Rough Trade - The Milner/ Ireland Deal

[blandy]

possibly so rjshare, but it would be unconventional to appoint someone as manager and keep it a secret.

[GavChahal]

would you rather we let a player of irelands quality, a player who'll walk into our team regardless of who the manager is, slip through our fingers when the opportunity is there to bring him in?

honestly?

My point is it's not what I think about Ireland, it's that a fan, any fan, whether a CEO, Chairman, or a Holte End season ticket holder like myself shouldn't be deciding who comes in, the manager should.

If Kevin MacDonald has said "Yes" then OK, but even then, he's the caretaker and there's no guarantee he'll stay as manager. I hope he is a massive success, I hope if Ireland comes, that he is too.

But we don't know that Kev Mac will stay as manager, and then there could be problems with Ireland. I hope not, of course.

No Disrespect Blandy! But whats the difference between a Holte End Season Ticket Holder and Just a Villa Season Ticket Holder?

Just Curious, does this make Holte Enders Immortal compared to your fellow supporters in the North Stand for example? :?

Interesting Read at the start by the Way!

[blandy]

I think I've not explained my point very well. There's no difference between one season ticket holder and the next. Gav asked me would I rather....., and my answer was meant to say that what I think (as a Holte End season ticket holding fan) was no more or less relevant to doing a deal than the view of any other fan. In fact, it is the manager and only the manager who should decide who he wants, but we don't have one, we've got a caretaker, so WHO decided and why.

[snowychap]

In fact, it is the manager and only the manager who should decide who he wants, but we don't have one, we've got a caretaker, so WHO deicded and why.

Does General Krulak answer part of your question, blandy?

If trades are to take place within the current window, decisions will be made by the interim manager, Randy, and advisors.

p.s. A very good piece.

[lexicon]

I liked it Blandy.

Milner leaving is actually really sad. I hope Ireland comes in and does well but it'll be gutting to see Milner in a Cashchester Citeh shirt.

[CrackpotForeigner]

If he comes out at his Man City preference and says "Look, they are paying me by the bucket load, just look at it all, who wouldn't, eh?, I mean I don't have any affinity with City or the manager, and they'll probably sack me off in 12 months or so, but bloody hell look at all the money. Wahey!" I might forgive the whole sorry mess, but more likely, even with his savvy, he's going to say "thanks to Villa..." and then spout some variation of the "career progression...Big Club going places.." standard spoff. Does anyone really believe this stuff is genuinely meant?

Class.

[blandy]

Thanks snowy - I hadn't seen that.

It doesn't really answer my concern at all though. it's a generic answer to "who?" but not to "why?"

If it's a case of the deal was half way through, MO'N left, we had the option and the above parties decided of the two options it was better to carry on with the swap deal, then I'm uncomfortable, but it's an honest judgement.

It can't be helped, the situation MO'N left us in, but I worry that decisions on the merits of a player(s) to be brought to the club are possibly being made by people not ideally suited to make those decisions. I guess with only 2 weeks left to make them, and no manager in place this sort of muddle through is going to happen and perhaps unavoidable but I wonder about the implications longer term, a bit. It's a risk.

[rjshare]

Thanks snowy - I hadn't seen that.

It doesn't really answer my concern at all though. it's a generic answer to "who?" but not to "why?"

If it's a case of the deal was half way through, MO'N left, we had the option and the above parties decided of the two options it was better to carry on with the swap deal, then I'm uncomfortable, but it's an honest judgement.

It can't be helped, the situation MO'N left us in, but I worry that decisions on the merits of a player(s) to be brought to the club are possibly being made by people not ideally suited to make those decisions. I guess with only 2 weeks left to make them, and no manager in place this sort of muddle through is going to happen and perhaps unavoidable but I wonder about the implications longer term, a bit. It's a risk.

i can see entirely why you feel concerned by the deal, but i think you have to look at it as being an exception due to exceptional circumstances rather than a new club policy regarding transfer dealings.

if it all goes t1Ts up then its randys money that randy has wasted by buying a player that turned out to be a bad egg. however - randy trusted mons judgement for four years and if mon was happy to be bringing ireland in then i guess randy must think he will be a good aquisition.

when (or if) a new manager comes in then ireland will just be another member of the current squad that he inherits.

[blandy]

Very fair comment rj, and true. I guess the OP I wrote was just expressing my concerns for the situation. Some share at least some of them, some don't. That's fine.

[heystally!]

There is no doubt in my mind the fact we have sold one of our best players for a second summer in a row was a factor in Martin O'Neill leaving. He must've been thinking what's the point identifying quality players and getting them to come to Villa only for the club, for financial reasons, to go and sell them?

The only financial reasons as to why we sold Barry and why we have pretty much sold Milner are that Man City can pay them ridiculous wages.

Both players wanted to leave. Simple as that. If O'Neill couldn't accept that fact then he was in the wrong job.

[El_Hierro]

when (or if) a new manager comes in then ireland will just be another member of the current squad that he inherits.

