Bolitics The New Condem Government

[mockingbird_franklin]

I was purely replying to the phrase Tory cuts. I merely pointed out that Balls has said all along that he would make cuts. I went to google it and found about 6 pages about it. Take anyone you like there are plenty there. The only thing he hasn't really said is what and how much.

 

 As for disbandment of the NHS, you keep saying it but nobody has privatised it more than Labour

Those acts where done under a government which carried the Labour parties name, However by then it had ceased being a the Labour party in all but name due to that war criminal Thacherite getting his hands on it.

[colhint]

No way is it a run up to an election. If it had been,  Ed would have announced his government would ban death and a windfall tax so that everyone could have free tickets to see 1 direction

[thetrees]

The health service is certainly in better hands under Labour - they virtually bust our economy with the massive spending on it during their tenure, which is borne out by how long it is taking the present government to bring the deficit down.

That's just so wrong that I can't believe you've read anything about the causes of the financial crash that didn't come out of tory central office or the rags which reprint its press releases, unless you're just on a windup.  Do you really believe that the global financial crisis was the result of the UK government's spending on the HNS or anything else?  Really?

Nope, but I don't wear the left's overuse of the word 'global'

It is clear that our 'shit' was much deeper than any of our Northern European neighbours, and we climbed into that 'shit' during a long period where one very intelligent man ran the economy.

In my opinion that man, and the people in Government with him, let the people of this country down badly. The people most affected were the honest, working people, who don't benefit from good education, and who were duped into spending non-existent equity by banks, credit companies and the like, all of whom were under the watchful eye of a government that was happy to reap the platitudes of running the world's 4th largest economy.

The irony is that the people who have been badly let down are the ones who vote Labour, but then we are all sheep in the world of politics.

[drat01]

 

 

The health service is certainly in better hands under Labour - they virtually bust our economy with the massive spending on it during their tenure, which is borne out by how long it is taking the present government to bring the deficit down.

That's just so wrong that I can't believe you've read anything about the causes of the financial crash that didn't come out of tory central office or the rags which reprint its press releases, unless you're just on a windup.  Do you really believe that the global financial crisis was the result of the UK government's spending on the HNS or anything else?  Really?

Nope, but I don't wear the left's overuse of the word 'global'

It is clear that our 'shit' was much deeper than any of our Northern European neighbours, and we climbed into that 'shit' during a long period where one very intelligent man ran the economy.

In my opinion that man, and the people in Government with him, let the people of this country down badly. The people most affected were the honest, working people, who don't benefit from good education, and who were duped into spending non-existent equity by banks, credit companies and the like, all of whom were under the watchful eye of a government that was happy to reap the platitudes of running the world's 4th largest economy.

The irony is that the people who have been badly let down are the ones who vote Labour, but then we are all sheep in the world of politics.

 

I disagree re your status of the UK compared the other european countries especially when you look at the context of global economics . I appreciate you are one of the Tory supporters who dislike Labour, but to somehow try and blame the UK Labour party for world issues ironically caused by the same people that this Gvmt especially are bent over backwards (forwards and sidewards) to support - ie major finance - is somewhat wrong. 

[drat01]

I'm sure you don't read my posts. 

 

Initially I responded to the post which stated the same old Savage Tory cuts. I never said anything about Labour not making cuts, I don' t think I ever have. I was pointing out to the poster that whoever won the 2010 election would have made cuts. Labour would have made different idealogical cuts. It appears to me that you are confusing my posts with others.

 

So as for the Energy question, I  realise  I cant have free energy as much as I would like. I also know that we import more and more energy, so the price of that is beyond Red Eds cluthes,  I also know about 11.5% of the bill is down to the Last Labour government. If people want green taxes on energy bills they have to be paid for. I just think its hypocritcal to blame the companies when he introduced the biggest hike of all. Furthermore this was tried in Argentina but led to power cuts.  I think I'm  pragmatic enough to realise  if the choice  is if what we pay now, which I think is below average for Europe, or power outages, then I'll take what we pay now

