Houllier: Back him or sack him?

[sellyoakvilla]

And that is the exact reason why we don't run a football club, Fran.

[ChrisNichollsToe]

I don't know what has got into our fans recently that was just mindless, how is it ever going to make things better.

Frustration? Anger maybe? both mixed with a feeling of helplessness? :shock:

Is that going to help us score a goal with 10mins to go in a game? Just gives players like Gabby an excuse to give up as they want him gone anyway. We can keep losing games and moaning at the manager but its not going to help us. Randy won't sack him because we sang a song, no chance.

TBH, i never heared the chanting from where i was stood. To busy arguing with the away fans in a vain attempt to keep warm. These things should wait until after the final whistle........unless your six-nil down :winkold:

[Neil]

I hope Randy see's sense and give's him the chop before we get down around 25k, most fans think its absolutely ridiculous to keep him on,and that he doesnt deserve a January to sort things out.

The only way this could be positive is if they have a ready suitor available to sign tomorrow with a list of players already contacted to sign in January.

Unforunately we are between a rock and a hard place, I suppose if we can get the right manager who can make our current team perform better that would help too. But who the hell is that going to be?

[Houlston]

I hope Randy see's sense and give's him the chop before we get down around 25k, most fans think its absolutely ridiculous to keep him on,and that he doesnt deserve a January to sort things out.

The only way this could be positive is if they have a ready suitor available to sign tomorrow with a list of players already contacted to sign in January.

Unforunately we are between a rock and a hard place, I suppose if we can get the right manager who can make our current team perform better that would help too. But who the hell is that going to be?

Exactly

[mykeyb]

Think abou tit - if you really believed in a person why the hell would you give them chance to resign ?

To ask whether he was still committed, NOT to say "It's the end of the line, walk away with your head held high"

I dont see that sorry.

If my boss came to me and said things arent going as we had hoped do you want to resign its not the sort of thing to fill me with confidence.

If the board asked him if he wanted to resign and he said no so they are backing him it does come across as they dont want to pay him off but wouldnt be adverse to the idea of him walking.

Talk about being indecisive

[sellyoakvilla]

Fine, we sack Houllier, who replaces him? We can't keep having short term managers otherwise we have to keep starting again every single season.

Kevin Macdonald - no thanks, should never even be considered as a long term replacement for Houllier.

Sam Allardyce - branded a long ball specialist and a shite manager by most on here previously but now he's good enough for Villa? Ok to get us out of this mess but If Randy won't sack Houllier what makes you think he will sack Allardyce after he's got us out of this mess?(which isn't even proven that he will) and then we will be stuck with long ball route one set piece football for 4 years.

Martin Jol - Can someone please tell me what he has done to warrant such an approval from almost all Villa fans? He wasted money at Tottenham and got sacked in October, he's won one cup with Ajax and that's it. Houllier has infact won more than him in his managerial career. Infact Houllier won more honours than him at Lyon than he has in his whole career. It seems the majority are just going along with this candidate because he's the best person available, would he do better than Houllier? Not too sure.

Who else?

[Dom_Wren]

Houllier will stay, Randy will back him. IMO.

Wether that will be enough to keep us up is unknown.

[Richard]

We need someone to land running, with a proven track record, who knows the players and the club and what we need and can get more out of this bunch than the current idiot. We cannot afford to gamble with an unknown we need a known source of success and almost guaranteed better results starting against our neighbours and amanager who has never lost to them on our side

MON

[Neil]

We need someone to land running, with a proven track record, who knows the players and the club and what we need and can get more out of this bunch than the current idiot. We cannot afford to gamble with an unknown we need a known source of success and almost guaranteed better results starting against our neighbours and amanager who has never lost to them on our side

MON

If he doesnt mind managing us until the end of the season only.

Otherwise no deal.

[Didiersix]

Surprised this hasn't been posted already, but Neil Moxley of the Daily Mail has given Houllier a right old shoeing here:

From dailymail.co.uk

From dailymail.co.uk:

Let's imagine for a minute that you had deliberately set about sabotaging Aston Villa Football Club.

Bearing in mind that you had to remain in paid employment to carry out your dastardly plan, what would you do?

For a start, you could alienate the senior players who helped the club to a sixth-placed finish last season.

You could publicly belittle a new £8million signing, who admitted he was short of confidence at his unveiling, knowing that his brittle mental state would cause him to disappear from view.

You could continue a long feud with your star striker, the leading goalscorer over the past three seasons.

You could commit a large chunk of the club's money to a has-been, a late thirty-something who will play a bit-part in the season.