This for me. If/when a new manager arrives he will have 25 (more or less) new players he might like/not like, not just Ireland. And if Ireland had been wrapped up a week earlier, would it really have made any difference?

[rjshare]

There is no doubt in my mind the fact we have sold one of our best players for a second summer in a row was a factor in Martin O'Neill leaving. He must've been thinking what's the point identifying quality players and getting them to come to Villa only for the club, for financial reasons, to go and sell them?

The only financial reasons as to why we sold Barry and why we have pretty much sold Milner are that Man City can pay them ridiculous wages.

Both players wanted to leave. Simple as that. If O'Neill couldn't accept that fact then he was in the wrong job.

what mon hasnt got to grips with is that although he hates seeing his players go to clubs who pay more wages than his club - none of the clubs who pay the highest wages want him as manager

[Jon]

when (or if) a new manager comes in then ireland will just be another member of the current squad that he inherits.

This for me. If/when a new manager arrives he will have 25 (more or less) new players he might like/not like, not just Ireland. And if Ireland had been wrapped up a week earlier, would it really have made any difference?

That's largely my take on it too.

For the new guy, all of the players will be new to him, not just Ireland. So from that POV, it's not a huge issue. As the deal was going through, kind of made sense to see it through to the end.

Wouldn't want any more signings like this though without the new manager picking them!! :winkold:

[snowychap]

Thanks snowy - I hadn't seen that.

It doesn't really answer my concern at all though. it's a generic answer to "who?" but not to "why?"

True. They why is probably more to do with the deal being half way through - though I share your lack of comfort at it still happening without a permanent manager in place.

[heystally!]

when (or if) a new manager comes in then ireland will just be another member of the current squad that he inherits.

This for me. If/when a new manager arrives he will have 25 (more or less) new players he might like/not like, not just Ireland. And if Ireland had been wrapped up a week earlier, would it really have made any difference?

Could Ireland's transfer, made at a time without a manager, be a big hint that MacDonald is a serious contender for the job? Surely Lerner would have asked MacDonald whether he would fit into the team/squad.

[Jon]

Could Ireland's transfer, made at a time without a manager, be a big hint that MacDonald is a serious contender for the job? Surely Lerner would have asked MacDonald whether he would fit into the team/squad.

earlier in the thread ....

If trades are to take place within the current window, decisions will be made by the interim manager, Randy, and advisors.

[heystally!]

Could Ireland's transfer, made at a time without a manager, be a big hint that MacDonald is a serious contender for the job? Surely Lerner would have asked MacDonald whether he would fit into the team/squad.

earlier in the thread ....

If trades are to take place within the current window, decisions will be made by the interim manager, Randy, and advisors.

Danke.

[snowychap]

when (or if) a new manager comes in then ireland will just be another member of the current squad that he inherits.

This for me. If/when a new manager arrives he will have 25 (more or less) new players he might like/not like, not just Ireland. And if Ireland had been wrapped up a week earlier, would it really have made any difference?

Ireland won't be another member of the current squad, he'll be a new member of the current squad.

Would it have made a difference? Probably not - it would have been almost as poor, though.

I just think it's not a good place to go (especially with the General's comments which to me sound like the club are quite happy to make transfers without a new permanent manager - though it is always possible that the interim manager becomes that permanent manager or that the next permanent manager is one of the 'advisors').

[rjshare]

when (or if) a new manager comes in then ireland will just be another member of the current squad that he inherits.

This for me. If/when a new manager arrives he will have 25 (more or less) new players he might like/not like, not just Ireland. And if Ireland had been wrapped up a week earlier, would it really have made any difference?

Could Ireland's transfer, made at a time without a manager, be a big hint that MacDonald is a serious contender for the job? Surely Lerner would have asked MacDonald whether he would fit into the team/squad.

perhaps - but the whole deal was set in motion when mon was still here so it had already had one well respected endorsement.

as you say it could suggest that kmac is in line for the job - it might also indicate that whatever kmac thinks, lerner thinks it is a good deal - and kmac will be back coaching the reserves next week anyway.

[AstonMartin82]

would you rather we let a player of irelands quality, a player who'll walk into our team regardless of who the manager is, slip through our fingers when the opportunity is there to bring him in?

honestly?

My point is it's not what I think about Ireland, it's that a fan, any fan, whether a CEO, Chairman, or a Holte End season ticket holder like myself shouldn't be deciding who comes in, the manager should.

If Kevin MacDonald has said "Yes" then OK, but even then, he's the caretaker and there's no guarantee he'll stay as manager. I hope he is a massive success, I hope if Ireland comes, that he is too.

But we don't know that Kev Mac will stay as manager, and then there could be problems with Ireland. I hope not, of course.

I understand what you are saying from a football point of view. But if I was Randy Lerner I would be looking at it from a financial point of view. Give him £8m and he won't be able to turn it that easily into £16m in a year. However, give him a football player for £8m at half his value, then he will be able to sell him if it doesn't work out in a years time for £16m.

Admittedly, it might go tits up and he looses his investment but the risk on doubling your money elsewhere compared to Stephen Ireland is massively higher.