Could Noah's Ark hold all the animals?

[Bazdavies79]

Since 1950, In South Korea there have been more than 16,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses sentenced to a combined total of 31,256 years for refusing to perform military service. If alternative service is not provided.

WHY?... Because they had the courage to stand up for their convictions!

I never knew that, I applaud their bravery. But it has no bearing on the validity of the Noah's Ark story or indeed their religion, only empirical evidence can do that.

Inconsistencies, lack of supporting evidence and strong evidence to the contrary suggest to me that any religion I'm aware of came from the heads of people. I don't believe any religion, I think they're fictional stories. I also don't believe religion, on the whole, to be a healthy or positive thing for mankind.

I am agnostic with regard to the existence of a supernatural creator, it's one possibility, but I won't waste my time praying to it, as it obviously doesn't care, if it exists.

[limpid]

I wonder how many of the scientists at say, CERN are religious. And I wonder how many of those that are religious are fundamentalists/creationists.

I'd take a guess at:

50% agnostic

30% atheist

20% deist

0% creationist

I'm both agnostic and atheist. They aren't exclusive.

[mjmooney]

I wonder how many of the scientists at say, CERN are religious. And I wonder how many of those that are religious are fundamentalists/creationists.

I'd take a guess at:

50% agnostic

30% atheist

20% deist

0% creationist

I'm both agnostic and atheist. They aren't exclusive.

I know - we've done that at length.

My usage was the commonly understood (if somewhat inadequate) one.

[Risso]

...it just makes me more sure that what I've found is definitely the right way to live as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Do you never ever, even for a second, question the veracity of what you believe in Julie?

Without wishing to be offensive to you, you can plainly see from these pages that what you believe is bonkers to most other people.

Does that not make you sit down sometimes and think why?

Nop - Just like the published Nuclear/Astrophysicist I mentioned last night Dr ALTON WILLIAMS who worked for NASA on the Space Shuttle program, who is also one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I feel just the same as him.

The more I ‘raised my eyes high up’ to peer at the vastness, the complexity, and the beauty of the universe, the more I appreciated the work of the intelligent Designer who brought all of it about and established the laws that keep it all together.... Dr A. Williams 2004.

In fact when I look at the mess the world is in and getting worse by the day I and the many millions of Jehovah's Witnesses across the world - it makes our faith stronger as we see fulfillment of Bible prophecy growing more real.

As for views being scoffed at ... it means nothing... Jesus own words...

(John 15:18-19) . . .If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.

Nobody hates you Julie, at least I don't. I just think your views are exceedingly strange and based on ignorance and lies, and that your religion is an evil, twisted, malignant cancer on the world.

[Jondaken]

45 pages. Dont really use this site that much anymore, but do these threads still pop up every couple of months?

It's basically just the same 45 pages as all the other threads, with all the same people in it.

[Jondaken]

Nobody hates you Julie, at least I don't. I just think your views are exceedingly strange and based on ignorance and lies, and that your religion is an evil, twisted, malignant cancer on the world.

How can you say that without hating the person/people who adhere to that religion and actively try and get other people involved?

[limpid]

Nobody hates you Julie, at least I don't. I just think your views are exceedingly strange and based on ignorance and lies, and that your religion is an evil, twisted, malignant cancer on the world.

How can you say that without hating the person/people who adhere to that religion and actively try and get other people involved?

It's easy to say that, Risoo gives an example of how to say it and you quoted it.

[Wainy316]

Since 1950, In South Korea there have been more than 16,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses sentenced to a combined total of 31,256 years for refusing to perform military service. If alternative service is not provided.

WHY?... Because they had the courage to stand up for their convictions!

I never knew that, I applaud their bravery. But it has no bearing on the validity of the Noah's Ark story or indeed their religion, only empirical evidence can do that.

Yeah there is bloody loads here, all of which speak absolutely perfect English. It's true that nearly all male JW's do time as conscientious objectors.

They're not the only ones to reject national service though, many young Koreans deliberately break bones and cover themselves in tattoos to avoid service.

[Jondaken]

Nobody hates you Julie, at least I don't. I just think your views are exceedingly strange and based on ignorance and lies, and that your religion is an evil, twisted, malignant cancer on the world.

How can you say that without hating the person/people who adhere to that religion and actively try and get other people involved?

It's easy to say that, Risoo gives an example of how to say it and you quoted it.

Intelligent reply. Fits in this thread well.

[blunther]

Nobody hates you Julie, at least I don't. I just think your views are exceedingly strange and based on ignorance and lies, and that your religion is an evil, twisted, malignant cancer on the world.

How can you say that without hating the person/people who adhere to that religion and actively try and get other people involved?

Hate the sin, love the sinner...?

[JulieB]

Nobody hates you Julie, at least I don't. I just think your views are exceedingly strange and based on ignorance and lies, and that your religion is an evil, twisted, malignant cancer on the world.

I didn't say anyone hated me personally that's not what Jesus was saying.. he was saying that true Christians would be persecuted and hated as a class, because as with first Century Christian's they had a commandment from him to go out and tell people about God's government taking over responsibility for world affairs.

I don't know anyone who does hate me TBH who knows me personally because I genuinely will try and help anyone and I work hard in the

community I live in to make things better for everyone.

You of course are entitled to your opinion but my faith taught me to Love my fellow man....hence the reason why Jehovah's Witnesses are conscentious objectors and refuse military service and any part in killing their fellow human beings, even if that means putting their own life and liberty at peril.

