Jump to content

Rough Trade - The Milner/ Ireland Deal


blandy

Recommended Posts

Yes, villa lion, that's true. Does it point to decisions being made gnerally from a kind of business investment perspective, then. - a kind of finishing academy model where you have a head coach and he's given players to work with and develop and sell on?

Or is it just an enthusiastic owner wanting to make a point that "look, there's still good things going on, don't worry, I know he's a good player and we got hi. In to make sure the manager, whoever he will be has a strong squad".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are making one monumental mistake....you are assuming the manager is the answer to all the ills.

Fabio Capello is an eaxample imo of an over hyped misfit.

Matrtin O'Neill is never the person so many think he is /was.

you make so many assumptions its untrue.

How do you know that stephen Ireland is not to respond to a thoroughly decent club.... and go on to be a legend.

I remember many villa fans saying " paul **** merson"... why are we signing him.

James Milner has been offered a kings ransom and while many of us with a long standing bit of experience can say " not all that glitters is gold" will understand his stance... he has been offered a life changing experience.How can you blame him.

I think we can go on and be awesome with the right attitude from within the club.The players are millionairres, but they are human too.....treat them occordingly and you might be surprised with the response.....treat them like shit and you will get shit.

I don't think you quite understand how many players are pleased with O'Neills departure.

draconian measures are not the answer to everything.....ask the great leeds team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I'm basically agreeing with most here, I think that this particular deal was probably too far down the road for it to be stopped.

Now, say if Randy had gone to Italy and brought a couple of players back with him, then that's where I'd start asking questions :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Blandy, that was a very true, respectful and well argued piece and now you have my mind going! The points that got me were the whole wage situation which is spot on. What's going on in that department? I heard we needed to clear out the deadwood and now we've bought SI in on probably more than Milner!

Second point was the whole attitude situation. IMO I don't think he would have given a monkey's if he was told he was going to rot in the reserves all summer, just the fact we (I say we, who the hell is we?) wanted to have him attached to the Milner deal. Nonetheless he's our first signing and I've seen what he can do so for that I'm happy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the whole thing is risky and I'm a little sceptical.

For a start, Milner was such a dynamic box-to-box midfielder, good tackling, excellent stamina, etc etc. Ireland and Petrov (potentially) in the centre of midfield worries me a little.

All I hope is that Stephen Ireland is the kind of character who will want to show up his former employers by performing well/trying hard for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the whole thing is risky and I'm a little sceptical.

For a start, Milner was such a dynamic box-to-box midfielder, good tackling, excellent stamina, etc etc. Ireland and Petrov (potentially) in the centre of midfield worries me a little.

All I hope is that Stephen Ireland is the kind of character who will want to show up his former employers by performing well/trying hard for us.

Milner wanted to join us. Ireland didn't.

Maybe it makes no difference. But we'll see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are making one monumental mistake....you are assuming the manager is the answer to all the ills.

Fabio Capello is an eaxample imo of an over hyped misfit.

Matrtin O'Neill is never the person so many think he is /was.

you make so many assumptions its untrue.

How do you know that stephen Ireland is not to respond to a thoroughly decent club.... and go on to be a legend.

I remember many villa fans saying " paul **** merson"... why are we signing him.

James Milner has been offered a kings ransom and while many of us with a long standing bit of experience can say " not all that glitters is gold" will understand his stance... he has been offered a life changing experience.How can you blame him.

I think we can go on and be awesome with the right attitude from within the club.The players are millionairres, but they are human too.....treat them accordingly and you might be surprised with the response.....treat them like shit and you will get shit.

how many of those views actually relate to what i've said. None of them as far as I can see. For example I haven't blamed jm for moving. And Neither you nor I have a clue as to whether Ireland will turn out to be a villa legend, but I haven't remotely claimed he wouldn't, only that there are some concerns about his state of mind, at times. I don't say anything or make any assumptions about the manager, any manager, being the answer to any ills, only that I kind of like the manager to decide who he wants to buy and who he wants to sell, rather than people responsible for catering, or sponsorship, or who knows what.

I've said there are things that concern me about the two deals. Maybe I'm completely wrong to be concerned, but at least I've read the words I wrote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the whole thing is risky and I'm a little sceptical.

For a start, Milner was such a dynamic box-to-box midfielder, good tackling, excellent stamina, etc etc. Ireland and Petrov (potentially) in the centre of midfield worries me a little.

All I hope is that Stephen Ireland is the kind of character who will want to show up his former employers by performing well/trying hard for us.

Milner wanted to join us. Ireland didn't.

Maybe it makes no difference. But we'll see.

Not sure Dunne was over the moon about coming here originally, but his performance until the very end of last season was sensational

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting point - on how a club keen to reduce debt, supposedly shun a cash only deal - to get Ireland. On thing that would make sense of a lot of things, was that if MON didn't want Ireland, but Randy and Paul Faulkner did - that would explain why MON walked - and why we didn't do cash only.............and maybe its why Kevin Mac is a bit cool on being permanent villa manager.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the whole thing is risky and I'm a little sceptical.

