Rough Trade - The Milner/ Ireland Deal

[terrytini]

Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

The best managers are in jobs, Jol is currently in a job, he is the best we can hope for because he is or was looking to move to another club.

The other managers who we could get aren't currently working for any club.....To me that don't sound like they're the best.

Why throw money at possible managers who aren't the best when we have a perfectly fine reserve team manager now caretaker manager who knows our players better than anyone could, youth and first team.

I thought money wasn't an issue anymore ! Don't we have a billionaire owner ?

So are you really saying you don't actually want Mcdonald but are unaware of who else might be gettable? If so , fair enough, but thats not really a vote in favour then is it ?

[terrytini]

Some are clearly more of a gamble than others. had we lost to West Ham, would you still like to take the gamble ?

The Spam game and reaction afterwards proved some things to me. It proved that our current squad like, respect and are delighted to work under MacDonald.

That is one of the major gambles out of the way. Who's to say that Jol wouldn't rile up and fall out with half of our players?

He's an abrasive word removed as far as I can see. I think he's the ideal man for the job (Jol that is) but I don't want us to spend half of the Milner cash on replacing someone who walked because they couldn't spend that half of the Milner cash.

Well I'm sorry but if one game proved all that to you I can't think of what to say !!

I think that's the trap a lot of people are falling into. What about when things go wrong, when people are left out, when the novelty wears off ? We've seen it a million times at other Clubs.

It wasn't just the game. It was Petrov (supposedly MON's love child) gushing about how the lads want him to get the job and will go and play for him. Same with Downing, as with comments from people with links to the inner workings of the club.

All of the problems you list are there with ANY managerial appointment. My point is that this is the only appointment that we KNOW will start off on excellent terms.

So because some players said they liked him ? Jesus Fergie would never have got the United job if they'd asked the players after one game how nice was it ???

All my best teachers at school were the ones I started off hating, and all the ones I started off loving ended up poor.

Sorry if they'd said how much they liked him and we'd lost 3-0, would you still be in favour?

No the problems don't exist to the same extent the better the Manager.

[terrytini]

Oh, and just shows how wrong many people were about MON's relationship with Petrov !!

[andycv]

If you've watched the reserves regularly for the last few seasons then you will indeed know all about Kevin Mac, which makes it all the more puzzling as to why you are so anti his appointment.

It isn't puzzling.

Reserve Team football is a million billion miles away from the Premiership.

And football history is littered with failed internal promotions.

If we were a mid table side, fine, take the gamble, only I still wouldn't see why.

Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

Didn't Liverpool dominate English & European football for decades by promoting from within?

Yes, that and having oodles of cash. But they were unique, and were specifically geared up by Shankly to work that way.

Why gamble ?

How were they specifically geared up for it, the way Shankley worked? Why can't it work for us? How is it more of a gamble than appointing someone like Sven?

[Cracker1234]

I thought money wasn't an issue anymore ! Don't we have a billionaire owner ?

So are you really saying you don't actually want Mcdonald but are unaware of who else might be gettable? If so , fair enough, but thats not really a vote in favour then is it ?

He isn't a billionaire owner for nothing, he isn't stupid with his money.

Although he must have trusted in MON awhole lot to pass off the money for some of the deals he did.

I have no personal preference to who should be manager, all I know is this is an exciting time for AV and the person/persons who will make them choices will make the best or I hope they make the best ones for the club.

The manager isn't in my hands so I feel I don't need to waste my tiny brains time thinking to much about it.

I'm fine with Kevin taking over or whoever else, they will be chosen wisely I'm sure.

[granville]

So because some players said they liked him ? Jesus Fergie would never have got the United job if they'd asked the players after one game how nice was it ???

So we can only go by things that would have worked with Fergie's appointment now? OK then we'll get a manager who was successful in Jockland and took one of their clubs to a European final. Oh wait, we've done that dance.

