Stephen Ireland

[C4rvillan]

Bergkamp had to move from Italy to England. Ireland lives an hour and a half away from BH. Played in the Premier league for many seasons. He shouldn't need to settle in full stop.

As for not in their class, YOU stated that his passes are too clever for our players so what league is he in then?

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Out of position? What's his position then?

No one cries if you put in a bad performance, Downing weren't great last year but most fans I think still wanted to give him time. Ireland though has just shown a terrible attitude and work ethic game after game when he should be doing everything he can to show himself to want to be and have a future at the club.

He's played in the Premiership before, no one questions his quality but his mentality is dire.

[Super-Villan]

K-Mac and Houllier have both played him in the Petrov role. Whatever you think he might be, that's not a role I think he would be familiar with playing.

Sorry C4rvillan, you're allowed to use Arshavin as a comparisson, but I'm not allowed to use Bergkamp? I don't think distance travelled is any more of a problem than being short of match practice myself though. And remember that a lot of the players you mention were going into successful teams, clearly different from the situation Ireland found himself in. Unless you're blaming our current position entirely on him?

I agree his workrate hasn't been the best, and his performances in general. But I'll say for the hundredth time, they atill aren't as bad as some others, and I'm partly excusing him because of the awful way he's been handled by Ged. A decent manager would have put an arm around a player like Ireland, not kicked him in the teeth. Even if you don't have much time for players who need an arm around them, it was still a stupid thing to do as it will drive his price down when we do sell him.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

K-Mac and Houllier have both played him in the Petrov role. Whatever you think he might be, that's not a role I think he would be familiar with playing.

Sorry C4rvillan, you're allowed to use Arshavin as a comparisson, but I'm not allowed to use Bergkamp? I don't think distance travelled is any more of a problem than being short of match practice myself though. And remember that a lot of the players you mention were going into successful teams, clearly different from the situation Ireland found himself in. Unless you're blaming our current position entirely on him?

I agree his workrate hasn't been the best, and his performances in general. But I'll say for the hundredth time, they atill aren't as bad as some others, and I'm partly excusing him because of the awful way he's been handled by Ged. A decent manager would have put an arm around a player like Ireland, not kicked him in the teeth. Even if you don't have much time for players who need an arm around them, it was still a stupid thing to do as it will drive his price down when we do sell him.

He played CM, vs Bolton, Vienna, Newcastle under K-Mac.

Houllier has played him in the hole, in his actual position vs...

Burnley, Sunderland, Chelsea, Liverpool, Blackburn.

Unless you're telling me he plays somewhere else?

[fran_villa]

K-Mac and Houllier have both played him in the Petrov role. Whatever you think he might be, that's not a role I think he would be familiar with playing.

Sorry C4rvillan, you're allowed to use Arshavin as a comparisson, but I'm not allowed to use Bergkamp? I don't think distance travelled is any more of a problem than being short of match practice myself though. And remember that a lot of the players you mention were going into successful teams, clearly different from the situation Ireland found himself in. Unless you're blaming our current position entirely on him?

I agree his workrate hasn't been the best, and his performances in general. But I'll say for the hundredth time, they atill aren't as bad as some others, and I'm partly excusing him because of the awful way he's been handled by Ged. A decent manager would have put an arm around a player like Ireland, not kicked him in the teeth. Even if you don't have much time for players who need an arm around them, it was still a stupid thing to do as it will drive his price down when we do sell him.

well said SV..

[OutByEaster?]

He's played in the Premiership before, no one questions his quality but his mentality is dire.

Actually, I'd question his quality - we sometimes talk about him as if he's a player from the very top bracket, when actually he's had one good season - I think he's more Lee Hendrie than Joe Cole.

[gilbertoAVFC]

I'm sort of on the fence for this one. Ireland was the ONE player I have thought could turn Villa into a top four side (ok that wasn't anticipating Milner left, but still), I literally wanted him and no-one else. He has so much talent and I still think that he could turn into a very key player for us.

That said, his performances and work-rate, have not nearly been good enough. I rate him so highly but if you can't be arsed, you've got to go. I don't want us to get rid of him in Jan, because I think he can still make a serious impact, but if he doesn't start to deliver the goods soon after that, he may as well be off. I he doesn't want to be here, he sure as hell isn't going anywhere better if he carries on playing the way he is!

[Super-Villan]

He's played in the Premiership before, no one questions his quality but his mentality is dire.

Actually, I'd question his quality - we sometimes talk about him as if he's a player from the very top bracket, when actually he's had one good season - I think he's more Lee Hendrie than Joe Cole.

I agree his mental state is an issue. But that's kind of my point really. From a football side, you want the best out of him, you don't slate him to the press. And from a purely human side as well.

I think Joe Cole would kill to play as well as Lee Hendrie right now.

[CitizenBlue]

I think CB is right, his main motivation is ££££, especially considering he's suing City even though he flagged them off as soon as he joined hence the confidentiality agreement payment was held back, and now he's suing! I'd rather him do talking on the pitch rather than off it!

It's not like he asked to leave, is it? He wanted the pay-off because he was basically being forced out of City, and was agreeing to join a club on lower wages. As I say, I'm pretty sure he'd have been earning at least as much just staying at City. The boy wanted to play. He's not SWP.

He was forced out of City because he half-assed it on the pitch and complained when he didn't get playing time, thus disrupting the team.

