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Rough Trade - The Milner/ Ireland Deal


blandy

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.. Milner is better than you realise now and will improve faster than you would ever expect.
Exactly. Compared with Steven Gerrard at the same age, Milner is a marginally better player. In the next couple of years he will, given the opportunity, become as good a player as Gerrard was at the top of his game.

I'm not sure he'll get the best opportunity at City, but that's his bed, he's got to lie in it.

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I must say though, the amount we're paying? We've been hung out to dry to the proportions we were when we paid £24m for Lescott.

Woth every penny mate. Every penny. Quality central mid, box to box man, who can score, tackle, track. Just about everything. Great engine.

If Lescott was worth £24m, you should have been paying £40m odd for Milly. On that basis, you've got a steal there ....

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I too am sad to see Milner go. But then he has frustrated the hell out of me in a lot of games. I agree he is getting better and better, but can you really compare Milner to SG at the same age. Milner has played a LOT of football for a guy that young - question is has he reached his prime and when will the injuries kick in?

Ireland was on par with Young two years ago. Would Young have shined being at City under the same circumstances as Ireland - not so sure.

Question mark for me is the Petrov Ireland combination - is it strong enough defensively? Because I think it might be better attacking wise.

Good luck Milner - and thanks for playing the way you did against West Ham - you showed good spirit there. Glad you did not do a Yorke (grrrrrr!!!!).

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I just hope that we have a sell on clause in there.

If he is transferred on, the fee will be a record for a British player. They have bandied about 60m for Gerrard in the past and Torres more recently. That is the kind of transfer fee he will command, and he should have commanded it this time.

Citeh have made an absolute steal.

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Hi, City fan looking to add my 2 penneth.

In my mind, there is no question that you are getting the best side of this transfer. As someone who's seen Ireland's progress through academy, reserves and finally first team I can only hope he does well with Villa and that is the opinion of the vast majority of our support. As for Milner, he's the kind of player we need at the moment in our team. He may not be as creative as say Ireland, but he's versatile and can go forward quite well. I must say though, the amount we're paying? We've been hung out to dry to the proportions we were when we paid £24m for Lescott.

As for our fanbase; yes, there is a new found optimism within a lot of our ranks. But if you were in our position, would you not be? I mean, we're buying some of the world's top talent (albeit at very inflated prices, but hey. It's not our money that's being spent). Players like Tevez, Silva, Adebayor, Yaya Touré. Players of the calibre that if you'd told me they'd be playing for City 10 years ago, I'd have laughed in your face. Because the vast majority of us are the ones who've been through the shit. I mean, I'm 18. Yes, I've not seen as much as some, but my god I've seen the shite. First match was in Division 2 at home to York City back in 1999. Yes, there are bound to be a few gloryhunters in the ranks, should we win anything. Unfortunately that comes with the territory.

I was sad to see Dunney leave and I'm just as sad to see Ireland go. Dunne's already proven his worth to you, and I'm sure Ireland will also. Good luck for your season, except against us ;)

James,

Nice post, and I'm pleased to see that an 18 year old City fan is displaying the same kind of humour and deference that we know of most City fans of old. If there are more like you, then the tradition of solid, down to earth, good humoured support at City will continue.

See my other post. You have an absolute steal. If you paid 24m for Lescott you should have paid 84m for Milner.

If you can get a decent coach in (you may have already, I'm just not convinced) and sign a few class players (instead of money grabbing troublemakers who have never heard of your club), then James Milner will lead you to ultimate glory.

Don't expect silverware before your 21st birthday though :winkold:

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I think I've not explained my point very well. There's no difference between one season ticket holder and the next. Gav asked me would I rather....., and my answer was meant to say that what I think (as a Holte End season ticket holding fan) was no more or less relevant to doing a deal than the view of any other fan. In fact, it is the manager and only the manager who should decide who he wants, but we don't have one, we've got a caretaker, so WHO decided and why.
Cracking point, I made a similar one yesterday and was told I had no credibility, go figure

In fairness Rich, when it comes to RL or any discussions relating to - you don't.

You have a longstanding bee in your bonnet about him, for whatever reason. Whether it was your thread that came in for widescale ridicule last year that was the tipping point for you, I'm not sure.

But advocating that he sell up last summer if he wasn't prepared to match Citeh's spending and laying the blame at his door for MON's cowardly walkout this summer indicates that any critique you offer is hardly balanced.

In contrast, as far as Blandy is concerned -and as much as I disagree with a fair amount of that article- I at least get the feeling he is operating from a neutral standpoint, and not trying to fortify an entrentched position further.

The example I gave yesterday that you had such an issue with was a hypothetical situation anyway. I have no information that leads me to believe RL will take more of a hands on approach in transfers (outside of the current Milner deal -when circumstances forced his hand somewhat).

The point I (perhaps clumsily) was trying to make was that you don't always need a longstanding playing/ coaching background in the game to spot areas in need of improvement. There are probably posters on this site who might have only followed us for a year or two that could tell you we need a forward. RL has had an interest in football for 15+ years (possibly more) and now has money riding on that interest.

Unlike Ellis, he would take advice from a number of sources and if he made a decision that a forward of sufficient quality was available and within our grasp financially -and if for the sake of argument this forward was in the Huntelaar/ Suarez bracket- I for one would not say "Oh no, don't like that. Only managers should be signing players."

I think we're quite safe on the 'just like Ellis front,' too. As I don't envisage RL wanting/ needing the acclaim of the press; or instructing his new choice of manager to tell supporters in his programme notes that 'whenever I need help and advice the Chairman often acts as a sounding board,' or similar. To date he has never struck me as that delusional/ insecure.

Generally, when a new appointment crops up clubs will quite often go for the opposite of what they've just had, so it's quite possible that we could move away from the traditional British model, with one guy having all the say.