For a start, Milner was such a dynamic box-to-box midfielder, good tackling, excellent stamina, etc etc. Ireland and Petrov (potentially) in the centre of midfield worries me a little.

All I hope is that Stephen Ireland is the kind of character who will want to show up his former employers by performing well/trying hard for us.

Milner wanted to join us. Ireland didn't.

Maybe it makes no difference. But we'll see.

while the whole world wants to join Man city, why would Stephen Ireland want to join us.....on the surface.

deep down we are a great club....as are Everton imo

I as many others could write reams and reams and reams of lines on why money does'nt buy happiness and it seriously doesn't but on the surface it does.

because synthetic people believe that... there are managers by the bucket load have proved that theory wrong.... but its hard work and nobody likes hard work these days.

Don Revie, Harry Catterick, Howard Kendall,Bertie Mee, Ron Saunders,Brian Clough,Arsene Venger.

The Man City thing is a joke to me.... its just that they have won the lottery.... Chelsea and Man U were doing it way before them.... i say good luck to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the whole thing is risky and I'm a little sceptical.

For a start, Milner was such a dynamic box-to-box midfielder, good tackling, excellent stamina, etc etc. Ireland and Petrov (potentially) in the centre of midfield worries me a little.

All I hope is that Stephen Ireland is the kind of character who will want to show up his former employers by performing well/trying hard for us.

Milner wanted to join us. Ireland didn't.

Maybe it makes no difference. But we'll see.

while the whole world wants to join Man city, why would Stephen Ireland want to join us.....on the surface.

deep down we are a great club....as are Everton imo

I as many others could write reams and reams and reams of lines on why money does'nt buy happiness and it seriously doesn't but on the surface it does.

because synthetic people believe that... there are managers by the bucket load have proved that theory wrong.... but its hard work and nobody likes hard work these days.

Don Revie, Harry Catterick, Howard Kendall,Bertie Mee, Ron Saunders,Brian Clough,Arsene Venger.

The Man City thing is a joke to me.... its just that they have won the lottery.... Chelsea and Man U were doing it way before them.... i say good luck to them.

Of course I am biased - but I watched chelsea on the TV saturday night - they won 6-0 - but it just didn't seem 'real' - Our victory over West Ham was all the more glorious - because we probably won't play like that every week !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are making one monumental mistake....you are assuming the manager is the answer to all the ills.

Fabio Capello is an eaxample imo of an over hyped misfit.

Matrtin O'Neill is never the person so many think he is /was.

you make so many assumptions its untrue.

How do you know that stephen Ireland is not to respond to a thoroughly decent club.... and go on to be a legend.

I remember many villa fans saying " paul **** merson"... why are we signing him.

James Milner has been offered a kings ransom and while many of us with a long standing bit of experience can say " not all that glitters is gold" will understand his stance... he has been offered a life changing experience.How can you blame him.

I think we can go on and be awesome with the right attitude from within the club.The players are millionairres, but they are human too.....treat them accordingly and you might be surprised with the response.....treat them like shit and you will get shit.

how many of those views actually relate to what i've said. None of them as far as I can see. For example I haven't blamed jm for moving. And Neither you nor I have a clue as to whether Ireland will turn out to be a villa legend, but I haven't remotely claimed he wouldn't, only that there are some concerns about his state of mind, at times. I don't say anything or make any assumptions about the manager, any manager, being the answer to any ills, only that I kind of like the manager to decide who he wants to buy and who he wants to sell, rather than people responsible for catering, or sponsorship, or who knows what.

I've said there are things that concern me about the two deals. Maybe I'm completely wrong to be concerned, but at least I've read the words I wrote.

No, I understand what you say, but the Manager( Martin O'Neill) has walked out in mid stream.... The chairman is in the middle of a deal involving a player (stephen Ireland) that some of our supporters would be happy in a straight swap, never mind 18 million compensation..... so why would a rookie manager like Kevin Macdonald be put under so much un necessary pressure to be involved in making a claim, when he is probably quite happy to be uninvolved.

This is a money exercise, not a football exercise, unfortunately, thats is the sums involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

while the whole world wants to join Man city, why would Stephen Ireland want to join us.....on the surface.

deep down we are a great club....as are Everton imo

I as many others could write reams and reams and reams of lines on why money does'nt buy happiness and it seriously doesn't but on the surface it does.

because synthetic people believe that... there are managers by the bucket load have proved that theory wrong.... but its hard work and nobody likes hard work these days.

Don Revie, Harry Catterick, Howard Kendall,Bertie Mee, Ron Saunders,Brian Clough,Arsene Venger.

