WC 2010: Group C Chat (England etc)

[trekka]

So, Slovenia need to avoid a loss and we need to win. They're going to park the bus in front of goal and we have to hope that we get a bit of luck. It's going to be a very, very tense game.

[Rainer]

The longer the Slovenia game gos on at 0-0 its going to get very intense.. Especially if USA take the lead..

And well done Stephen Warnock. Most of the England players have gone to play golf today... Warnocks gone to help African kids learn how to play football.

[carew_villa]

If we don't make it through the group stage we HAVE to sack Capello!

I've always said how nearly any manager could have qualified us from that group!

We need to play 451 or 433 against Slovenia!

[Jez]

Its not the tactics or the manager its England as a team and a country.

Look at the front pages today.

The media just dont get that they are part of the problem.

The expectation is just too intense, look at Holland playing shite like us because the expectation is too high, there are quality players in there for both teams yet when it comes to the country nothing!

It doesn't matter what manager what tactics, put Mourinho as our manager and we would still be dire.

[Chindie]

I think the expectation argument is being well overplayed.

I think it has considerably more to do with the players. Be it talent or desire, it ain't happening.

And more than a small part of me thinks they don't like Capello and want rid.

[MR.Smalljob]

This is how it is

.

.Fabio Capello's England are staring down the barrel of an early elimination from the World Cup.

If the Three Lions fail to overcome Slovenia in Port Elizabeth on Wednesday they will almost certainly be on their way home, without a win to their name and their reputation in tatters.

There is an escape hatch, but getting through it is almost impossible.

Here, Press Association Sport looks at the various scenarios for next week's game.

ENGLAND BEAT SLOVENIA, USA DRAW OR LOSE AGAINST ALGERIA IN PRETORIA.

The best case scenario. England would qualify as Group C winners with five points and secure a meeting with the runners-up from Group D. If the United States draw, Slovenia (4) would advance as runners-up, if USA lose, goal difference would determine whether Slovenia (currently +1) or Algeria (-1) would go through as well.

ENGLAND BEAT SLOVENIA, USA BEAT ALGERIA.

England and USA finish level on five points and both go through. Group C winners would be decided by goal difference. If that remains level, as is currently the case, goals scored (currently England 1, USA 3) would decide who finishes top.

ENGLAND DRAW, USA DRAW.

Slovenia would go through, with England and USA finishing level on three points and goals scored deciding who goes through. If the two sides are also level on goals scored, lots would be drawn.

ENGLAND DRAW, USA WIN OR LOSE.

England finish on three points and are eliminated. In the first instance, USA would finish level with Slovenia on five points, in the second, Algeria would jump above England on four and claim runners-up spot.

ENGLAND LOSE.

England bow out with two points

[TrentVilla]

It doesn't matter what manager what tactics, put Mourinho as our manager and we would still be dire.

I'd love to put this theory to the test and I think you would be proved wrong.

[Chindie]

It doesn't matter what manager what tactics, put Mourinho as our manager and we would still be dire.

I'd love to put this theory to the test and I think you would be proved wrong.

I agree.

We would be dire to watch however, but we'd be good.

[TrentVilla]

It doesn't matter what manager what tactics, put Mourinho as our manager and we would still be dire.

I'd love to put this theory to the test and I think you would be proved wrong.

I agree.

We would be dire to watch however, but we'd be good.

Dire to watch but good would be a step up from dire to watch but shite.

[Jez]

I think the expectation argument is being well overplayed.

I think it has considerably more to do with the players. Be it talent or desire, it ain't happening.

And more than a small part of me thinks they don't like Capello and want rid.

Year after year, manager after manager.

Most of these plays show, effort, talent and passion on a weekly basis for their clubs.

Suddenly they cannot for England, why is Lampard for example always shit for England regardless of the manager. Its his last world cup last chance to shine, nothing...

Same with all other managers for as long as i remember, so its not just the current one with the current tactics.

Ever since wc 90 look how the national side is treated, Southgate missing criticism through the roof, dummies of Beckham hanging from lampposts for whatever he did cannot remember what.

Imagine if we got through to the final and Heskey missed a pen for arguments sake, how much shit would he get.

Players are thinking is it even worth it, the pressure is ridiculous!

After the first game we heard all this bollocks about making right, doing the job etc etc and look what happened.

Now again, booing fans national outrage. The players know what they have to do, will say all the right things before Wed but come the game nothing will happen.

We wont take charge we wont show our quality, if we win it will be a scraped win.

I'm sure they dont mean to do it but once they are out there its 11 individuals all shit scared of something and unable to play like they can play.

Are you telling me that Rooney and Lampard two of the best players this premier league season can suddenly turn into the shite we see out there?

Brainwash them all and tell them its a champions league final for their club we would probably have a good crack at winning the WC.

[briggaman]

I think the expectation argument is being well overplayed.

I think it has considerably more to do with the players. Be it talent or desire, it ain't happening.

And more than a small part of me thinks they don't like Capello and want rid.

This. I'm sick of the age old excuse of too much pressure. They are grown men that are paid a bloody fortune to kick a football around for 90 minutes. Perhaps they should pull their heads out of their backsides and start to play some football...

On another note, I can't believe that they are off playing golf (again). I would have them watching videos of their shit performance all day long today. It seems as if they are on a holiday over there. Playing golf all the time and going on safari trips.

Oh, if we don't get past the group stage then Capello should either be sacked or resign. It quite simply wouldn't be good enough.

[Maradona10]

I'm with Jez on this one, there was a reason Mourinho turned us down before! Mourinho would still play with the useless Lampard in the middle which is part of the problem!