Whether that's a DOF taking care of all the signings, or a owner/chief exec and coach working together I'm not sure.

You often hear that such an approach doesn't work in England. It's not widespread, I accept that. But Chelsea have operated under a variation of the above since 2003, and Tottenham were close to the top 4 on numerous occasions under Comoli. They also bagged the League Cup. So define 'doesn't work.' Both of those clubs have won more trophies than us in the last 14 years.

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.. Milner is better than you realise now and will improve faster than you would ever expect.
Exactly. Compared with Steven Gerrard at the same age, Milner is a marginally better player.

By the age of 24 Steve Gerrard was an England regular and a focal point of a Liverpool side who had won the LC/ UEFA and FA Cup and were regular CL qualifiers (in fact I think he'd done a fair bit of that by the age of 21/22 -and played a key role in the demolition of ze Germans in 2001).

In contrast -by the same age- Milner has had one decent season in CM and has just started to feature more regulary in the England set-up.

Milner might -in time- go on to have a succesful career and become one of the most important players in the country. But comparisons with Gerrard -even now- are fanciful.

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.. Milner is better than you realise now and will improve faster than you would ever expect.
Exactly. Compared with Steven Gerrard at the same age, Milner is a marginally better player.

By the age of 24 Steve Gerrard was an England regular and a focal point of a Liverpool side who had won the LC/ UEFA and FA Cup and were regular CL qualifiers (in fact I think he'd done a fair bit of that by the age of 21/22 -and played a key role in the demolition of ze Germans in 2001).

In contrast -by the same age- Milner has had one decent season in CM and has just started to feature more regulary in the England set-up.

Milner might -in time- go on to have a succesful career and become one of the most important players in the country. But comparisons with Gerrard -even now- are fanciful.

We all see things differently, so fair enough. I wasn't, though, talking about how well the Clubs they were playing for had done, but my perception of the two players as individuals, and I completely stand by what I said. Milner will go on to have an outstanding carrer if he stays injury free and is at the right club.
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Fair enough.

But it's not as if Gerrard was a passenger in those succesful sides.

He was the driving force, the go-to guy.

At the same stage of his career (early 20's) JM was in and out of a pretty mediocre Newcastle side, playing RM, LM, off the forwards. Or sometimes not at all. One OK season for us at RM in 2008/09, and one decent year last year when he played most (but not all) of the campaign in the centre.

You can understand why some might struggle with the comparison.

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That was the biggest piece of tripe I've read on villa talk... and I would know.. I've written most of it. *snarf*snarf*

Seriously, get a grip. Everton got bullied out of Rooney, it happens. We lost Yorke in the same way.

Why was this put as a main article? It's a joke.

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.... so why would a rookie manager like Kevin Macdonald be put under so much un necessary pressure to be involved in making a claim, when he is probably quite happy to be uninvolved.

This is a money exercise, not a football exercise, unfortunately, thats is the sums involved.

indeed it is a money exercise, and the transfer in of ireland looks like a means to an end determined by money. Why get the manager involved? Because he's the best qualified on the footballs aspects of it, and villa is there to compete at football, not money.

We have by most judgements got the better of the deal, but I'm certain that city have got the better player out of it. They can afford it, they don't care about the cost, it seems.

I don't like that balance, I don't like that villa is possibly worrying about the detail of the deal and city about the detail of the best player. Straight cash, theres no argument, the money is there, or as much of it as we can afford to be used for another player, but getting in a player when we don't need to, and forgoing the cash is a risk and i don't know or see why it has been done that way, especially given the reservations we've expressed about Ireland. He might do really well, I hope he does, sincerely. He is talented, but there's a lot of questions over his future career prospects.

Man Utd once signed Cantona for 1 mill.....I mill.

would that transaction suggest Leeds hadn't got a clue how to value a player.

Don't be surprised if Stephen Ireland turns out better than Milner.I'm not saying he will... but quite easily he could. Its all about opinions.

its also intriguing, that one of Martin's crony sports journalist's said he thought he was off in March, by his body language and demeanor. Does that mean he had no interest in the Milner deal one way or another?

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A few points:

The Ireland deal going ahead without us having a manager is not a problem at all. Do anyone really think MON's was the only opinion they courted for the transfer? There would have been discussions with several of our coaching and scouting staff, especially as the situation with MON was fragile. At the end of the day, we didn't want to sell Milner, but we had no choice...so if we are going to let him go, we need a replacement. Man City were offering a good replacement as part of the deal which takes away all of the uncertainty that comes with the transfer window, agents and getting outbid. It was good business all round. If Ireland doesn't turn out to be a good buy, he is young and we will get a decent return on him, plus we made a tidy profit on Milner.

I'm a little worried about Ireland's attitude, but let's just see how he behaves. As for playing for Ireland, that's his own personal choice and I think it probably is down to a combination of how the whole grandmother's death/girlfriend miscarriage thing was handled and something iffy in the Irish setup. I remember Roy Keane saying how unprofessional the whole setup was, so maybe that's why Ireland is happy to walk away from it?

I can't see how Milner can be compared to Gerrard. I seriously doubt he will ever have the same impact as Gerrard, even if he improves a lot - Gerrard's physical attributes put him ahead of Milner for a central midfielder - he's taller and stronger, and it does make a difference. Gerrard is more aggressive too.

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i personally think we're laughing with this deal, what a great bit of business!

as a big republic of ireland fan i was disappointed with his choice to quit playing for his country.

but as mentioned here by one or two, that is beside the point.

he is much more technically gifted than milner, and has never really shown bad attitude at his club, he's had dips in form like any normal professional!

if kevin macdonald gets the job, he worked with stephen ireland when he was republic of ireland assistant manager and so knows him well already and should have no problem working with him.

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