All my best teachers at school were the ones I started off hating, and all the ones I started off loving ended up poor.

Right, I'm not sure of the relevance of this. He's not a teacher, they're not children and this isn't the "start" of their relationship.

He's coached the full squad several times in the past. They didn't meet him for the first time last monday.

Sorry if they'd said how much they liked him and we'd lost 3-0, would you still be in favour?

Irrelevant. I like the way my car looks but saying if it didn't move anywhere and was on fire would I still like my car? That's a moot point.

No the problems don't exist to the same extent the better the Manager.

I don't know what that means.

[terrytini]

So because some players said they liked him ? Jesus Fergie would never have got the United job if they'd asked the players after one game how nice was it ???

So we can only go by things that would have worked with Fergie's appointment now? OK then we'll get a manager who was successful in Jockland and took one of their clubs to a European final. Oh wait, we've done that dance.

All my best teachers at school were the ones I started off hating, and all the ones I started off loving ended up poor.

Right, I'm not sure of the relevance of this. He's not a teacher, they're not children and this isn't the "start" of their relationship.

He's coached the full squad several times in the past. They didn't meet him for the first time last monday.

Sorry if they'd said how much they liked him and we'd lost 3-0, would you still be in favour?

Irrelevant. I like the way my car looks but saying if it didn't move anywhere and was on fire would you still like your car? That's a moot point.

No the problems don't exist to the same extent the better the Manager.

I don't know what that means.

1. No, the first point was what is called an analogy, it is just one example used to illustrate what I saw as a flaw in the other guys logic.

2. See 1. above

3. I don't know what that means - are you using an analogy ?

4. In response to the guys point that the problems exist with any appointment.

OK ?

[Cracker1234]

Oh, and just shows how wrong many people were about MON's relationship with Petrov !!

What's that meant to mean?

Kevin is well liked at AV with many players and staff, just because MON had a good relationship with Petrov it doesn't mean Petrov can't have them with other people at the club also.

I'm sure Petrov was sorry to see MON gone, but that's just it.....He's gone, life goes on.

[terrytini]

If you've watched the reserves regularly for the last few seasons then you will indeed know all about Kevin Mac, which makes it all the more puzzling as to why you are so anti his appointment.

It isn't puzzling.

Reserve Team football is a million billion miles away from the Premiership.

And football history is littered with failed internal promotions.

If we were a mid table side, fine, take the gamble, only I still wouldn't see why.

Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

Didn't Liverpool dominate English & European football for decades by promoting from within?

Yes, that and having oodles of cash. But they were unique, and were specifically geared up by Shankly to work that way.

Why gamble ?

How were they specifically geared up for it, the way Shankley worked? Why can't it work for us? How is it more of a gamble than appointing someone like Sven?

The boot room was specifically used as a means of training and promoting succesors from within.

[blandy]

the manager thread is on the link here

[BOF]

Terrytini, now answered here.

[granville]

1. No, the first point was what is called an analogy, it is just one example used to illustrate what I saw as a flaw in the other guys logic.

2. See 1. above

3. I don't know what that means - are you using an analogy ?

4. In response to the guys point that the problems exist with any appointment.

OK ?

Not really.

I know what an analogy is. My point is that your analogies (which the first one isn't) are very flawed. An analogy only works on certain levels and the ones you used didn't work on the levels that they were required to.

For example, the teacher analogy would have worked better as a workplace analogy. KMac could have been an internal promotion in the company who you liked, respected and wanted to work for.

[terrytini]

Terrytini, now answered here.

I simply asked whether he'd feel the same way had we lost.

Or to put it another way, has one win influenced you that much or was he already your favourite for the job ?

[BOF]

Can we take the discussion into said thread, as requested by Blandy? This thread is about the Milner/Ireland deal.