I read your posts all of the time - usually I don't agree with many of them on politics but on the whole are reasonable. I am sure you have not been reading mine though because you are still making no sense in resepct to the points being raised. As said many Tory supporting Vt'ers for example have stated the myth as fact re Labour and Balls in particular and cuts. As I said it's good to see a Tory supporter admitting that this was a myth and we can firmly put that ridiculous thing to bed now (and mock anyone who claims it in the future)

 

Re energy and the whole "stalinist" - "red this" stuff etc, what would you say to a political heavyweight who claimed that "use it or lose it" to property developers then? (and hint, yes that is a loaded question) 

[drat01]

No way is it a run up to an election. If it had been,  Ed would have announced his government would ban death and a windfall tax so that everyone could have free tickets to see 1 direction

- loving the desperation now - So Gideon's announcements pre the last election were based on commitments and promises? What about Clegg's - easier to count on 1 finger the number that he meant. I notice you fail to mention the other parties, anyone for a "ahhh bit L......" ?

[colhint]

just wondering how he makes them lose it, are the government going to buy it back?

[thetrees]

 

 

 

The health service is certainly in better hands under Labour - they virtually bust our economy with the massive spending on it during their tenure, which is borne out by how long it is taking the present government to bring the deficit down.

That's just so wrong that I can't believe you've read anything about the causes of the financial crash that didn't come out of tory central office or the rags which reprint its press releases, unless you're just on a windup.  Do you really believe that the global financial crisis was the result of the UK government's spending on the HNS or anything else?  Really?

Nope, but I don't wear the left's overuse of the word 'global'

It is clear that our 'shit' was much deeper than any of our Northern European neighbours, and we climbed into that 'shit' during a long period where one very intelligent man ran the economy.

In my opinion that man, and the people in Government with him, let the people of this country down badly. The people most affected were the honest, working people, who don't benefit from good education, and who were duped into spending non-existent equity by banks, credit companies and the like, all of whom were under the watchful eye of a government that was happy to reap the platitudes of running the world's 4th largest economy.

The irony is that the people who have been badly let down are the ones who vote Labour, but then we are all sheep in the world of politics.

 

I disagree re your status of the UK compared the other european countries especially when you look at the context of global economics . I appreciate you are one of the Tory supporters who dislike Labour, but to somehow try and blame the UK Labour party for world issues ironically caused by the same people that this Gvmt especially are bent over backwards (forwards and sidewards) to support - ie major finance - is somewhat wrong. 

 

 

I don't blame 'The Labour Party'. I quite liked red Ed, up until his energy price fixing idiocy anyway. I blame the last Labour Government and Blair and Brown in particular, for happily fiddling while Rome was burning, because it suited them. If the consequences of outrageous lending that was going on in this country were obvious to a fool like me, then I am sure that they were more than aware and could have done something about it long before the 'global' crisis hit.

 

And I am not a Tory supporter, but would quite frankly vote for any party if it keeps Ed Balls out of the Treasury.

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone actually likes them, it's just that some feel that they're more competent than the obvious alternatives.

 

Labour clearly have many faults but compared to the Tories they are saints.

 

I see the highest priority of Government to look after those most needy and vulnerable in society be it the poorest, the sick, disabled people etc. With that in mind I think it is a given that the NHS would be in safer hands under Labour. The same with state Education. Social care has been decimated under this mob as a result of huge cuts in local Government funding. This has had a massive impact on those most vulnerable amongst us and has put an inevitable extra huge strain onto the NHS. They have tried to brainwash people by taking every opportunity to stigmatise many of the public services  and this has been disgraceful.

 

The Tories used the deficit, a deficit they have hardly made an impact on by the way, to justify making the huge cuts they have made and continue to make in public services. Truth is though they would have made the cuts anyway. They have all been ideological cuts and they have taken great pleasure in making them.

 

I was 17 in 1991 when the Tories last won an election. I have to be honest I had heard plenty of what an evil mob they were but having now witnessed it as an adult I can see why come 2015 they won't have won an election in 24 years. Given the disgraceful, vindictive and shambolic way they have governed this country along with the lap dog lib dems it will be many, many years before they again see power.

I would suggest that the highest priority of Government is to ensure that they get the finances right in order to look after the most vulnerable in our society.

The health service is certainly in better hands under Labour - they virtually bust our economy with the massive spending on it during their tenure, which is borne out by how long it is taking the present government to bring the deficit down.

