Bolitics The New Condem Government

[blandy]

Well, maybe it's to do with truth?

The T-shirt message is (like it or not) true.

The "story" in the rag is untrue.

[peterms]

Just watching the Newsnight interview from last night of Jon Steafal and Alistair Campbell.  Even Campbell says he felt the PM had said the right thing,  he was glad with what Cameron had said.

 

So that's Campbell and Prescott (not normal bedfellows) at least saying the same.

 

What Campbell said, as an aside, was "I'm glad David Cameron and Nick Clegg have supported him in what he did".

 

He made no comment either way on whether this being the full extent of Cameron's comment was adequate or acceptable, neither did he comment on Clegg having said the Mail was wrong and Cameron and other ministers carefully avoiding making any such comment.

[peterms]

less time on the conspiracy theory stuff and you'd have time to remove those hyperlinks

Why would I remove someone else's hyperlinks when quoting them?

 

I even quoted the lines again for you .. he basically says Ed had the right to reply  ...twice

 

True , he goes further on his attack on the Mail but lets be honest he does has his own agenda  and from his words his attack is influenced from his own pov and background rather than any principled stand on behalf of Milliband as you tried to portray

No, I think he is taking a stand on the issue of principle, not defending Miliband...

 

and to highlight your Cameron point   ..he did comment .. what riles you is he didn't comment in the way you wanted him to  ..but as has probably been pointed out to you by the majority of people by now , most people didn't expect him to and more importantly don't care

...whereas Cameron is avoiding taking a position on the issue of principle, disingenuously pretending there isn't one, and that it's just a private and personal disagreement. Like I say, this might be driven by fear of upsetting Dacre and the taxdodging owners of the rag in question, or it might be because central office and Cameron's attack dog are also complicit in starting up smear campaigns and intend to continue like this for the next two years.

 

In view of your posts  though I am somewhat surprised that you still haven't condemned Ed for the picture I posted of him standing next to the clearing in the woods in the T-shirt .. or perhaps it is something you feel you needn't necessarily comment on  .. which puts us back to where we were a few days ago ....

The notion that an attack like this in a national newspaper and a website with a large readership is on the same level as, and demands an equivalent response to, some guy wearing a t-shirt, is ludicrous.

[peterms]

So who's your problem with then. It seems like its Cameron, I think. Yet the Elder statesmen of the Labour party think he has   supported Ed

My problem is with the pustulent cretin Dacre.

Cameron's problem is that Miliband has attracted more positive publicity then him in the week of his own party conference; that one of the main mouthpieces for the tory line has lost the goodwill of a part of their readership; that he is seen to back away from expressing a view on the rights and wrongs of what the Mail said; and that this incident will reinforce the growing disquiet in his own ranks about the use of lies, smears, and the rest of the stock-in-trade of the loathsome henchman he has employed. Cameron's doe-eyed naivete about the devious and lying Coulson have already raised big questions within senior members of his own party about his lack of judgement, and this will compound them.

Don't confuse Labour figures commenting that Cameron has supported Miliband with a view that he has done what he should have, or that he has gone far enough. They are just trying to place a wedge between Cameron and the Mail.

[peterms]

God that bloke on Newsnight just then was a prick. I don't like Alastair Campbell but he asked direct questions and didn't give a direct answer.

 

Why is Dacre hiding? The Mail have really cocked up here.

Just caught it on the iplayer.

It was very unbalanced, having that wooden oaf up against Campbell, but that's not the Beeb's fault.

It seems Dacre preferred to hide away in his bunker, or perhaps he was up at his Berchtesgaden.

[tonyh29]

peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 2:54 PM, said:

 

that one of the main mouthpieces for the tory line has lost the goodwill of a part of their readership;

 

 

tomorrows chip wrappers  .. until the nasty EU Nazi's banned it

[tonyh29]

 

So who's your problem with then. It seems like its Cameron, I think. Yet the Elder statesmen of the Labour party think he has   supported Ed

My problem is with the pustulent cretin Dacre.

Cameron's problem is that Miliband has attracted more positive publicity then him in the week of his own party conference; that one of the main mouthpieces for the tory line has lost the goodwill of a part of their readership; that he is seen to back away from expressing a view on the rights and wrongs of what the Mail said; and that this incident will reinforce the growing disquiet in his own ranks about the use of lies, smears, and the rest of the stock-in-trade of the loathsome henchman he has employed. Cameron's doe-eyed naivete about the devious and lying Coulson have already raised big questions within senior members of his own party about his lack of judgement, and this will compound them.

Don't confuse Labour figures commenting that Cameron has supported Miliband with a view that he has done what he should have, or that he has gone far enough. They are just trying to place a wedge between Cameron and the Mail.

 

2 conspiracy theories for the price of one  ... I like it 

[colhint]

So if they are trying to drive a wedge between Cameron and the Mail, you don't think Campbell might be behind this do you

[PauloBarnesi]

People are worrying about another Conservative/Labour/Libdem/SNP/MRLP/Drat/TonyH/Blandy Government.