The Man City thing is a joke to me.... its just that they have won the lottery.... Chelsea and Man U were doing it way before them.... i say good luck to them.

that's a very good point, and i agree TRO. The point about why would Ireland want to join us is exactly right, and something I was trying to het at. villa, in my eyes is better than City, but then Im a lifelong villain. Ireland came through their youth scheme, and will no doubt have been happy until recently at city, and its the change in the way they are now set up that has made him miffed. The whole trading of people at a whim, as city are doing, based only on a money fuelled desire to be an international name is out of kilter, where's the soul in it. Where's the humanity?

That's the risk we are playing with. If a football manager identifies that the person and player is the right thing for villa, and the player thinks it's the right thing for him, then great. If a money man decides, then that's another matter, and thats my concern about the signing without a manager with a long term vision for villa being in place and making that judgement.

Once football stops being about people, and becomes about money, thats where it loses its way as an element in the social fabric, as something worth all the time and thought and effort and travel and devotion we all put into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...We don't know why Martin O'Neill left Villa, but looking at that lot above, I have some sympathy if he was becoming fed up of many aspects of the game and fancied a sanity break. The again if he hadn't dropped his bundle, maybe some of what looks like a bit of a muddle might be rather less muddled.

Blandy, you are an articulate writer, are you serious when you say that you don't know why O'Neill left.

get off the fence, man.

Are you expecting O'Neill to come out and say, none of it is my fault....blah ,blah, blah,....as was said on sunday supplement, he ( O'Neill) had it in his eyes he was going in March....so all that time he was living the lie and no intetion of having AVFC in his thoughts and left 5 days before the season start.

....wonderful

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.... so why would a rookie manager like Kevin Macdonald be put under so much un necessary pressure to be involved in making a claim, when he is probably quite happy to be uninvolved.

This is a money exercise, not a football exercise, unfortunately, thats is the sums involved.

indeed it is a money exercise, and the transfer in of ireland looks like a means to an end determined by money. Why get the manager involved? Because he's the best qualified on the footballs aspects of it, and villa is there to compete at football, not money.

We have by most judgements got the better of the deal, but I'm certain that city have got the better player out of it. They can afford it, they don't care about the cost, it seems.

I don't like that balance, I don't like that villa is possibly worrying about the detail of the deal and city about the detail of the best player. Straight cash, theres no argument, the money is there, or as much of it as we can afford to be used for another player, but getting in a player when we don't need to, and forgoing the cash is a risk and i don't know or see why it has been done that way, especially given the reservations we've expressed about Ireland. He might do really well, I hope he does, sincerely. He is talented, but there's a lot of questions over his future career prospects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Milner is a Leeds fan and played for Leeds - was offered more money to play for Newcastle - he joined Newcastle, was offered more money to join Villa - he joined Villa, was offered more money to join Man City - he joined Man City. I cannot see how he has a reputation of being loyal - he isn't. He just works hard on the pitch.

Stephen Ireland joined Man City 5 years ago worked hard and wanted to play for Man City, and probably still does, but has been pushed out by big money signings. I know the situation(s) were different, but I think he has a better track record in terms of loyalty than Milner.

In terms of who gets what, I think Milner is pretty much what Man City are missing in terms of a totally committed, hard working midfielder to keep them going during bad patches allowing the real flair players to excel. For Villa we get an actual attacking midfielder who can break down stubborn defences, assuming we play a five man midfield for protection.

Overall I think the loyal label applied to Milner is fatuous and could more accurately be applied to Ireland, however Milner is in form now and I can only hope that Ireland will be up for it and really show the form he is capable of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In reply to the massive long quote, no I don't know why mon left. I have a pretty good idea of some of the reasons I have a good idea of some of the things going on, but no I don't know why he left. Like James Milner, he'll keep his pronouncements to himself,too, I'd reckon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Milner has made the right decision financially, certainly in the short term, but the wrong decision for his long term playing career. The reasons being that Man City will not find stability for at least a couple of seasons. As such, they are likely to go through numerous managers during Milners time there and so he could easily find himself outside the prefered 11, or even 18. If they do happen to progress and find themselves in the Champions League they will go and buy better players than Milner. He's good but if they go and pay £200m for Messi and Ronaldo, just as an example, where does James think he'll fit in? So, potentially he'll get a fair few games this season but sadly, if City don't top 4 there will be instability and if they do Milner won't necessarily fit into their plans. I can just see him back at Newcastle in 3 years time and what a sad story that would be.

Ireland does seem to be a strange character but I actually know little about him to be honest. We see pictures of his cars on the net and read stories in the papers but if that's how men are judged then we have a problem! As for the contract and the money he was owed; I can see why people would think he was more concerned over the money than playing football and perhaps this is true, however, perhaps he gambled knowing how desperately they wanted Milner at Eastlands. Who's to say that had they called his bluff he would have come to us anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...
Â