Mancini has embraced hard workers like Gareth Barry and Nigel De Jong even if they're not the most skillful players. If Ireland had half of De Jong's motivation, he'd be his country's captain.

[Ulver]

I think Joe Cole would kill to play as well as Lee Hendrie right now.

You're not wrong. He's been as bad for Liverpool as Ireland has for us

Seems to have the same lack of desire and work ethic too

Apparently becaus ehe needs to feel loved and treated like a puppy

Ar diddums

[OutByEaster?]

He's played in the Premiership before, no one questions his quality but his mentality is dire.

Actually, I'd question his quality - we sometimes talk about him as if he's a player from the very top bracket, when actually he's had one good season - I think he's more Lee Hendrie than Joe Cole.

I agree his mental state is an issue. But that's kind of my point really. From a football side, you want the best out of him, you don't slate him to the press. And from a purely human side as well.

I think Joe Cole would kill to play as well as Lee Hendrie right now.

For me though, it's not about his mentality, the player underneath isn't a world beater, he's good, but he's not that good.

[Maradona10]

HE has stated that HE wants to leave. It's in the Irish press and GH confirmed it. **** him off!

If my manager at work treated me like that I'd want to leave too, don't blame him at all. But itit's not just that he wants to leave, it's that Ged wants him to leave at least as much if not more.

Why the hell do we try and compare the situation to ourselves? If Ireland didn't have chances, you tell me a game where you thought you know what that Ireland is some player? I was all for giving him a chance as theirs no doubting his ability, but he is more of a problem than an asset. You keep saying to me, what does the claim against City have to do with it? To me it shows a player who has been absolute pants is more interested in getting one over on his former club than trying to be a success at his new one.

[Maradona10]

Citizen Blue has it spot on, he is a disruption. He wants GH to constantly give him praise but can't take constructive criticism.

[Super-Villan]

If it shows to you that he is more interested in the money, then that is entirely your assumption and nothing to do with whatever the truth might be. There is no evidence for that view at all. It might be his lawyer/agent pushing it and Ireland just saying 'yeah, OK' and not giving it a second thought.

Constructive criticism? Hahahahaha. OK, if you think all that Ged has said about him in the press was constructive then I'm leaving it there, we're really just not ever going to agree.

[Maradona10]

Look as a City fan said to me, there's 3 managers now who have taken Ireland out of the side, Houllier, Hughes and Mancini, it's only so long he can keep saying it's the managers fault, but he has done nothing in his games and I'd say in every game he has not contributed. Oh come of it, if a professional footballer cannot take criticism then he might aswell quit, so when they play well they expect praise and a pay rise but when they play shit, the manager can't say that?

[C4rvillan]

Sorry C4rvillan, you're allowed to use Arshavin as a comparisson, but I'm not allowed to use Bergkamp? I don't think distance travelled is any more of a problem than being short of match practice myself though. And remember that a lot of the players you mention were going into successful teams, clearly different from the situation Ireland found himself in. Unless you're blaming our current position entirely on him?

Right then Maximus, where should I start?

YOU first made it clear Ireland needed a settling in period. To which I said he doesn't need a settling in period as he lives less than 100 miles away from his current employers and is still plying his trade in familiar surroundings. I used Arshavin as an example as to how good players (on similar wages to Ireland) can hit the ground running even IF they have come from a different country. YOU then used Bergkamp as an example of how they don't to which I countered that he HAD to leave another country to ply his trade in which case I would agree that he needed a settling in period. It has nothing to do with who you can use and who you can't.

Furthermore, to my knowledge, Ireland has been played in a far more advanced position that Petrov (the only exception being against Rapid at home when he was further back).

Successful teams?? We had just had our best season for ages (including 2 trips to Wembley). Is this not successful? Ireland even stated in his first season that he was looking forward to playing in one of the Prems strongest teams.

[Super-Villan]

Well there are plenty of players who came from the same country who needed settling in periods too if you want it that way. Downing for one. He had the excuse of an injury to recover from, and Ireland has the excuse of not playing much football last season and being frozen out at City, plus an understanbable lack of confidence. One of those players was given a chance and is playing brilliantly. The other is being treated like rubbish and forced out of the club.

Ireland has played deep midfield a number of times, including the second half of a game recently, I forget which one exactly.

Our team is in 15th place and deserves to be because of how we're playing. Either you're saying 15th is successful or the fact that we're in 15th is Irelands fault. I disagree.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Well there are plenty of players who came from the same country who needed settling in periods too if you want it that way. Downing for one. He had the excuse of an injury to recover from, and Ireland has the excuse of not playing much football last season and being frozen out at City, plus an understanbable lack of confidence. One of those players was given a chance and is playing brilliantly. The other is being treated like rubbish and forced out of the club.

Ireland has played deep midfield a number of times, including the second half of a game recently, I forget which one exactly.

Our team is in 15th place and deserves to be because of how we're playing. Either you're saying 15th is successful or the fact that we're in 15th is Irelands fault. I disagree.

No he hasn't. He's played deep 3 times and in the hole 5 times.

He's produced absolutely **** all in 8 starts. Compare that to someone like Heskey who's started 7 times I believe this season and been excellent.

[markavfc40]

The manager is clearly incapable, like with so many of the players, of getting the best out of him so its probably best he moves on.

[Jez]

The manager is clearly incapable, like with so many of the players, of getting the best out of him so its probably best he moves on.

Apart from the young players and getting them to perform against Chelsea and Utd?