 

This is more worrying...

 

Dacre signs new contract

 

 

 

Paul Dacre has agreed to a new contract as editor of the Daily Mail, the chairman of the Daily Mail & General Trust has revealed.

 

In a rare interview with Tatler magazine, Viscount Rothermere quashed suggestions that Dacre would depart the editor's chair soon after his 65th birthday on 14 November.

 

"Paul Dacre is not stepping down as editor of the Daily Mail, where he is still doing a brilliant job – indeed, he has just agreed to a new contract," he said.

 

Dacre, who has edited the Daily Mail since 1992 and took home £1.79m last year, is employed on a rolling one-year contract which was due to expire on his birthday next month.

 

It is not clear when the new contract was agreed – a spokeswoman for DMGT declined to comment – but Rothermere's disclosure will answer rumours about Dacre's near-term future at the title.

 

The famously media-shy proprietor was also drawn on speculation that Geordie Greig, the Mail on Sunday editor, was being lined up as the successor to Dacre.

 

"When the time comes for Paul to hang up his hat from day-to-day editing of the Mail, I think that Geordie is definitely a contender," he said in the November issue of Tatler, which will be available on Thursday.

 

"He's proven himself as a magazine and newspaper man and he is definitely in the frame. But I am fortunate that, in my company, there are many strong contenders."

 

According to Tatler, Greig flatly denied that his potential future editorship of the Daily Mail had been discussed – "Do not believe the rumours," he said – and declined to say whether he would want the job if it became available.

 

Rothermere said of Greig: "He's a very bright and he's an excellent journalist and he's his own man. He's the right choice and he's done a good job, so Paul Dacre and I made the right call."

 

The assurance about Dacre's future comes amid a growing swell of hostility towards the Daily Mail over its controversial article on Ed Milband's late father, which described the prominent socialist as "the man who hated Britain".

 

A visibly angry Miliband took to television studios on Tuesday to express his fury that the newspaper had refused to apologise over Saturday's article.

 

"I was appalled when I read the Daily Mail on Saturday and saw them saying that he hated Britain. It's a lie," he said. "I'm even more appalled that they repeated that lie today and have gone further and described my father's legacy as 'evil'. Evil is a word reserved for particular cases and I was not willing to let that stand."

 

The Daily Mail is standing by the article, which it republished on Tuesday alongside a 1,000-word editorial that set out its refusal to apologise.

[peterms]

So if they are trying to drive a wedge between Cameron and the Mail, you don't think Campbell might be behind this do you

It's not a sophisticated campaign, just a standard political response.  They make comments like "Cameron has supported Miliband in what he has done" to leave the impression that he was critical of the Mail, though he has studiously avoided criticising them.  It's just what politicians do, it comes as naturally as breathing.  Any time there's any apparent division between people nominally on the same side, their opponents will comment on it, drawing attention to it.  You can hear similar things a thousand times a day, on all sides.

 

What I would have preferred is some discussion of the bigger principles.  To his credit, Heseltine has done that.  When he says "This is carrying politics to an extent that is just demeaning, frankly. The headline isn't justified. It is completely out of context. As everybody knows the guy fought for this country and we now live in a totally different world to the clash between communism and fascism", he's using the Miliband case as the presenting problem, but his concern is clearly with the bigger issue of the boundaries of legitimate comment.  That seems to me to be a more worthwhile intervention than either Prescott's reflex, or Cameron's studied evasion.

[drat01]

Peterms has basically summed up everything perfectly

[drat01]

Seems as though there have been calls by the tory party members (at a tax payers alliance meeting at the conference) for the abolition of the minimum wage . More embarrassment so it seems

[peterms]

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 4h

The sound of Tory ministers frantically trying to avoid upsetting the Daily Mail is truly nauseating. They need to grow a collective pair.

[tonyh29]

peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 4h

The sound of Tory ministers frantically trying to avoid upsetting the Daily Mail is truly nauseating. They need to grow a collective pair.

 

 

Iain Dale as in the bloke arrested for scuffling on the beach at Brighton ?

 

you really should chose your influences more closely

Edited October 2, 2013 by tonyh29

[peterms]

 

peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 4h

The sound of Tory ministers frantically trying to avoid upsetting the Daily Mail is truly nauseating. They need to grow a collective pair.

 

 

Iain Dale as in the bloke arrested for scuffling on the beach at Brighton ?

 

you really should chose your influences more closely

 

 

Yes, Iain Dale the Tory blogger and presenter.  And all the tory MPs I've been quoting.  You're right, I need to choose a more wholesome selection of people to quote from.  Their views might start to sway my thinking. 

 

I can feel this dull pain in my head...scroungers and layabouts...mess we inherited...swamped with immigrants...hardworking families...tough decisions...necessary cuts...expansionary fiscal contraction...flog the blighters...zzzzzz

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

 

CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 02 Oct 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

'Land of opportunity'.

 

I'm not sure tapping into the American Dream works outside the small percentage of people (on these islands) who still see the US as the ideal.