You could over-play the youngsters. Watching their confidence ebb away as results worsen along with the league position.

You could return to a former club, make a big show about how much you still feel for that former club without a second's thought for the fact you are representing your current one.

You could then bring back your senior players in a bid to save face, only to see them fail to support you where it matters most: out on the pitch.

You could hold team meetings, ask players to air their thoughts without fear of repercussion - and then axe them from the squad when they suggest improvements.

The fanzine editors at Birmingham City don't even need to make this up. 'Return to your St Andrew's base, agent Houllier, your job is almost done.' A cheap shot, yes, but what else does Gerard Houllier expect?

The fact of the matter is that had it not been for Ciaran Clark's late equaliser against a Chelsea team that is clearly struggling itself for form and confidence, Aston Villa would be sitting rock-bottom.

Villa owner Randy Lerner must be wondering where his cash has gone. He's blown the best part of £200m so far. And for what? European qualification - that, when push came to shove, was worth diddly-squat in Martin O'Neill's eyes.

Of course, the American has to admit culpability in one regard. After all, he's been the one writing the cheques. But surely he deserves better than this?

At this point, I'll hold my hands up. I advocated giving Houllier a chance. That was before he embarked on his one-man mission to lead Villa into the Championship.

I understand Lerner does not want to be seen as a 'hire 'em, fire 'em' chairman. That's all well and good. If people out there think industry is ruthless, let me tell you it has nothing on football.

It's why such outmoded characteristics like values and principles are long gone. It's professional sport - ie cash is involved. And lots of it.

I remember walking across Leicester City's training pitch with Micky Adams one day and asking how many managers he could count as friends. Micky is a personable guy, likeable, plays golf, enjoys a drink, family man, etc.

'Not many pal,' came the reply, 'when we go out there, it's war.'

So that's what's at stake. Actually, people's livelihoods would be lost at Villa Park, were the unthinkable to happen. Perhaps Mr Lerner should take that into account. I'm sure he does, he's a stand-up kinda guy. (If you'll pardon the Americanisation) But just when do you just hold up your hands and admit that you got it wrong?

After what took place on Wednesday night, it's surely a matter of time. In my opinion, Villa fans are quite slow to anger. Generally, they will put up a fair amount before being taken to a breaking-point. After that, beware.

Graham Taylor never had a problem - mainly because Graham understood the club. John Gregory - a manager with whom my own relationship was stretched on occasion - never had that problem either. Nor did Brian Little. Or Ron Atkinson. People who understood what Aston Villa was. And understood too it's core support. But just recently that has been lost.

On a personal level, I got on fine with David O'Leary. But the minute the classic banner went up in the Holte End: 'We're not fickle, we just don't like you,' he was always on to a loser.

Moscow will always loom large whenever Martin O'Neill's name is mentioned. For all the fact that he produced on the pitch, that will never be forgotten.

And whatever else Houllier does as Villa's boss, fans will always refer to that night at Anfield. I've sat and listened a number of times now to the Frenchman and I'm not convinced he realises how deeply the hurt was felt.

Most importantly, however, the noises coming from the dressing-room are appalling. Hark back to the Bolton game earlier this season. Ashley Young scores and races over to celebrate with caretaker boss Kevin MacDonald. Chances of that being repeated under the new Villa boss? Erm, nil.

Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner do have an option to hand. They used MacDonald earlier this season as a stop-gap and he is the man to rally the dressing-room and bring back those alienated players. He is a Villa man. Someone who understands what the club is about. He will put a smile back on the players' faces. After all, he was responsible for earning seven of the points the club's now sitting on.

So, I return to a point I made earlier in the piece. Just how bad does it have to get before a change is made? Sheffield United in the FA Cup? Or at St Andrew's in 10 days' time?

The home fans are already voting with their feet. The crowd was down for Sunderland's visit on Wednesday night. Those that were there cried: 'You're getting sacked in the morning,' at their own manager. I mean, what else can you do to prove that you have had enough.

The writing is on the wall. Time to push the button, write the cheque and move on. The season isn't over for Aston Villa just yet. But much more of this macabre soap opera and it soon will be.

[Shillzz]

Would be over the moon, but that aint happening.

[Houlston]

We need someone to land running, with a proven track record, who knows the players and the club and what we need and can get more out of this bunch than the current idiot. We cannot afford to gamble with an unknown we need a known source of success and almost guaranteed better results starting against our neighbours and amanager who has never lost to them on our side

MON

If he had left in different circumstances then i believe this would be the best solution by some distance. But to leave 5 days before kick off is totally unforgivable and just shows the type of person he is and the low regard he had for the club and the fans.

