the past so it would also be nice if he could cut them out as well. He's failed at the browns and us so overall I'd like him to be better at his job. So... you want him to spend more money . I don't really see how he's failed us to be honest. Our training facilities have improved (ambitious for the future!) and we've become self-sufficient (good for the future!). We're essentially no worse or better off in the league than we have been for as long as I can remember (a couple of good seasons, a couple of poor seasons - essentially mid-table). So, I'll put it to you again, aside from just spending money - what do you want from him? You don't really see how his failed us? The last two seasons are the lowest points totals we've ever had in the premiership? I never experienced 3 years of relegation battles in a row before. We're allowing our competition to catch and overtake us both on and off the field. We were a team that usually finished top 8 and now finishing top 8 is a challenge. No you're right he's done a great job. Do you think any of us are happy with this in the least? However we also see the OBVIOUS constraints the man is working under! Balance of opinion, Claret and Blue tinted glasses, and facts perhaps? Any constraints Lerner is under are brought on by his mistakes. Oh mate I didn't read the post properly I thought we were still on about Lambert. I actually agree with you to a certain extent regarding Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Oh mate I didn't read the post properly I thought we were still on about Lambert. I actually agree with you to a certain extent regarding Lerner. No probs. I'm critical of Lambert but I'm aware of the constraints he's worked under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Oh mate I didn't read the post properly I thought we were still on about Lambert. I actually agree with you to a certain extent regarding Lerner. No probs. I'm critical of Lambert but I'm aware of the constraints he's worked under. So if Lerner gives lambert 100 million in the summer and we still fail to get top 6, who's fault is it then. Huge risk for Lerner!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts