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Spurs - Villa - we were never the same


VillanousOne
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I keep reading people stating how Spurs and Villa were once similar clubs and how they have kicked on and we fell apart.

Well maybe in the earlier years before Levy and there endless cashpit, but Lerner is no Daniel Levy and ENIC.

Spurs since the Premier League started have spent nearly 100 million more than us. Ok the argument around wages is valid, we somehow ended up spending more than them on that front but i would imagine that won't be the case for much longer.

Bottom line is Spurs spending isn't far off the rest of the top 4, they've spent more than Arsenal and made mistakes with more managers than you can shake a stick at, but Levy just keeps throwing money back in.

Spurs seem to get higher gates and higher revenue and have a better international fan base. I've argued this with spurs fans i know for years - but the bitter fact is this is true, a Midlands club - all be it the biggest and best midlands club - will always struggle to compete with a London club, who seem to have a never ending stream of finance and the ability to gamble on players at 10-15 mill or less and then flog them on at double the profit. Spurs have managed to somehow recoup most of their transfer spending that way, look at Carrick, Berbatov - and the gambles they have taken o Modric, Bale and Van Der Vart - all have paid off and if those players leave the club will double there investment.

My point is that we are living in the past and Spurs sadly are a million miles away right now, Lerner's short term vision and spunking cash on half baked transfers and high wages has really cost us (blame MON as well as he still chose those players). It was unsustainable, now unless we stay up and Lerner shocks us all by heavily investing then we need a far more longterm and cautious approach, the word transition is a horrible word, but we need to rebuild from the defence up. We desperately needed investment in the club in Jan, it didn't happen and i'm sure many wouldn't want McCleish spending any more money - but it was an odd strategy when you could see we were already struggling.

I have no love for Spurs and most of my life i have enjoyed bragging rights on the fact we almost always did better and beat them every season, now every bragging right we've ever had in this division (European trophy aside) has gone!

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For me Spurs will always be the biggest club in London, ahead of the tourist darlings Arsenal and the Johnny come lately Chelsea.

The difference between them and the Villa is location, location, location.

Oh, and they demand football all of the time. Spurs supporters wouldn't put up with an O'Neill or McLeish managing the playing side.

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At least we'vw won more than 2 league titles!

damn straight but i was kind of meaning since the league became the Premiership which is not to discount what went before.

our last honor was the Intertoto cup in 2001!

yep i by saying i don't discount what went before the premiership definitely means i am forgetting about our wonderful past!!!!!!!

But past being the key word here! It may mean a lot to us but it won't win you any arguments in the pub telling people 'hey we are a big club, after all who else can say they shared the Football League War Cup 1 in 1944!'

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Since the premier league started we've got more points than Spurs overall, finished above them more times, had the higher average attendance in far more seasons and finished in the higher league position.

We've both won 2 league cups but Villa have made the last major final and of course you mentioned we also won the Intertoto. :winkold:

Prior to the 09-10 season they had come in the top six twice in the premier league.

Hopefully that sets the record straight.

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  • VT Supporter

It has nothing to do with how much money you spend .....its to do with the quality of your recruits.

slight correlation some may say.... but it all hinges on the quality of the managers/scouting systems talent spotting.... not forgetting the first team coach to get them to gel.

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At least we'vw won more than 2 league titles!

damn straight but i was kind of meaning since the league became the Premiership which is not to discount what went before.

our last honor was the Intertoto cup in 2001!

In all fairness, since 1992, we've got more wins and points than Spurs.

Our problem is much more than not being in London, it's being in Birmingham. Manchester and Liverpool as cities know how to promote themselves, especially through music and the nightlife, but Birminghm is still seen as a nit of a dull place.

The football demanded at clubs lik Spurs, Liverpool, Man U over the years has had to be dynamic and flowing - hence fashionable. Even in our league and Euopean Cup winning years we were never advocates of the 'pass and move' philosophy. Big Ron was the nearest to bringing that to VP.

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yep and i did say until recently we have had bragging rights over them and their deluded fans. I wouldn't mind Spurs if it wasn't for their arrogant blinkered fans, no Arsenal or Chelsea fan i have ever met is as utterly deluded and clueless as them - they have always thought they were the Real Madrid of London.

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Why do you always bring up this location argument? I don't think there is much to support it and even if there is somehting in it, it is still way down the list of key factors in determining which club a player joins. Manchester and Liverpool aren't more important cities than Birmingham, yet teams fromm those cities regularly finish in the top 4 and sign big names. During the Prem era it's been true of Newcastle and Leeds also.

