All-Purpose Religion Thread

[legov]

[StanBalaban]

Number 12 is an interesting one

[Chindie]

No evidence of mermaids, says US government

There is no evidence that mermaids exist, a US government scientific agency has said.

The National Ocean Service made the unusual declaration in response to public inquiries following a TV show on the mythical creatures.

It is thought some viewers may have mistaken the programme for a documentary.

"No evidence of aquatic humanoids has ever been found," the service wrote in an online post.

The National Ocean Service posted an article last week on its educational website, Ocean Facts.

Images and tales of mermaids - half-human, half-fish - appear in mythology and art from across the world and through history, from Homer's Odyssey to the oral lore of the Australian aboriginals, the service wrote.

The article was written from publicly available sources because "we don't have a mermaid science programme", National Ocean Service spokeswoman Carol Kavanagh told the BBC.

She said that at least two people had written to the agency asking about the creatures.

The inquiries followed May's broadcast of Mermaids: The Body Found, on the Discovery Channel's Animal Planet network.

The programme was a work of fiction but its wink-and-nod format apparently led some viewers to believe it was a science education show, the Discovery Channel has acknowledged.

BBC

Perhaps now they'll own up about God by the same logic?

Incidentally, it's this kinda thing that makes you think that, in some way, we more or less deserve extinction. Too stupid to live and all that.

[mjmooney]

Incidentally, it's this kinda thing that makes you think that, in some way, we more or less deserve extinction. Too stupid to live and all that.

More than half of all Americans believe they have been helped by a guardian angel in the course of their lives, according to a new poll by the Baylor University Institute for Studies of Religion. In a poll of 1700 respondents, 55% answered affirmatively to the statement, "I was protected from harm by a guardian angel." The responses defied standard class and denominational assumptions about religious belief; the majority held up regardless of denomination, region or education — though the figure was a little lower (37%) among respondents earning more than $150,000 a year.

The guardian angel encounter figures were "the big shocker" in the report, says Christopher Bader, director of the Baylor survey that covered a range of religious issues, parts of which are being released Thursday in a book titled What Americans Really Believe. In the case of angels, however, the question is a little stronger than just belief. Says Bader, "If you ask whether people believe in guardian angels, a lot of people will say, 'sure.' But this is different. It's experiential. It means that lots of Americans are having these lived supernatural experiences."

Sociologists may need further research to determine how broadly the data should be interpreted. The Baylor study tested other statements that might indicate a similar belief in the supernatural intruding into everyday personal experience — "I heard the voice of God speaking to me"; and "I received a miraculous physical healing." But far fewer people claimed to have had those experiences. This raises the possibility that guardian angels, which famously support an industry of sentimental accessories, are just so darned attractive that they exist in a charmed belief niche of their own.

But other factors may be in play. On one end of the spectrum of American religion are the analytical churches, on both the right and the left theologically and politically, which are primarily concerned with establishing Biblical principles to live by — and are suspicious of any modern-day irruption of the supernatural into religious life. Their miracles all took place in the Bible. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the more experiential churches, like many African-American denominations and those in the Pentecostal movement, that lay heavy emphasis on the workings of the Holy Spirit, where the supernatural, through gifts like healing, prophesying and speaking in tongues, makes regular visits in the pews. In the middle are sacramental faiths like Roman Catholicism, where the supernatural has a regular place on the altar (after all, the Eucharist is said to be the literal body and blood of Christ) but one that occurs only within the restrictions of very specific ritual.

What's interesting about the Baylor findings on guardian angel experiences is that they cross all boundaries. They have scriptural writ (in Psalm 91 and elsewhere). They are clearly experiential. And guardian angels are a prominent part of Catholic belief that happens to float freely outside of a sacrament. The cross-spectrum legitimacy of the notion of angelic interventions may free Americans to engage in the kind of folk faith that is part of almost any religious system but is not always officially acknowledged.

Randall Balmer, chairman of the religion department at New York's Barnard College, says that the Baylor angel figures are one in a periodic series of indications that "Americans live in an enchanted world," and engage in a kind of casual mysticism independent of established religious ritual, doctrine or theology. "There is," he says, a "much broader uncharted range of religious experience among the populace than we expect." Just possibly, Baylor has begun to chart it.