[Jez]

It doesn't matter what manager what tactics, put Mourinho as our manager and we would still be dire.

I'd love to put this theory to the test and I think you would be proved wrong.

I agree.

We would be dire to watch however, but we'd be good.

Dire to watch but good would be a step up from dire to watch but shite.

I dont, see above.

Are we just a nation with always shit managers?

There is always a problem and always seems to be the managers fault.

I bet Cappello doesn't get it, he has done what he has always as a manger once out there they just dont do it, he is constantly losing it on the side-lines these days, he just doesn't understand what is going on once our there.

Cracks me up this Rooney up front with Gerrard behind like everyone keeps suggesting.

It wont make the blind bit of difference what we do.

[TrentVilla]

Year after year, manager after manager.

Some truth in that, the player pool is too small, no question.

Suddenly they cannot for England, why is Lampard for example always shit for England regardless of the manager. Its his last world cup last chance to shine, nothing...

He is never allowed to play the same role for England that he does for Chelsea which is half the problem.

Ever since wc 90 look how the national side is treated, Southgate missing criticism through the roof, dummies of Beckham hanging from lampposts for whatever he did cannot remember what.

He kicked the Argie and got sent off. That photo was done for The Sun, now ask yourself do you think someone really went to all that trouble or do you think The Sun might just have done it to give themselves a great picture??? I know which I think.

Players are thinking is it even worth it, the pressure is ridiculous!

Your evidence for this statement being????? Don't claim Carragher and Scholes retirement as proof either. Both quit due to being played out of position for years, frustration getting the better of them as they reached the later stage of their careers and they opted to prolong their very successful club careers and have more time with the family.

I don't see any evidence of players not thinking appearing at the World Cup is worth it.

After the first game we heard all this bollocks about making right, doing the job etc etc and look what happened.

Not sure what your point is, what did you want them to day?

I'm sure they dont mean to do it but once they are out there its 11 individuals all shit scared of something and unable to play like they can play.

I don't think there scared, I think they are a team lacking in confidence, some of them knackered after a long season, some of them like Rooney and Terry in really poor form.

Players with problems of the pitch like Cole and Terry.

I think the problem is we have some very good players in poor form and then some very average (by international standard) players thrown together and not looking anything like a team. Playing tactics which are alien to most of them (442) compared to their club sides and trying to force a way of playing that simply doesn't match the players we have.

[Maradona10]

Jez can't believe we share the same opinion, those people crying for Gerrard behind Rooney have short memories, we tried it before and it didn't work! Our midfield let the game pass them by, don't actually get the ball down! Rooney keeps dropping deep, when Capello instructs him to stay up top! Just can't wait for Rodwell to develop as he'll be superb in the middle!

[TrentVilla]

I'm with Jez on this one, there was a reason Mourinho turned us down before! Mourinho would still play with the useless Lampard in the middle which is part of the problem!

Yews, he said what it was. He wanted to focus on club football and day to day management and go into International football when he was older.

If he was in charge of this team I'm certain we wouldn't be playing 4-4-2 for a start and he would be getting the best out of the likes of Gerrard and Lampard.

I'm not saying we have a great team, clearly we don't but then I don't think Capello is getting the best out of the players at his disposal either and I think Mourinho would be doing a better job with the same players.

I tell you something else, there would be none of this naming his team 2 hours before kick off bullshit. He would instill confidence in his players as he always does and he would take the pressure of them like he always does.

[steve-67]

Lampard has a completely free role for Chelsea. No defending unless he wants to. He scores so many because he takes everything for them. He can't play in a 4-4-2 because it makes him do the work he really should be doing for Chelsea. I know the bloke scores loads of goals, so would Milner if we had two holding players giving him freedom. Gerrard shouldn't have been moved out to the left, just to accommodate Lampard.

[TrentVilla]

Lampard has a completely free role for Chelsea. No defending unless he wants to. He scores so many because he takes everything for them. He can't play in a 4-4-2 because it makes him do the work he really should be doing for Chelsea. I know the bloke scores loads of goals, so would Milner if we had two holding players giving him freedom. Gerrard shouldn't have been moved out to the left, just to accommodate Lampard.

Spot on. You either play Lampard in the same role as he plays for Chelsea and you build him the platform to do it or you don't play him. With Gerrard you let him play his natural game or you don't play him.

You don't pick a formation and then try and force them both into it and hope for the best.

[Maradona10]

Trent, those same players have played 4-4-2 over two years of qualifying so that ain't going to wash, people may say Andorra but we scored 9 past Croatia who I'd say are better than Algeria, they are full internationals and this blaming the tactics is a kop out! The only thing I'd say Capello got wrong is not taking some of these overpaid players like Lampard and make him sit on the sidelines!

[Jez]

I think the problem is we have some very good players in poor form and then some very average (by international standard) players thrown together and not looking anything like a team. Playing tactics which are alien to most of them (442) compared to their club sides and trying to force a way of playing that simply doesn't match the players we have.

Do other nations play the same formation that all their players play?

We've tried Lampard in his club position in the past, nothing.

Same with Gerrard, same with Rooney.

All happened in the past still the same old same old dire poor performances.

I dont expect us to get anywhere near winning the cup even before it started.

But i did expect them to play a little different to the last major competitions, which they are not doing, infact doing worse.

Managers and players are not perfect that is true, we're not as good as the nation thinks we are thats also true.

But when players from top european clubs like Chelsea and Utd cannot do the basics once out their for their country.

It has to be something else...

Change the tactics play to everyones strengths, it wont change a thing, we've tried in the past and nothing happened.