[sellyoakvilla]

At the end of the day Houllier has tried to change everything far too quickly and has struggled as this is O'Neill's team. That's it really. It isn't easy working with other people's tools. No further argument or reasoning, but probably further implications.

[fran_villa]

Fine, we sack Houllier, who replaces him? We can't keep having short term managers otherwise we have to keep starting again every single season.

Kevin Macdonald - no thanks, should never even be considered as a long term replacement for Houllier.

Sam Allardyce - branded a long ball specialist and a shite manager by most on here previously but now he's good enough for Villa? Ok to get us out of this mess but If Randy won't sack Houllier what makes you think he will sack Allardyce after he's got us out of this mess?(which isn't even proven that he will) and then we will be stuck with long ball route one set piece football for 4 years.

Martin Jol - Can someone please tell me what he has done to warrant such an approval from almost all Villa fans? He wasted money at Tottenham and got sacked in October, he's won one cup with Ajax and that's it. Houllier has infact won more than him in his managerial career. Infact Houllier won more honours than him at Lyon than he has in his whole career. It seems the majority are just going along with this candidate because he's the best person available, would he do better than Houllier? Not too sure.

Who else?

at the moment we need a british or english style manager to get these players going,because thats the type of football they are used to. for me Sam is the best that we could bring straight in. even curbs would be better than what we have imo. for what reason do you think GH is the right man to lead us out of the mess he has got us into??.the players seem to hate him, most of the fans hate him at this stage so what makes him so good, i'm sure he's never been in a relegation battle in his life so what makes GH so qualified to get us up and running?.

[fran_villa]

this is O'Neill's team. That's it really. It isn't easy working with other people's tools

It is MON's team alright, but any decent manager imo should be able to go in and get something out of a team of players, it is normal for this to happen you know, do you think he should be able to just bring in 11 new players or something??.

[sellyoakvilla]

Fine, we sack Houllier, who replaces him? We can't keep having short term managers otherwise we have to keep starting again every single season.

Kevin Macdonald - no thanks, should never even be considered as a long term replacement for Houllier.

Sam Allardyce - branded a long ball specialist and a shite manager by most on here previously but now he's good enough for Villa? Ok to get us out of this mess but If Randy won't sack Houllier what makes you think he will sack Allardyce after he's got us out of this mess?(which isn't even proven that he will) and then we will be stuck with long ball route one set piece football for 4 years.

Martin Jol - Can someone please tell me what he has done to warrant such an approval from almost all Villa fans? He wasted money at Tottenham and got sacked in October, he's won one cup with Ajax and that's it. Houllier has infact won more than him in his managerial career. Infact Houllier won more honours than him at Lyon than he has in his whole career. It seems the majority are just going along with this candidate because he's the best person available, would he do better than Houllier? Not too sure.

Who else?

at the moment we need a british or english style manager to get these players going,because thats the type of football they are used to. for me Sam is the best that we could bring straight in. even curbs would be better than what we have imo. for what reason do you think GH is the right man to lead us out of the mess he has got us into??.the players seem to hate him, most of the fans hate him at this stage so what makes him so good, i'm sure he's never been in a relegation battle in his life so what makes GH so qualified to get us up and running?.

I don't necessarily think he is the right man for the job and even I was walking out of VP last night thinking he was clueless for not making any subs until the 88th minute, but it would be irrational and incredibly foolish to sack him at the start of January when we are desperate for some players. By the time a new manager has come in and assessed the squad, had a few games to see who can play for him/who can't and identified targets, it will be February. It's just not feasible at this moment in time, if he was going to go he would have gone in December

[juanpabloangel18]

He forgot:

- delaying his arrival for 2 weeks for seemingly no reason, faffing around in France doing God knows what

- announce upon his delayed arrival that AVFC are a '10-12 club' and that we are not respected in Europe

[Richard]

delaying his arrival for 2 weeks for seemingly no reason, faffing around in France doing God knows what

I wouldn't have a go for that, how did we do in the two weeks he was not here?

[fran_villa]

Surprised this hasn't been posted already, but Neil Moxley of the Daily Mail has given Houllier a right old shoeing here:

From dailymail.co.uk

From dailymail.co.uk:

Let's imagine for a minute that you had deliberately set about sabotaging Aston Villa Football Club.

Bearing in mind that you had to remain in paid employment to carry out your dastardly plan, what would you do?

For a start, you could alienate the senior players who helped the club to a sixth-placed finish last season.

You could publicly belittle a new £8million signing, who admitted he was short of confidence at his unveiling, knowing that his brittle mental state would cause him to disappear from view.