Link

[Chindie]

It's terrifying, it really is. We shouldn't be allowed near fire let alone anything else - we're too thick. Potentially a significant portion of the most powerful nation on earth believes in guardian angels.

We're doomed.

[BOF]

Eugenics is the answer Chindie

[Chindie]

Perhaps... but I prefer armageddon - it's the only way to be sure.

[Humanoid]

my local priest rationalised there was a seperate god for the old testamaent and the new testament.

Amazing.

Not quite so amazing given some critical study of the history of the bible, apocrypha and "history" of the Israelites. The "LORD God" of the old testament who was obsessed with gold, slaughter, sacrifice, and bloodshed, both of his own people and enemies, was hardly the god JC was pointing to when he said "forgive your enemies" etc.

There are many strange inconsistencies that can be found just by comparing different books in the bible. One is that "LORD God" of Genesis 2 onwards, may not be the same as "God" of Genesis 1 due to a change of titles, and neither may be the god JC claimed to be one with. This site click here is a useful resource for this.

There's a whole shitload of works out there that can easily turn the whole thing on its head. Not that this should negate worthy spiritual/metaphysical principles though, but should allow one to review such beliefs in a new light.

[legov]

Is it April 1?

[legov]

Incidentally, it's this kinda thing that makes you think that, in some way, we more or less deserve extinction. Too stupid to live and all that.

More than half of all Americans believe they have been helped by a guardian angel in the course of their lives, according to a new poll by the Baylor University Institute for Studies of Religion. In a poll of 1700 respondents, 55% answered affirmatively to the statement, "I was protected from harm by a guardian angel." The responses defied standard class and denominational assumptions about religious belief; the majority held up regardless of denomination, region or education — though the figure was a little lower (37%) among respondents earning more than $150,000 a year.

The guardian angel encounter figures were "the big shocker" in the report, says Christopher Bader, director of the Baylor survey that covered a range of religious issues, parts of which are being released Thursday in a book titled What Americans Really Believe. In the case of angels, however, the question is a little stronger than just belief. Says Bader, "If you ask whether people believe in guardian angels, a lot of people will say, 'sure.' But this is different. It's experiential. It means that lots of Americans are having these lived supernatural experiences."

Sociologists may need further research to determine how broadly the data should be interpreted. The Baylor study tested other statements that might indicate a similar belief in the supernatural intruding into everyday personal experience — "I heard the voice of God speaking to me"; and "I received a miraculous physical healing." But far fewer people claimed to have had those experiences. This raises the possibility that guardian angels, which famously support an industry of sentimental accessories, are just so darned attractive that they exist in a charmed belief niche of their own.

But other factors may be in play. On one end of the spectrum of American religion are the analytical churches, on both the right and the left theologically and politically, which are primarily concerned with establishing Biblical principles to live by — and are suspicious of any modern-day irruption of the supernatural into religious life. Their miracles all took place in the Bible. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the more experiential churches, like many African-American denominations and those in the Pentecostal movement, that lay heavy emphasis on the workings of the Holy Spirit, where the supernatural, through gifts like healing, prophesying and speaking in tongues, makes regular visits in the pews. In the middle are sacramental faiths like Roman Catholicism, where the supernatural has a regular place on the altar (after all, the Eucharist is said to be the literal body and blood of Christ) but one that occurs only within the restrictions of very specific ritual.

What's interesting about the Baylor findings on guardian angel experiences is that they cross all boundaries. They have scriptural writ (in Psalm 91 and elsewhere). They are clearly experiential. And guardian angels are a prominent part of Catholic belief that happens to float freely outside of a sacrament. The cross-spectrum legitimacy of the notion of angelic interventions may free Americans to engage in the kind of folk faith that is part of almost any religious system but is not always officially acknowledged.

Randall Balmer, chairman of the religion department at New York's Barnard College, says that the Baylor angel figures are one in a periodic series of indications that "Americans live in an enchanted world," and engage in a kind of casual mysticism independent of established religious ritual, doctrine or theology. "There is," he says, a "much broader uncharted range of religious experience among the populace than we expect." Just possibly, Baylor has begun to chart it.

Link

Define guardian angel.

The term could easily refer to any real-life person who played a major contributory role in the life of another person.

