Djemba_Villan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I like his honesty if I'm honest, I think that is a god virtue to have.What honesty? This is the man that consistently talks about how we played well when in actual fact we did the exact opposite. This is the man that said he was going to sort out the defence months ago but still hasn't. The list goes on and on. McLeish is a nasty liar. I don't think there has been a successful manager in football who has come out after a crap performance and said "oh my - we were awful, that was embarracing". That is reserved for the likes of McCarthy, Holloway, Dowie.... You can see in his face, he is livid, the players won't have been told that they played well - I dont think anyway. There is little point ruining the confidence of the young players in the squad by worsening the media/fan reaction by adding fuel to the fire by supplying them with quotes. Look what happened to Curtis Davies for example...he had one bad game, he likened it to a "pub player", every article about him for the rest of his Villa career contained that sentance...it made it harder to shrug off. I know its not popular, but nowerdays Brian Clough-alikes don't work. (MON is a very diluted version). It's all about PR, saving face, maintaining some sort of mentality within your squad. Mourinho, Wenger, Fergie - they are genuises at this, you wouldnt get them saying ill thought out "heat of the moment" statements which will harm morale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djemba_Villan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Personally, I'm as despondant over Villa as anyone else (and associate a lot if this to McLeish) HOWEVER I think its more constructive to look at the bigger picture:- He has been in charge for a very short period of time He inherited an addmitedly decent (not brilliant) squad who didn't know where they were - having played under 4 managers in a year He has had no option but to work on the dicipline of the squad He has had no option but to try to instil some bite to the squad He HAS been let down massively by some of our bigger players He seems as fed up as us with the poor passing - I don't personally blame him for Warnock's, Delph's, N'Zogs, Albrighton and Bannan's terrible passing on Sunday With the current squad we're a league below Liverpool/Ars/Man U.Man C/Chelsea/Spurs, so playing toe to toe WILL lead to disaster Our natural league position currently I would say is 9th-12th He does - in fairness have SOME dynamicism (no hoofing vs Liverpool),(Backs against walls when needed),(Several tried formations) He isn't QUITE as negative as made out, though he is no Martinez. I see glimmers of hope that he has tried to integrate flair, though the role Bent is playing is not suited to a goalscorer, his movement is creating space for Gabby - hence why Gabby seems a new player. Whilst having some optimism is obviously a good thing, there are a few points there I would challenge: He seems as fed up as us with the poor passing - I don't personally blame him for Warnock's, Delph's, N'Zogs, Albrighton and Bannan's terrible passing on Sunday Although some of the passes were just bad mistakes that anyone should be able to make, it's unsurprising that we weren't that good as a passing team when we've playing long-ball football season - and that is McLeish's fault. Our natural league position currently I would say is 9th-12th Although it is, we're at mid-table with a ridiculously difficult Xmas schedule - I think we'll actually be lower than 12th after the Chelsea game. And we've dropped points against sides that really we should be beating. Also the league this year is pretty misleading, considering we're just 6 points from the relegation zone. He does - in fairness have SOME dynamicism (no hoofing vs Liverpool),(Backs against walls when needed),(Several tried formations) No hoofing vs Liverpool, but the first time we try and play some passing, our best finisher is not even on the pitch. Bent would relish some balls into the channels but when he's playing we just start hoofing. We were also 2-0 down at the time, so neat football with no purpose was just ridiculous to watch. I think you've made some really good points. Part of me thinks that he may have reacted to a lot of the criticism in trying to play slighly more expansively against Liverpool - he forwent his probable better instict - which would have been to leave Delfouneso out - matching them in midfield. The two conceded goals were a disaster, which even he couldn't account for tactically. This rapid change probably did contribute to the abysmal passing as it wasn't second nature, but maybe it is also possible that we overegg the capability of the likes of Albrighton, Bannan, Delph. They are learning, but not ready yet for being importaint players in demanding games. The league position I would agree is false, I was going to state that, realsistically id place us 14th (accounting for the upcomign fixtures), I think my point was that he is underperforming, but not to the extend that some would believe. 6th is a pipedream, 8th is ambitious, 10th is acceptable, 12 would be 'meh', 14th at the end of the season - dissapointing, any lower terrible - thats my opinion (and i generally lean more optimistic - someone has to ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 McLeish says utter crap like we play like Holland. He actually thinks we were good against Man U at times. He said Downing was "not going anywhere" - few days later sold. He says sorting out defending set plays is priority and will sort it out in training .Same problems happens next game time after time . Frankly the bloke whether he realises it or not routinely talks bullshit. So much so its not worth listening to anything he says. he is bullshit man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think you've made some really good points. Part of me thinks that he may have reacted to a lot of the criticism in trying to play slighly more expansively against Liverpool - he forwent his probable better instict - which would have been to leave Delfouneso out - matching them in midfield. The two conceded goals were a disaster, which even he couldn't account for tactically. This rapid change probably did contribute to the abysmal passing as it wasn't second nature, but maybe it is also possible that we overegg the capability of the likes of Albrighton, Bannan, Delph. They are learning, but not ready yet for being importaint players in demanding games. The league position I would agree is false, I was going to state that, realsistically id place us 14th (accounting for the upcomign fixtures), I think my point was that he is underperforming, but not to the extend that some would believe. 