You could continue a long feud with your star striker, the leading goalscorer over the past three seasons.

You could commit a large chunk of the club's money to a has-been, a late thirty-something who will play a bit-part in the season.

You could over-play the youngsters. Watching their confidence ebb away as results worsen along with the league position.

You could return to a former club, make a big show about how much you still feel for that former club without a second's thought for the fact you are representing your current one.

You could then bring back your senior players in a bid to save face, only to see them fail to support you where it matters most: out on the pitch.

You could hold team meetings, ask players to air their thoughts without fear of repercussion - and then axe them from the squad when they suggest improvements.

The fanzine editors at Birmingham City don't even need to make this up. 'Return to your St Andrew's base, agent Houllier, your job is almost done.' A cheap shot, yes, but what else does Gerard Houllier expect?

The fact of the matter is that had it not been for Ciaran Clark's late equaliser against a Chelsea team that is clearly struggling itself for form and confidence, Aston Villa would be sitting rock-bottom.

Villa owner Randy Lerner must be wondering where his cash has gone. He's blown the best part of £200m so far. And for what? European qualification - that, when push came to shove, was worth diddly-squat in Martin O'Neill's eyes.

Of course, the American has to admit culpability in one regard. After all, he's been the one writing the cheques. But surely he deserves better than this?

At this point, I'll hold my hands up. I advocated giving Houllier a chance. That was before he embarked on his one-man mission to lead Villa into the Championship.

I understand Lerner does not want to be seen as a 'hire 'em, fire 'em' chairman. That's all well and good. If people out there think industry is ruthless, let me tell you it has nothing on football.

It's why such outmoded characteristics like values and principles are long gone. It's professional sport - ie cash is involved. And lots of it.

I remember walking across Leicester City's training pitch with Micky Adams one day and asking how many managers he could count as friends. Micky is a personable guy, likeable, plays golf, enjoys a drink, family man, etc.

'Not many pal,' came the reply, 'when we go out there, it's war.'

So that's what's at stake. Actually, people's livelihoods would be lost at Villa Park, were the unthinkable to happen. Perhaps Mr Lerner should take that into account. I'm sure he does, he's a stand-up kinda guy. (If you'll pardon the Americanisation) But just when do you just hold up your hands and admit that you got it wrong?

After what took place on Wednesday night, it's surely a matter of time. In my opinion, Villa fans are quite slow to anger. Generally, they will put up a fair amount before being taken to a breaking-point. After that, beware.

Graham Taylor never had a problem - mainly because Graham understood the club. John Gregory - a manager with whom my own relationship was stretched on occasion - never had that problem either. Nor did Brian Little. Or Ron Atkinson. People who understood what Aston Villa was. And understood too it's core support. But just recently that has been lost.

On a personal level, I got on fine with David O'Leary. But the minute the classic banner went up in the Holte End: 'We're not fickle, we just don't like you,' he was always on to a loser.

Moscow will always loom large whenever Martin O'Neill's name is mentioned. For all the fact that he produced on the pitch, that will never be forgotten.

And whatever else Houllier does as Villa's boss, fans will always refer to that night at Anfield. I've sat and listened a number of times now to the Frenchman and I'm not convinced he realises how deeply the hurt was felt.

Most importantly, however, the noises coming from the dressing-room are appalling. Hark back to the Bolton game earlier this season. Ashley Young scores and races over to celebrate with caretaker boss Kevin MacDonald. Chances of that being repeated under the new Villa boss? Erm, nil.

Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner do have an option to hand. They used MacDonald earlier this season as a stop-gap and he is the man to rally the dressing-room and bring back those alienated players. He is a Villa man. Someone who understands what the club is about. He will put a smile back on the players' faces. After all, he was responsible for earning seven of the points the club's now sitting on.

So, I return to a point I made earlier in the piece. Just how bad does it have to get before a change is made? Sheffield United in the FA Cup? Or at St Andrew's in 10 days' time?

The home fans are already voting with their feet. The crowd was down for Sunderland's visit on Wednesday night. Those that were there cried: 'You're getting sacked in the morning,' at their own manager. I mean, what else can you do to prove that you have had enough.

The writing is on the wall. Time to push the button, write the cheque and move on. The season isn't over for Aston Villa just yet. But much more of this macabre soap opera and it soon will be.

Good read well put imo.

[juanpabloangel18]

delaying his arrival for 2 weeks for seemingly no reason, faffing around in France doing God knows what

I wouldn't have a go for that, how did we do in the two weeks he was not here?

home draw against bolton and last minute loss to stoke. what's the point? My point is why was he not desperate to get over here and get to grips with the team?