snowychap Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Point was the first one chap. See my reply to Ian's question as to why this thread has appeared In that post, you said: In addition, in my opinion, there will be a leadership change in that party before the GE How do you think that will come about? You also said: It is not as a result of some party line... I'm afraid that is how it comes about when you factor in the first quote. There may well be a fair few Labour members, voters and MPs who are not terribly happy with Miliband's performance (there may well be a majority who think he isn't an asset) but the majority of calls about there being a leadership change or challenge appear to come from Tories. Perhaps there is something in the idea either that the Tories wouldn't be too happy to have Miliband as leader in the run up to a General Election because there's only so much mileage one can get out of the 'brother' comments before it starts playing very badly to the electorate or that they are significantly worried about the prospects for the economy (on which they've really hung their own election prospects) in the next few years that they see their best electoral prospects as trying to divide the Labour party. Apologies that this has turned in to a discussion of Tory strategies but I most definitely get the impression that they're at the heart of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 It tends to suggest that the ordinary members and the leaders had, to a significant degree, the same view. that's possible / true enough ... but i live in a cynical world so I'm just not sure I can buy into that pov :-) as the findings suggested " it appears the trade union elites developed a strategy to re-establish their authority over the Labour Party. In effect, the block vote has been reinvented." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Point was the first one chap. See my reply to Ian's question as to why this thread has appeared In that post, you said: In addition, in my opinion, there will be a leadership change in that party before the GE How do you think that will come about? Well all parties have men in grey coats, it is my suspicion that those in Edward's party will be approaching him soon I'm afraid that is how it comes about .....Apologies that this has turned in to a discussion of Tory strategies but I most definitely get the impression that they're at the heart of the matter.Take my assurance, for what it is worth from Tory :winkold:, that is not the case in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Eh? That is not the point. PMQ is supposedly a time when the whole HoC can ask questions and expect answers from the PM. If that is the case then why was Flash Gordon using his question deflector shield for the last 12 months of his "reign" as PM? he was terrible when it came to answering questions directly in PMQs. KL you are not making any sort of sense now, sorry. I am assuming you are talking about Brown there. There was a often used argument especially from Cameron et al and his supporters on here that followed that same view. How then is it OK for Cameron to do the same if not more so? As pointed out Cameron is on record about not wanting to play that game, but as we all know he is on record saying a lot of things and not meaning them? Tory supporters cannot claim that their leader is statesmanlike and then be happy that he refuses to answer any questions that are not pre-arranged. Nor can they make the same claim and then be happy that he enters into something that would be considered lame in a sixth form end of term revue. It's quite simple, what rules do you want to play under? quite simply; I never said Cameron was statesmanlike Perhaps Cameron thought in difficult times he should swat the questions away like those before him. I don't it's right in not answering direct questions but he certainly isn't the master of question deflecting. That was Gords forte. Then again both the tories and labour when in the shadows have often asked where direct answers cannot be given, largely due to the fact that they would require specific figures or specific quotes from people. Perhaps they could answer more questions accurately if they were allowed to reference information quickly via some sort of interface. Most questions appear to be almost FOI requests asking for a quick answer to not a very quick question. Also not helped by the fact any sort of answer like "i don't have that info" or "I need to speak to mr X in more detail about this" would be seen as a sign of weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Well all parties have men in grey coats, it is my suspicion that those in Edward's party will be approaching him soon Do the Labour party have a history of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Shadow foreign secretaries are usually in the running for this sort of thing and I would expect Douglas Alexander's name to be mentioned. He's been doing A LOT of media work recently and not only on foreign policy issues. However it's always going to be difficult with him being a Scot, particularly after the last Scottish leader of the Labour party. There is no doubt that the quality of candidate is rather weak at present. I do beleive that Miliband D will lead the party at some stage but I don't think he'll want to take over from his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I am not EM biggest fan the jury is still out its interesting that the Media hype around Mlliband is orchestrated when he suddenly drops down in the polls!. I seem to recall that Milliband was leading Labour ahead in the polls 1 month ago, 6 months ago and come to think of it for the whole of the past year. Everyone then jumps on the band wagon when the ratings dropped. I find it exceedingly interesting that the media have decided to focus on the only time of year when Cameron has been ahead in the polls in particular Nick Robinson who is one of the most biased BBC political correspondents in the History of the largest export from the UK. In January February and March when the Christmas credit crunch bites harder that normal and the European disagreement is in the forgotten past. Will Cameron still be ahead in the polls and if so will the media be focusing on it...? I think not. If we are talking about EM being a poor leader, what does that say about Scameron not managing to lead his party to a majority in the houses of parliament: - - Labour were dead on their feet and had run out of steam after 12 years in government ( every government comes to an end) - The expenses scandal. - Scameron had the full backing of the media a huge influence just ask Tony Blair. - Financial backing of the richest in the business who had maximized there advertising campaigns years before they had started. - The Economy