[mrbojangles]

good read, some good points, however we surely could not turn ireland down, even if a new manager comes in and dosent like him (highly unlikely) we are not going to lose much money if any if we sell him on. Oh and there is a spelling mistake in the last sentance, should read then not the

[Cracker1234]

good read, some good points, however we surely could not turn ireland down, even if a new manager comes in and dosent like him (highly unlikely) we are not going to lose much money if any if we sell him on. Oh and there is a spelling mistake in the last sentance, should read then not the

We would be stupid to pull out of taking Ireland, Middle 20's with 3-4 years left on his contract plus the kid has talent and we got him for 9-10 mil.....that's a bargin

Maybe he didn't play so great last season, but he had many players come into the squad around him.

Now he is being offered a new home with alot of players around his age.......It doesn't matter that Lerner let the deal go ahead, he wouldn't have done that if he didn't think it was in the best interests of the club, it wasn't like he was going behind a managers back because we don't have one.

If it had been Messi that was part of the deal, none of this would have been talked about.

[james_mcfc]

Hi, City fan looking to add my 2 penneth.

In my mind, there is no question that you are getting the best side of this transfer. As someone who's seen Ireland's progress through academy, reserves and finally first team I can only hope he does well with Villa and that is the opinion of the vast majority of our support. As for Milner, he's the kind of player we need at the moment in our team. He may not be as creative as say Ireland, but he's versatile and can go forward quite well. I must say though, the amount we're paying? We've been hung out to dry to the proportions we were when we paid £24m for Lescott.

As for our fanbase; yes, there is a new found optimism within a lot of our ranks. But if you were in our position, would you not be? I mean, we're buying some of the world's top talent (albeit at very inflated prices, but hey. It's not our money that's being spent). Players like Tevez, Silva, Adebayor, Yaya Touré. Players of the calibre that if you'd told me they'd be playing for City 10 years ago, I'd have laughed in your face. Because the vast majority of us are the ones who've been through the shit. I mean, I'm 18. Yes, I've not seen as much as some, but my god I've seen the shite. First match was in Division 2 at home to York City back in 1999. Yes, there are bound to be a few gloryhunters in the ranks, should we win anything. Unfortunately that comes with the territory.

I was sad to see Dunney leave and I'm just as sad to see Ireland go. Dunne's already proven his worth to you, and I'm sure Ireland will also. Good luck for your season, except against us

[mrbojangles]

Hi, City fan looking to add my 2 penneth.

In my mind, there is no question that you are getting the best side of this transfer. As someone who's seen Ireland's progress through academy, reserves and finally first team I can only hope he does well with Villa and that is the opinion of the vast majority of our support. As for Milner, he's the kind of player we need at the moment in our team. He may not be as creative as say Ireland, but he's versatile and can go forward quite well. I must say though, the amount we're paying? We've been hung out to dry to the proportions we were when we paid £24m for Lescott.

As for our fanbase; yes, there is a new found optimism within a lot of our ranks. But if you were in our position, would you not be? I mean, we're buying some of the world's top talent (albeit at very inflated prices, but hey. It's not our money that's being spent). Players like Tevez, Silva, Adebayor, Yaya Touré. Players of the calibre that if you'd told me they'd be playing for City 10 years ago, I'd have laughed in your face. Because the vast majority of us are the ones who've been through the shit. I mean, I'm 18. Yes, I've not seen as much as some, but my god I've seen the shite. First match was in Division 2 at home to York City back in 1999. Yes, there are bound to be a few gloryhunters in the ranks, should we win anything. Unfortunately that comes with the territory.

I was sad to see Dunney leave and I'm just as sad to see Ireland go. Dunne's already proven his worth to you, and I'm sure Ireland will also. Good luck for your season, except against us

Nice post apart from the last sentance :evil:

[BOF]

Cheers James. You've got a class player in Milner.

[granville]

Good post, as soon as you sack Garry Cook, tar and feather him and run him out of town I'll be able to wish you luck as well.

PS - Milner is better than you realise now and will improve faster than you would ever expect.