For some reason Villa have never gone after or been able to sign the big names of world and English football. It was something I mentioned in the thread about the signing that has most exicted you. Even Middlesbrough, which I think was voted worst place to live in England, signed some huge names. No matter where we are based, if one of the Sky 4 or City rival us for a player, they will nearly always turn us down. It even happened with Joe Cole, even though we had CL and Liverpool didn't. Money and club prestige, are way ahead of loaction. Also, Spurs Lodge is actually in Essex. It's a long way (time wise, not actual distance) from the famous glamour spots of London.

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Why do you always bring up this location argument? I don't think there is much to support it and even if there is somehting in it, it is still way down the list of key factors in determining which club a player joins. Manchester and Liverpool aren't more important cities than Birmingham, yet teams fromm those cities regularly finish in the top 4 and sign big names. During the Prem era it's been true of Newcastle and Leeds also.

For some reason Villa have never gone after or been able to sign the big names of world and English football. It was something I mentioned in the thread about the signing that has most exicted you. Even Middlesbrough, which I think was voted worst place to live in England, signed some huge names. No matter where we are based, if one of the Sky 4 or City rival us for a player, they will nearly always turn us down. It even happened with Joe Cole, even though we had CL and Liverpool didn't. Money and club prestige, are way ahead of loaction. Also, Spurs Lodge is actually in Essex. It's a long way (time wise, not actual distance) from the famous glamour spots of London.

You're right that money and prestige are ahead of location, but location carries its own prestige.

Just imagine a hypothetical star player on a Bosman. He can choose to go wherever he wants. All things being equal, he will choose London, even possibly a club like Fulham, which we are rapidly sinking to the level of in terms of prestige. If we sink to Fulham's level, where are the players going to want to go? The only way to persuade them to join Aston Villa is by offering higher wages. It's a positive feedback system, where the lower we sink, the more expensive it becomes to build back up. This has been going on for decade after decade with Villa: a steady decline only briefly halted when Randy was spending.

So overall I agree with the OP that we are on a hiding to nothing in the long run. The sensible thing to do is give up on football. If only I could.

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Why do you always bring up this location argument? I don't think there is much to support it and even if there is somehting in it, it is still way down the list of key factors in determining which club a player joins. Manchester and Liverpool aren't more important cities than Birmingham, yet teams fromm those cities regularly finish in the top 4 and sign big names. During the Prem era it's been true of Newcastle and Leeds also.

For some reason Villa have never gone after or been able to sign the big names of world and English football. It was something I mentioned in the thread about the signing that has most exicted you. Even Middlesbrough, which I think was voted worst place to live in England, signed some huge names. No matter where we are based, if one of the Sky 4 or City rival us for a player, they will nearly always turn us down. It even happened with Joe Cole, even though we had CL and Liverpool didn't. Money and club prestige, are way ahead of loaction. Also, Spurs Lodge is actually in Essex. It's a long way (time wise, not actual distance) from the famous glamour spots of London.

You're right that money and prestige are ahead of location, but location carries its own prestige.

Just imagine a hypothetical star player on a Bosman. He can choose to go wherever he wants. All things being equal, he will choose London, even possibly a club like Fulham, which we are rapidly sinking to the level of in terms of prestige. If we sink to Fulham's level, where are the players going to want to go? The only way to persuade them to join Aston Villa is by offering higher wages. It's a positive feedback system, where the lower we sink, the more expensive it becomes to build back up. This has been going on for decade after decade with Villa: a steady decline only briefly halted when Randy was spending.

So overall I agree with the OP that we are on a hiding to nothing in the long run. The sensible thing to do is give up on football. If only I could.

I think you have to push a hypothetical situtation to a rel extreme. In reallity I think other more important facts will always weigh in the favour of one club, before location even come into it. Southgate and JFH both turned down moves to Spus to go to Boro. It's not just money and prestige that are way ahead of loaction. It's current standing within the game, the manager, relationship with players at the potential new club, competition for places and so on. There are just so many factors that come into it before location. The chances of all these factors balancing out even and loaction becoming the decider is very slim, yet fans talk about it as if it's key.

It's true in rare cases, such as when a player has his family settled in a particular city. But overall the loaction argument is close to insignificant, yet gets massive emphasis from Villa fans in particular. When Ramos came to Spurs his first game was against Boro and I drove up there. It turns out that it really is a shit hole. I've been to Birmingham loads of times and it's not even remotely comparable to much of the north. It's got good rail links and an International Airport. It's got a lot going for it. Living in Sutton Coldfield or Solihull isn't exaclty the end of the world.

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Spurs pre Harry are where we are now. They chose the right manager and flew up the table. Spurs also has the advantage of football people around the club, but 5-6 years ago made many mistakes. This summer is a massive summer for us, we need a very good managerial appointment (something our board seem unable to do) and we need to spend every penny available well.

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