6th is a pipedream, 8th is ambitious, 10th is acceptable, 12 would be 'meh', 14th at the end of the season - dissapointing, any lower terrible - thats my opinion (and i generally lean more optimistic - someone has to ) I definitely agree that the change in style against Liverpool was a reaction to the negative comments made about his style. But then surely that makes him look like a weak manager? I know he can't win: he's plays crap football, he's boring; he changes it, he's weak. But it does make me wonder whether he knows what our best formation is, or our best style of play. I feel confused watching us, like we have no real concrete approach towards winning games. Even MON had a strategy: get it out wide and ping as many crosses in as possible. Wasn't always the nicest, and rarely changed, but players knew what they were doing. I've got a feeling we'll finish about 14th or 15th. I don't think we'll ever be in danger of the drop, but I doubt we'll be competitive at mid-table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 McLeish says utter crap like we play like Holland. Did he actually say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I like his honesty if I'm honest, I think that is a god virtue to have.What honesty? This is the man that consistently talks about how we played well when in actual fact we did the exact opposite. This is the man that said he was going to sort out the defence months ago but still hasn't. The list goes on and on. McLeish is a nasty liar. I don't think there has been a successful manager in football who has come out after a crap performance and said "oh my - we were awful, that was embarracing". That is reserved for the likes of McCarthy, Holloway, Dowie.... You can see in his face, he is livid, the players won't have been told that they played well - I dont think anyway. There is little point ruining the confidence of the young players in the squad by worsening the media/fan reaction by adding fuel to the fire by supplying them with quotes. Look what happened to Curtis Davies for example...he had one bad game, he likened it to a "pub player", every article about him for the rest of his Villa career contained that sentance...it made it harder to shrug off. I know its not popular, but nowerdays Brian Clough-alikes don't work. (MON is a very diluted version). It's all about PR, saving face, maintaining some sort of mentality within your squad. Mourinho, Wenger, Fergie - they are genuises at this, you wouldnt get them saying ill thought out "heat of the moment" statements which will harm morale.He doesn't have to come out and say we played crap. All he has to do is just avoid saying we played well when we clearly didn't. This isn't the only thing he lies about though. Whatever happened to playing attacking football? What about how before every big game this season he's called for "aggression" or "fire" yet every single time there has been neither? He's a prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Maybe the players are letting him down? They certainly did against Liverpool. There is nothing the manager can do when a player cannot make a single pass. We were better off lumping it it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrums Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 McLeish says utter crap like we play like Holland. Did he actually say this? Yes he did, it was on the official website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 But we're not even like evil Holland, as we rarely lay a glove on the opposition. Bar Swansea, we gave them something of a shovelling. Where's this quote, I want to see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Maybe the players are letting him down? They certainly did against Liverpool. There is nothing the manager can do when a player cannot make a single pass. We were better off lumping it it. Surely this is McLeish's decision? I'm pretty sure he didn't say to them "Spend the whole game lumping it to Heskey" and then the players turn around and play a passing game. McLeish gave in to the pressure about his style and tried to change it. Well, when those players have been playing route one football all season, how likely is that a passing game is going to be perfect on a cold evening against a better side? Barcelona didn't become pass masters during one game. You need consistency for anything to get good. McLeish just doesn't seem to know what to do with the team. If he wants to do route one then fine, it's not pretty, but he's got to make it work, not just change it because we're having a moan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Maybe the players are letting him down? They certainly did against Liverpool. There is nothing the manager can do when a player cannot make a single pass. We were better off lumping it it.Well then why not come out and give them a kick up the backside? Fair enough don't do it every time, but if it's happening consistently (which it is) then why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Maybe the players are letting him down? They certainly did against Liverpool. There is nothing the manager can do when a player cannot make a single pass. We were better off lumping it it. Surely this is McLeish's decision? I'm pretty sure he didn't say to them "Spend the whole game lumping it to