Conscientious Objectors

[Bazdavies79]

My step grandfather was a conscientious objector in WW2, he was a staunch Atheist.

[limpid]

How can you say that without hating the person/people who adhere to that religion and actively try and get other people involved?

It's easy to say that, Risoo gives an example of how to say it and you quoted it.

Intelligent reply. Fits in this thread well.

Your question was so poorly worded that I thought it might have been a biblical quote. One with a few translation errors.

[ED]

I'm so glad this thread has brought out the limpid we all know and love. No Site Admin cap on, just raw anti-religious logical reasoning 8)

[JulieB]

My step grandfather was a conscientious objector in WW2, he was a staunch Atheist.

One of my oldest and dearest clients who died a few years ago was a complete agnostic but nevertheless a fearsome conscientous objector and campaigner for peace, a member of CND who was married to a Quaker. I had a number of wonderful conversations about nature and all things war and peace before he died. He was a famous botanist.

Did your father get put in Prison? The Botanist got an exemption because of his long held commitment to Peace.

I know some JWs who were locked up in Durham prison during the war. In the end they let one out though because he was an ambulance driver after deciding he was more use out of prison.

I'm sure there are many Atheists who are humanists and I find no reason to hate any of them or their beleifs even if they are not conscientous objectors.

[Risso]

You of course are entitled to your opinion but my faith taught me to Love my fellow man....hence the reason why Jehovah's Witnesses are conscentious objectors and refuse military service and any part in killing their fellow human beings, even if that means putting their own life and liberty at peril.

They won't go to fight murdering Nazis, but they'll let innocent children die for want of a blood transfusion. What a fine, upstanding group of people JWs really are, we really are fortunate to have them in the world.

[ED]

Ouch

[Bazdavies79]

My step grandfather was a conscientious objector in WW2, he was a staunch Atheist.

One of my oldest and dearest clients who died a few years ago was a complete agnostic but nevertheless a fearsome conscientous objector and campaigner for peace, a member of CND who was married to a Quaker. I had a number of wonderful conversations about nature and all things war and peace before he died. He was a famous botanist.

Did your father get put in Prison? The Botanist got an exemption because of his long held commitment to Peace.

I know some JWs who were locked up in Durham prison during the war. In the end they let one out though because he was an ambulance driver after deciding he was more use out of prison.

I'm sure there are many Atheists who are humanists and I find no reason to hate any of them or their beleifs even if they are not conscientous objectors.

He was my step grandfather (if that's the correct term), my grandmother re-married. Her first husband my real grandfather was religious, they met when he was in the army, but by all accounts he was an unpleasant man with a bad temper.

I'm not sure how my step grandfather fared with the law with regard to his refusal to fight, I never asked as I never thought to, but I do know he became a war medic of some sort, which may have spared him any trouble of that sort.

My point is, I don't think you need faith to have a peace loving moral compass, I don't see a correlation between faith and compassion and in any case, it has no bearing on the validity of any particular religion.

[JulieB]

They won't go to fight murdering Nazis, but they'll let innocent children die for want of a blood transfusion. What a fine, upstanding group of people JWs really are, we really are fortunate to have them in the world.

What!!! That's outrageous....

You need to check your history books Martin. Far from being a cancer.....

NO single Christian organisation stood up to the Nazis in Germany more than Jehovah's Witnesses. The Watchtower was exposing Nazism to the world as far back as 1929, when the Catholic Church and most of the rest of the World was turning a blind eye.

Beginning in 1929, these magazines, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses, boldly warned of the perils of Nazism, living up to the proclamation on the cover, “A Journal of Fact, Hope and Courage.”

“How can one remain silent,” asked Consolation in 1939, “about the horrors of a land where, as in Germany, 40,000 innocent persons are arrested at one time; where 70 of them were executed in a single night in one prison; . . . where all homes, institutes and hospitals for the aged, the poor, and the helpless, and all orphanages for the children, are destroyed?”

In June 1940, Consolation said: “There were 3,500,000 Jews in Poland when Germany began its Blitzkrieg . . . , and if reports which reach the Western world are correct their destruction seems well under way.” In 1943, Consolation noted: “Whole nations like the Greeks, Poles and Serbs are being exterminated systematically.” By 1946, The Golden Age and Consolation had identified 60 different prison and concentration camps.

The Swedish government produced a book on the Holocaust entitled "Tell Ye Your Children", which was distributed throughout the country free of charge to all households with children. This publication notes that Jehovah’s Witnesses “refused to swear an oath of allegiance to Hitler and Nazi Germany. Such resistance is exceptional because merely signing a document declaring their allegiance would have ended their persecution—yet few chose this option.”

In his book entitled “The Nazi State,” Professor Ebenstein of Princeton University wrote concerning Jehovah’s witnesses: “When the witnesses did not give up the struggle for their religious convictions, a campaign of terror was launched against them which surpassed anything perpetrated against other victims of Nazism in Germany. . . . The sufferings of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the camps were even worse than those meted out to Jews, pacifists or Communists. Small as the sect is, each member seems to be a fortress which can be destroyed but never taken.” Also regarding persecution of Jehovah’s witnesses, Richard Mathison states in his book God Is a Millionaire: “All this persecution has worn well. . . . And, perhaps, the sternly conventional have a lesson to learn from the unyielding courage of this persecuted minority.

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

@ Risso - actually in fairness to the Jehovah Witness's - the Nazis did kill and persecute a lot of Jehovah Witness's precisely for not doing national service in Germany . They were made an illegal cult there.