 

Although, it is further proof of what many have believed for years - that the centre-right is becoming increasingly 'American'. Fortunately we don't do religion. Not yet at least. I don't think it is too far fetched to imagine a Tory party torn between 'conservative' Tories, (CoE, middle-class white people, UKIP sympathisers), and the more 'moderate' Tories who are a little more European (yes, you heard!) in outlook (Cameron, despite trying to woo the older crowd, is one of them), who are more focused on £££ than whether or not certain people can marry.

 

Saw some poll of poll thingy the other day that suggested if the Tory party were to fight the election in some form of pact with UKIP , around 25% of Tory voters said they wouldn't vote for them  and 5% said they would switch to Labour , 4% to the libs and the rest wouldn't vote

 

now obviously that still leaves 75% that would  but it raises an interesting issue for the Tory party  ...

 

 

I imagine most of those would be 'moderates', i.e. conservative voters who are socially progressive but prefer the Tories pro-business approach. Jump into bed with UKIP and you suddenly take a lurch to the right, which alienates the voters you need to win an election.

 

The dilemma, as you hinted at, is that the Tories can't afford a small percentage of their traditional voters to leave for UKIP.

 

But, as someone on the radio just mentioned (4?), the Tories would make a mistake if they went after 4% of their vote at the cost of 8%.

[tonyh29]

peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 6:10 PM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:50 PM, said:

 

peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:peterms, on 02 Oct 2013 - 5:46 PM, said:

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 4h

The sound of Tory ministers frantically trying to avoid upsetting the Daily Mail is truly nauseating. They need to grow a collective pair.

 

 

Iain Dale as in the bloke arrested for scuffling on the beach at Brighton ?

 

you really should chose your influences more closely

 

 

Yes, Iain Dale the Tory blogger and presenter.  And all the tory MPs I've been quoting.  You're right, I need to choose a more wholesome selection of people to quote from.  Their views might start to sway my thinking. 

 

I can feel this dull pain in my head...scroungers and layabouts...mess we inherited...swamped with immigrants...hardworking families...tough decisions...necessary cuts...expansionary fiscal contraction...flog the blighters...zzzzzz

 

 

that will teach you to read left foot forward  ...

 

but I agree with you on the hardworking families  line ... I've slagged politicians off for that "hardworking" crap before ..I find it patronising and a bit pants

[tonyh29]

CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 02 Oct 2013 - 6:19 PM, said:CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 02 Oct 2013 - 6:19 PM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 02 Oct 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:tonyh29, on 02 Oct 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

 

CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 02 Oct 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 02 Oct 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 02 Oct 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

'Land of opportunity'.

 

I'm not sure tapping into the American Dream works outside the small percentage of people (on these islands) who still see the US as the ideal.

 

Although, it is further proof of what many have believed for years - that the centre-right is becoming increasingly 'American'. Fortunately we don't do religion. Not yet at least. I don't think it is too far fetched to imagine a Tory party torn between 'conservative' Tories, (CoE, middle-class white people, UKIP sympathisers), and the more 'moderate' Tories who are a little more European (yes, you heard!) in outlook (Cameron, despite trying to woo the older crowd, is one of them), who are more focused on £££ than whether or not certain people can marry.

 

Saw some poll of poll thingy the other day that suggested if the Tory party were to fight the election in some form of pact with UKIP , around 25% of Tory voters said they wouldn't vote for them  and 5% said they would switch to Labour , 4% to the libs and the rest wouldn't vote

 

now obviously that still leaves 75% that would  but it raises an interesting issue for the Tory party  ...

 

 

I imagine most of those would be 'moderates', i.e. conservative voters who are socially progressive but prefer the Tories pro-business approach. Jump into bed with UKIP and you suddenly take a lurch to the right, which alienates the voters you need to win an election.

 

The dilemma, as you hinted at, is that the Tories can't afford a small percentage of their traditional voters to leave for UKIP.

 

But, as someone on the radio just mentioned (4?), the Tories would make a mistake if they went after 4% of their vote at the cost of 8%.

 

 

hey,  Gordon cancelled an election because the polls told him he was winning so stranger things have happened in politics

 

 

PS in order to be kind I should point out that in an interview at the same time in 2007 he said

 

I asked him who he wanted me to talk up as potential future leaders when I briefed this out to the media. His eyes narrowed again, and he reeled off surnames like a football manager naming his First XI:

“Purnell. Miliband. Kelly. Burnham. Cooper. Balls. Miliband.” I replied: “You’ve already said Miliband.”

GB: “Both of them.”

Me: “Really? You want me to say Ed Miliband?”

 

He looked surprised: “You need to watch Ed Miliband, he’s the one to watch.”

Edited October 2, 2013 by tonyh29

[Risso]

How much does the Daily Mail hate you?

 

http://toys.usvsth3m.com/are-you-hated-by-the-daily-mail/

[mockingbird_franklin]

How much does the Daily Mail hate you?

 

http://toys.usvsth3m.com/are-you-hated-by-the-daily-mail/

It was close but with justified relief. I'm hated by the Daily Mail