Heskey" and then the players turn around and play a passing game. McLeish gave in to the pressure about his style and tried to change it. Well, when those players have been playing route one football all season, how likely is that a passing game is going to be perfect on a cold evening against a better side? Barcelona didn't become pass masters during one game. You need consistency for anything to get good. McLeish just doesn't seem to know what to do with the team. If he wants to do route one then fine, it's not pretty, but he's got to make it work, not just change it because we're having a moan. Exactly. If McLeish got them playing good passing football all the way back to Hong Kong instead of making them hoof first thing then passing the ball wouldn't be an alien concept to them. The players are so use to seeing the ball fly over their head it's now gonna be very hard to adapt to this style. I'm sure he'll revert back to hoof against Arsenal no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 He said Downing was "not going anywhere" - few days later sold. I'm pretty sure he said it would take a big offer for him to leave - which we received. Or shall we also blame McLeish for Downing handing in a transfer request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The offer he mentioned was far more than what we accepted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 After the Man U game :- McLeish calls for more Dutch courage from his wingers Alex McLeish on approach. 8th Dec 2011 By Paul Brown Alex McLeish wants his forwards to show more Dutch courage - as they aim to wing it up front. McLeish has revealed his 4-3-3 formation, evident in the match against Manchester United, is based on the Dutch system. Under this set-up, the mindset of the team's wideman is of the utmost importance. When one has the ball in crossing position, the other must bust a gut to support the lone striker. McLeish says Villa didn't do nearly enough of that in the Red Devils clash. If he continues with this system against Bolton, he's eager for more support given to Darren Bent. McLeish said: "The disappointment of the Manchester United first half was we didn't get much support into the centre of the pitch and in the last third we held our positions more than we should of in terms of the flanks. "When we do play the three up front, we are looking for the two wide men to get in and support the striker. You have to get into the back post. That's something we're trying to emphasise. "It's a kind of Dutch system. If you watch their system every week you see the winger remit when the ball is the other side, is getting in the box. "You see the winger coming in to help the centre-forward. We didn't see enough of that in the first half! "We got more aggressive in the second half, we got higher on them which is what we asked for in the first half, believe it or not. "We got that in the second half and we had some little opportunities which could perhaps have seen us getting a point. It wasn't to be. "There's another opportunity this weekend. We've got to go there and be positive and that's what training has been in the last few days. "I always think we've got a chance and I believe the same thing for the Bolton game." http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2541068,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 He said Downing was "not going anywhere" - few days later sold. I'm pretty sure he said it would take a big offer for him to leave - which we received. Or shall we also blame McLeish for Downing handing in a transfer request? He specifically said Downing was "not going anywhere" unless there was an offer of £50 million. He was sold few days later. £20 million for Downing was good and i blame the board but McLeish again was made to look incompetent with that silly comment . The board admitedly undermined him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 McLeish calls for more Dutch courage from his wingers Alex McLeish on approach. 8th Dec 2011 By Paul Brown Alex McLeish wants his forwards to show more Dutch courage - as they aim to wing it up front. McLeish has revealed his 4-3-3 formation, evident in the match against Manchester United, is based on the Dutch system. Under this set-up, the mindset of the team's wideman is of the utmost importance. When one has the ball in crossing position, the other must bust a gut to support the lone striker. McLeish says Villa didn't do nearly enough of that in the Red Devils clash. If he continues with this system against Bolton, he's eager for more support given to Darren Bent. Although I think claiming that you base your system on any team is dangerous, as it inevitebly makes you look silly if it doesn't work, I do remember our first goal against Bolton was scored by Albrighton, coming in off the wing to support Bent in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 He said Downing was "not going anywhere" - few days later sold. I'm pretty sure he said it would take a big offer for him to leave - which we received. Or shall we also blame McLeish for Downing handing in a transfer request? He specifically said Downing was "not going anywhere" unless there was an offer of £50 million. He was sold few days later. £20 million for Downing was good and i blame the board but McLeish again was made to look incompetent with that silly comment . The board admitedly undermined him there. No, I don't see it that way. He was sold a week later. After putting in a transfer request - Downing forced the move nobody else. It was perfectly reasonable for McLeish stating he didn't want to sell when the assumption was Downing wanted to stay months previously. I don't blame McLeish at all for the sale or the board. It's just how football works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So why not just say to him NO, you signed a contract and you are staying.....Modric anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I feel a sebaticle to non league coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts