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Rough Trade - The Milner/ Ireland Deal


blandy

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I am staggered by the amount of fans who seem okay with the fact that our owner has just bought a player.

I am staggered you seem to think that is a fact. From what I can tell MON picked out Ireland in the swap, they got into the advanced stages of negotiations and then MON left. In this tricky situation Randy consulted with MacDonald and decided to go through with the deal.

Hardly Abramovichesque Schevchenko buying is it?

Unless Mcdonald is our Manager, the owner has bought Ireland

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I am staggered by the amount of fans who seem okay with the fact that our owner has just bought a player.

I am staggered you seem to think that is a fact. From what I can tell MON picked out Ireland in the swap, they got into the advanced stages of negotiations and then MON left. In this tricky situation Randy consulted with MacDonald and decided to go through with the deal.

Hardly Abramovichesque Schevchenko buying is it?

Unless Mcdonald is our Manager, the owner has bought Ireland

He hasn't bought him, the deal was already pretty much complete. He didn't pick Ireland out on his own and just hand some money over, it was nothing like that at all.

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I am staggered by the amount of fans who seem okay with the fact that our owner has just bought a player.

I am staggered you seem to think that is a fact. From what I can tell MON picked out Ireland in the swap, they got into the advanced stages of negotiations and then MON left. In this tricky situation Randy consulted with MacDonald and decided to go through with the deal.

Hardly Abramovichesque Schevchenko buying is it?

Unless Mcdonald is our Manager, the owner has bought Ireland

What problem do you have with SI? Isn't he good enough for you? Do you think we should have offered 50 mil to buy Gerard?

He is good value for money in my opinion, not forgetting he was Citehs player of the year just 2 seasons ago.

If Lerner has bought him then I would like to say thanks to Lerner, I think he will add something to the team we already have in place, something that we might miss with Milner going.

Milner was going anyway, like it or not....It just would have happened alot sooner.

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I am staggered by the amount of fans who seem okay with the fact that our owner has just bought a player.

Even more so when by his own words players coming in will be in shorter supply now, with the emphasis on 'living within our income' .

Nothing should have happeneed until we had appointed a Manager, who should then have had the say on what he wanted.

(But I am equally staggered by the number who suddenly seem to want our Reserve team Coach as Manager, the number who are thanking Milner 'for all he's done', the number who seem okay with our Boards rubbishing of MON, and the lack of protests about the subtle shift in stance away from Owner Investment)

Signing SI is the clearest indication that KM will be our new manager imo. He will probably work with a DoF, and he has almost certainly encouraged Randy to go ahead with the SI component of the Milner transfer.

As for being staggered by knowledgeable fans wanting a much better coach than Mon, a much better tactician than Mon, and a much better man manager than Mon who also happens to be our reserve team coach and manager, I suggest that you suspend judgement until you get to know the man.

Finally Randy isn't moving away from owner investment, he is obviously targeting the wasted wages. These wages will be recovered by either moving certain players on, or by several of the frozen out players actually having the opportunity to earn those wages by contributing to our future success on the pitch.

It takes all sorts of fans to support a club, and I guess you and I Terry are opposite ends of the spectrum. I respect your views and can see where your concerns are coming from, but I hope that future results will show that Randy has got things right after a concerning few months.

Much as you want to make this to do with MON, it is not. As it happens I also consider myself a 'knowledgeable fan' as you rather arrogantly put it. I have watched the Reserves regularly. Whilst I disagree with your views of MON (and take issue that you appear to have suddenly become a spokesperson for people wanting Mcdonald and assumed you know their reasons) it is nothing to do with it.

Being a good resrve Team Manger, which he is , is a world apart from being a good 1st Team Manager. He may, of course, be great at it - but why would we gamble ? We need to push on with the Best we can get.

And I'm sorry, but in their own words the Club have now moved to live within income - which, whilst it may be sound finance, is definitely different to the earlier years where we thought significant investment would (and did) come from the Owner.