[BOF]

Define guardian angel.

The term could easily refer to any real-life person who played a major contributory role in the life of another person.

It's very clear from the article that they're not talking about the real-life kind. So there's no point in the usual VT nit-picking/'define it to the death' exercise here

[PussEKatt]

Define "Hell"s Angel"

Its a motorcycle gang.

[mjmooney]

Is it April 1?

No, that is correct, and pretty bloody absurd it is, too.

I'd love to know how many indigenous Brits know anything at all about the Battle of Waterloo, etc. (I know loads about it, but I'm a history geek).

Nothing much to do with religion though, so perhaps wrong thread?

[legov]

Is it April 1?

No, that is correct, and pretty bloody absurd it is, too.

I'd love to know how many indigenous Brits know anything at all about the Battle of Waterloo, etc. (I know loads about it, but I'm a history geek).

Nothing much to do with religion though, so perhaps wrong thread?

The article briefly mentioned something about acknowledging Britain's status as a historically Christian country, something like that. That was the part that irked me the most, because it sounded so far-right.

[mjmooney]

Is it April 1?

No, that is correct, and pretty bloody absurd it is, too.

I'd love to know how many indigenous Brits know anything at all about the Battle of Waterloo, etc. (I know loads about it, but I'm a history geek).

Nothing much to do with religion though, so perhaps wrong thread?

The article briefly mentioned something about acknowledging Britain's status as a historically Christian country, something like that. That was the part that irked me the most, because it sounded so far-right.

Ah, OK. Well, being devil's advocate, it is, technically. C of E is the official state religion.

Apparently Muslim immigrants are objecting to the words of "God Save the Queen", as they take "God" to be the Christian God, as opposed to Allah.

Two bald men fighting over a comb, as usual.

[Humanoid]

Is it April 1?

No, that is correct, and pretty bloody absurd it is, too.

I'd love to know how many indigenous Brits know anything at all about the Battle of Waterloo, etc. (I know loads about it, but I'm a history geek).

Nothing much to do with religion though, so perhaps wrong thread?

The article briefly mentioned something about acknowledging Britain's status as a historically Christian country, something like that. That was the part that irked me the most, because it sounded so far-right.

Perhaps it's no more different from applying for a passport that has "God and My Right" printed on it. Of course, an attempt to coerce people to perceive things strictly in certain way to the detriment of all other possibilities could be described as fascism, a job that the church and government have done so well for quite some time.

[legov]

Is it April 1?

No, that is correct, and pretty bloody absurd it is, too.

I'd love to know how many indigenous Brits know anything at all about the Battle of Waterloo, etc. (I know loads about it, but I'm a history geek).

Nothing much to do with religion though, so perhaps wrong thread?

The article briefly mentioned something about acknowledging Britain's status as a historically Christian country, something like that. That was the part that irked me the most, because it sounded so far-right.

Ah, OK. Well, being devil's advocate, it is, technically. C of E is the official state religion.

Apparently Muslim immigrants are objecting to the words of "God Save the Queen", as they take "God" to be the Christian God, as opposed to Allah.

Two bald men fighting over a comb, as usual.

Technically it is correct of course, but leaving that alone would be better given Britain (and Europe's) increasingly secular nature, although to be fair the writers of the proposal are probably trying to reverse that trend.

Especially worrying for me Mike, for obvious reasons

[TRS-T]

Do you guys think that RE should be a subject at school?

[Chindie]

No.

They don't teach Spider-man and Batman at school, and they contain just as many moral tales and about as much truth, and don't claim as truth many things that are patently wrong.

It would be better replaced with a proper 'citizenship' lesson - something that could teach you, at a younger age, about different cultures and so on that make up our society/world (with a very clear message of 'so and so believes this' without legitimising it which in my experience R.E. was loathe to do), and later on be used to give kids the tools to prepare for life in the modern world - understanding how to manage your finances and what not, getting a job... whatever.

A lesson specifically dedicated to teaching nonsense should not exist.

[coda]

I'd rather have GCSE French on my CV than GCSE RE (which I was forced to take).

During a RE lesson our teacher happened to mention Animal Farm which was met by sniggers from some pupils. He gave us a confused look. The next week he said "you lot disgust me".