ect. This election was there for the taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Nick Robinson who is one of the most biased BBC political correspondents in the History of the largest export from the UK. Not sure that makes sense, but anyhow on the biased reporters you obviously do not listen to John Pienaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 In January February and March when...the European disagreement is in the forgotten past... I suspect it will be alive and kicking, and more of an issue. In fact, I think the tensions within the Tory party over Europe will resurface with a vengeance. It's the issue they can always tear themselves apart with. See for example this for an example of the visceral hatred it provokes, among fellow tories. Good spectator sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 If we are talking about EM being a poor leader, what does that say about Scameron not managing to lead his party to a majority in the houses of parliament: - - Labour were dead on their feet and had run out of steam after 12 years in government ( every government comes to an end) - The expenses scandal. - Scameron had the full backing of the media a huge influence just ask Tony Blair. - Financial backing of the richest in the business who had maximized there advertising campaigns years before they had started. - The Economy ect. This election was there for the taking.You carelessly forgot to mention the boundary changes the then Labour govt made which made it very difficult for the opposition to win outright control without the largest swing to them in a generation and without getting around 43-45% of the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irreverentad Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 In January February and March when...the European disagreement is in the forgotten past... I suspect it will be alive and kicking, and more of an issue. In fact, I think the tensions within the Tory party over Europe will resurface with a vengeance. It's the issue they can always tear themselves apart with. See for example this for an example of the visceral hatred it provokes, among fellow tories. Good spectator sport. If it gets up and running in the first place! I notice that it is beginning to look like it might not be the 26+1 anymore... Also be interesting to see what the French elections throw up and the consequnces for the EU's plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Nick Robinson who is one of the most biased BBC political correspondents in the History of the largest export from the UK. Not sure that makes sense, but anyhow on the biased reporters you obviously do not listen to John Pienaar OH but it does...! Do you know ONE of the UKs largest exports..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 As for Ed Milliband, an interesting comment from the Grud Ed Miliband has now fought five by-elections & won five, with big swings to Lab in all four English ones. Feltham = best yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irreverentad Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Can Nick Clegg do it? He changed his political beliefs lots before..... He could complete the set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 In January February and March when...the European disagreement is in the forgotten past... I suspect it will be alive and kicking, and more of an issue. In fact, I think the tensions within the Tory party over Europe will resurface with a vengeance. It's the issue they can always tear themselves apart with. See for example this for an example of the visceral hatred it provokes, among fellow tories. Good spectator sport. Will Scameron still be ahead in the polls though...? I guess time will tell. If he is not that will probably mean that Labour are ahead. What will that say then about Scameron if EM is a weak leader and still ahead in the polls. Oh WAIT a minute that's happened the majority of this year....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Can Nick Clegg do it? He changed his political beliefs lots before..... He could complete the set! Clegg was once a Tory party supporter - some say he still is :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I do wish that he came across better, there were some issues like the NHS reforms that Labour were completely anonymous on, the NHS reforms for one... John Healy as shadow should have spoke louder, Miliband ditto. He isn't great but it does worry me that their press office appears to be so bad. Pressure from a good opposition could significantly help the govt. make better decisions, it should be more sway-able as a coalition... Especially given the interest of the LDs in reigning in more conservative 'excesses' (can you have a conservative excess)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Can Nick Clegg do it? He changed his political beliefs lots before..... He could complete the set! Clegg was once a Tory party supporter - some say he still is :-) This is a given he is Torie he will do any thing with Cameron. (shudder)...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Nick Robinson who is one of the most biased BBC political correspondents in the History of the largest export from the UK. Not sure that makes sense, but anyhow on the biased reporters you obviously do not listen to John Pienaar Sky...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 If we are talking about EM being a poor leader, what does that say about Scameron not managing to lead his party to a majority in the houses of parliament: - - Labour were dead on their feet and had run out of steam after 12 years in government ( every government comes to an end) - The expenses scandal. - Scameron had the full backing of the media a huge influence just ask Tony Blair. - Financial backing of the richest in the business who had maximized there advertising campaigns years before they had started. - The Economy ect. This election was there for the taking.You carelessly forgot to mention the boundary changes the then Labour govt made which made it very difficult for the opposition to win outright control without the largest swing to them in a generation and without getting around 43-45% of the vote. Labour Goverment made the changes are you sure about that? where is your source. Interesting very interesting, it looks you failed to mention that the boundary reforms made it a lot harder for Labour to win a majority. Wasn't it the Boundary Commission that recommend boundary changes, Labour were actually adversely affected by those introduced for the 2010 GE. Not only have you failed to grasp the other main factors,but you are completely wrong about the point you made - you must be a Tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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