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I am staggered by the amount of fans who seem okay with the fact that our owner has just bought a player.

I am staggered you seem to think that is a fact. From what I can tell MON picked out Ireland in the swap, they got into the advanced stages of negotiations and then MON left. In this tricky situation Randy consulted with MacDonald and decided to go through with the deal.

Hardly Abramovichesque Schevchenko buying is it?

Unless Mcdonald is our Manager, the owner has bought Ireland

What problem do you have with SI? Isn't he good enough for you? Do you think we should have offered 50 mil to buy Gerard?

He is good value for money in my opinion, not forgetting he was Citehs player of the year just 2 seasons ago.

If Lerner has bought him then I would like to say thanks to Lerner, I think he will add something to the team we already have in place, something that we might miss with Milner going.

Milner was going anyway, like it or not....It just would have happened alot sooner.

You miss my point. I personally have no problem with Ireland - I think he will be terrific for us.

I happen to beleive the Manager should buy the players. Always have done, always will. Abramovic did it at Chelsea and Muriniho left, Ashley at Newcastle and Keegan left.

I love what Randy has done so far as much as the next man, but I don't think that means throwing my beleifs out the window - I don't want an owner deciding who plays in my Team.

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Being a good resrve Team Manger, which he is , is a world apart from being a good 1st Team Manager. He may, of course, be great at it - but why would we gamble ? We need to push on with the Best we can get.

Whoever we get it is a gamble, who's to say Jol will do fantastic here? Although that's many fans first choice.

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I am staggered by the amount of fans who seem okay with the fact that our owner has just bought a player.

(But I am equally staggered by the number who suddenly seem to want our Reserve team Coach as Manager, the number who are thanking Milner 'for all he's done', the number who seem okay with our Boards rubbishing of MON, and the lack of protests about the subtle shift in stance away from Owner Investment)

I don't think Randy Lerner is about a sign a player that is worth 10 million without asking questions if he will be good for the club.

Kevin has done fine with the reserve team and he knows them young players better than anyone at the club, that's the sort of players we need to move up to the first team squad and I think he would be the best person to do that, not spending 20 mil here and 20 mil there for a player with a bigger name.

We have a good squad without them younger players moving up, but atleast this way they will have a chance of doing so.

As for MON, he walked out on the club 5 days before kick off, we will maybe never know the real reason why, but just walking out of the club 5 days before kick off isn't the best thing he could have done.

Who said Lerner isn't going to invest? Maybe he didn't want to give MON anymore money to buy players like Sidwell, Heskey and all them others who aren't that great.

He did - he has said, via the General, that the Club must exist within the financial limits of its Revenue. I could run it on that basis. As for whether he did or didn't like the players, if you are right, I find that even worse - not only has he bought Ireland you are suggesting he only supporrts his Manger if he likes whop he buys ? How much more interference would you want ? (As it happens, I don't think it has anything to do with people you happen to not like being disliked by Randy)

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You miss my point. I personally have no problem with Ireland - I think he will be terrific for us.

I happen to beleive the Manager should buy the players. Always have done, always will. Abramovic did it at Chelsea and Muriniho left, Ashley at Newcastle and Keegan left.

I love what Randy has done so far as much as the next man, but I don't think that means throwing my beleifs out the window - I don't want an owner deciding who plays in my Team.

I think you're missing one major factor, those teams had managers in place when that happened, we have no manager, he hasn't gone behind any managers back and he never when MON was at AV.

If you know more than us please do tell, but from what I've heard MON was the one who wanted Ireland as part of the Milner deal and Lerner just went ahead with that after MON left us in the shit 5 days before the start of the season.

Well I say in the shit, he did infact leave us with a good team that a new manager to build on, but he left nonetheless 5 days before the start of the season.

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Being a good resrve Team Manger, which he is , is a world apart from being a good 1st Team Manager. He may, of course, be great at it - but why would we gamble ? We need to push on with the Best we can get.

Whoever we get it is a gamble, who's to say Jol will do fantastic here? Although that's many fans first choice.

Some are clearly more of a gamble than others. had we lost to West Ham, would you still like to take the gamble ? I didn't see many people posting for Mcdonald to take over fromMON prior to all this.

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You miss my point. I personally have no problem with Ireland - I think he will be terrific for us.

I happen to beleive the Manager should buy the players. Always have done, always will. Abramovic did it at Chelsea and Muriniho left, Ashley at Newcastle and Keegan left.

I love what Randy has done so far as much as the next man, but I don't think that means throwing my beleifs out the window - I don't want an owner deciding who plays in my Team.

I think you're missing one major factor, those teams had managers in place when that happened, we have no manager, he hasn't gone behind any managers back and he never when MON was at AV.

If you know more than us please do tell, but from what I've heard MON was the one who wanted Ireland as part of the Milner deal and Lerner just went ahead with that after MON left us in the shit 5 days before the start of the season.

Well I say in the shit, he did infact leave us with a good team that a new manager to build on, but he left nonetheless 5 days before the start of the season.

Lets agree to have different views.

I think we should have appointed a Manager and let the new Manager decide. I think anything else is wrong, and much as I love Randy I think it is wrong, wrong, wrong. In the end this player is now Randys choice (unless Mcdonald is in fact our new Manager)

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If you've watched the reserves regularly for the last few seasons then you will indeed know all about Kevin Mac, which makes it all the more puzzling as to why you are so anti his appointment.

EDIT: By the way, "knowledgeable fans" refers to the fact that if you spend a large amount of time involving yourself in something then you collect a fund of knowledge about it. It's not arrogance it's fact.

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He did - he has said, via the General, that the Club must exist within the financial limits of its Revenue. I could run it on that basis. As for whether he did or didn't like the players, if you are right, I find that even worse - not only has he bought Ireland you are suggesting he only supporrts his Manger if he likes whop he buys ? How much more interference would you want ? (As it happens, I don't think it has anything to do with people you happen to not like being disliked by Randy)

Randy Lerner wants to offload those players who are doing NOTHING but warming the bench up each game, they were doing it under MON even though MON asked for the money to sign them and put them on stupid wages for the type of player they are.

We don't know what went on behind closed doors, who's to say MON didn't say to Lerner, we really need this and that player they will be great for the club....Then they didn't get a chance of playing.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but seeing as Lerner agreed to buy them, he must have been told something.....Yet he watches them players picking up 50k 40k per week for sitting on the bench week in week out.

You would be an idiot not to question some of MON's buys, that would also leave you to question future buys and can he be trusted to make them.

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Some are clearly more of a gamble than others. had we lost to West Ham, would you still like to take the gamble ?

The Spam game and reaction afterwards proved some things to me. It proved that our current squad like, respect and are delighted to work under MacDonald.

That is one of the major gambles out of the way. Who's to say that Jol wouldn't rile up and fall out with half of our players?

He's an abrasive word removed as far as I can see. I think he's the ideal man for the job (Jol that is) but I don't want us to spend half of the Milner cash on replacing someone who walked because they couldn't spend that half of the Milner cash.

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If you've watched the reserves regularly for the last few seasons then you will indeed know all about Kevin Mac, which makes it all the more puzzling as to why you are so anti his appointment.

It isn't puzzling.

Reserve Team football is a million billion miles away from the Premiership.

And football history is littered with failed internal promotions.

If we were a mid table side, fine, take the gamble, only I still wouldn't see why.

Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

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If you've watched the reserves regularly for the last few seasons then you will indeed know all about Kevin Mac, which makes it all the more puzzling as to why you are so anti his appointment.

It isn't puzzling.

Reserve Team football is a million billion miles away from the Premiership.

And football history is littered with failed internal promotions.

If we were a mid table side, fine, take the gamble, only I still wouldn't see why.

Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

Didn't Liverpool dominate English & European football for decades by promoting from within?

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He did - he has said, via the General, that the Club must exist within the financial limits of its Revenue. I could run it on that basis. As for whether he did or didn't like the players, if you are right, I find that even worse - not only has he bought Ireland you are suggesting he only supporrts his Manger if he likes whop he buys ? How much more interference would you want ? (As it happens, I don't think it has anything to do with people you happen to not like being disliked by Randy)

Randy Lerner wants to offload those players who are doing NOTHING but warming the bench up each game, they were doing it under MON even though MON asked for the money to sign them and put them on stupid wages for the type of player they are.

We don't know what went on behind closed doors, who's to say MON didn't say to Lerner, we really need this and that player they will be great for the club....Then they didn't get a chance of playing.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but seeing as Lerner agreed to buy them, he must have been told something.....Yet he watches them players picking up 50k 40k per week for sitting on the bench week in week out.

You would be an idiot not to question some of MON's buys, that would also leave you to question future buys and can he be trusted to make them.

I'm not referring to offloading players, althouhg I still think that should be up to the Mnager, not the owner. I'm referring to future investment.

As regards MON buys, all Managers buy duff players - it still doesn't justify the owner interfering in who is in and who gets sold.

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Some are clearly more of a gamble than others. had we lost to West Ham, would you still like to take the gamble ?

The Spam game and reaction afterwards proved some things to me. It proved that our current squad like, respect and are delighted to work under MacDonald.

That is one of the major gambles out of the way. Who's to say that Jol wouldn't rile up and fall out with half of our players?

He's an abrasive word removed as far as I can see. I think he's the ideal man for the job (Jol that is) but I don't want us to spend half of the Milner cash on replacing someone who walked because they couldn't spend that half of the Milner cash.

Well I'm sorry but if one game proved all that to you I can't think of what to say !!

I think that's the trap a lot of people are falling into. What about when things go wrong, when people are left out, when the novelty wears off ? We've seen it a million times at other Clubs.

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Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

The best managers are in jobs, Jol is currently in a job, he is the best we can hope for because he is or was looking to move to another club.

The other managers who we could get aren't currently working for any club.....To me that don't sound like they're the best.

Why throw money at possible managers who aren't the best when we have a perfectly fine reserve team manager now caretaker manager who knows our players better than anyone could, youth and first team.

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If you've watched the reserves regularly for the last few seasons then you will indeed know all about Kevin Mac, which makes it all the more puzzling as to why you are so anti his appointment.

It isn't puzzling.

Reserve Team football is a million billion miles away from the Premiership.

And football history is littered with failed internal promotions.

If we were a mid table side, fine, take the gamble, only I still wouldn't see why.

Why not get the BBest we can, instead of someone about whom we know nothing as far as Premiership is involved ?

Didn't Liverpool dominate English & European football for decades by promoting from within?

Yes, that and having oodles of cash. But they were unique, and were specifically geared up by Shankly to work that way.

Why gamble ?

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Some are clearly more of a gamble than others. had we lost to West Ham, would you still like to take the gamble ?

The Spam game and reaction afterwards proved some things to me. It proved that our current squad like, respect and are delighted to work under MacDonald.

That is one of the major gambles out of the way. Who's to say that Jol wouldn't rile up and fall out with half of our players?

He's an abrasive word removed as far as I can see. I think he's the ideal man for the job (Jol that is) but I don't want us to spend half of the Milner cash on replacing someone who walked because they couldn't spend that half of the Milner cash.

Well I'm sorry but if one game proved all that to you I can't think of what to say !!

I think that's the trap a lot of people are falling into. What about when things go wrong, when people are left out, when the novelty wears off ? We've seen it a million times at other Clubs.

It wasn't just the game. It was Petrov (supposedly MON's love child) gushing about how the lads want him to get the job and will go and play for him. Same with Downing, as with comments from people with links to the inner workings of the club.

All of the problems you list are there with ANY managerial appointment. My point is that this is the only appointment that we KNOW will start off on excellent terms.

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