 

Things can be spun so many different ways but the truth is, we (including me) don't like this Tory government, but we can't afford another Labour government.

You see your phrase shows a lot of what makes people with social conscience not want to vote Tory. The highest priority is finances? Using the disbandment of the  NHS as some sort of argument for cuts and justification for improving the wealth of, lets be honest a very small majority is somewhat of a sick policy IMO

You are placing a deliberate misinterpretation on my 'highest priority'. If I want to feed, clothe and generally care for my family, then my priority is to ensure that I go out and earn some money in order to do so. What money I earn then dictates what I can do with it.

A government is exactly the same, and if they don't have the money, they can't spend it, so the priority must be to first get the finance in place, and then spend it appropriately.

I also don't recall ever calling for the disbandment of the NHS, because that is the last thing that I would do.

 

For some reason people seem to be under the impression our currency is in short supply, It isn't it's just controlled and rationed by a few with the power of control of it for thier own gain. How can it be in finite and scarce when it is created out of thin air with the typing of some digits on a computer screen with amazing regularity? Unfortunately this strange arrangement where private corporations can create vast amounts of currency out of nothing has gone on for so long people no longer question it's validity or see the dilemma and questions it should raise. How it devalues the wealth and currency created by real physical time consuming work and hence makes everyone poorer whilst making those with the power infinitely richer. If you believe a Government (a legal fiction) is exactly the same as a human being (a flesh and blood biological entity). I guess it explains how you can't see the difference between real money (which can be finite and in short supply) and the counterfeit currency we currently use.

[snowychap]

The health service is certainly in better hands under Labour - they virtually bust our economy with the massive spending on it during their tenure, which is borne out by how long it is taking the present government to bring the deficit down.

How on earth is it 'borne out', precisely?

[tonyh29]

Re The myth on cuts

Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election

He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied

The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less

And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up

Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list

[tonyh29]

No way is it a run up to an election. If it had been, Ed would have announced his government would ban death and a windfall tax so that everyone could have free tickets to see 1 direction

- loving the desperation now - So Gideon's announcements pre the last election were based on commitments and promises? What about Clegg's - easier to count on 1 finger the number that he meant. I notice you fail to mention the other parties, anyone for a "ahhh bit L......" ?

Whoosh .....

That was colhints humour going over your head

[snowychap]

I quite liked red Ed, up until his energy price fixing idiocy anyway.

Whilst what he said may well have been crassly populistic (i.e. 'freezing prices'), I'm not sure why a return to the early (loose) price controls of Ofgem after market deregulation would be any worse than the situation we find ourselves in now.

I'm not sure that anyone (other than the big cheeses and the heavy investors in BG, SSE, npower (RWE), EDF, &c.) actually believes the energy 'market' (such that it laughably is) works well. The real trouble with it is that things get discussed in terms of the retail price not following the 'wholesale price' (what on earth that's supposed to be? That's mainly what drives the balancing costs, surely?) and now 'lights going out ' (if you don't allow us to continue to make the profits to which we've become accustomed - where are the headlines about holding the country to ransom now?).

The last people that I would trust (and they're even deeper down in the cesspit of mistrust than politicians) when talking about the energy 'market' are the cartel of firms who have divvied up the UK marketplace.

Edit: Spelling and stuff.

Edited September 26, 2013 by snowychap

[bickster]

Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Mandelson has been evil since he first crawled out of the dark and mystical boglands of ancient Europe.

[drat01]

Re The myth on cuts

Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election

He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied

The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less

And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up

Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list

Wrong on so many counts Tony

 

So the fact that the manifesto talks about them can be discounted? 

Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there

Hush you heretic 

[villaajax]

No way is it a run up to an election. If it had been,  Ed would have announced his government would ban death and a windfall tax so that everyone could have free tickets to see 1 direction

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5TglKB000I

[tonyh29]

Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there

I thought a lot of the utility companies were privatised by the " ahhh but " party ?

[blandy]

Labour didn't cause the global recession. Clearly. They did, as did the tories before them, do the same things that caused recessions elesewhere - fail to regulate enough. They weren't the cause, they were, along with the tories, and recieved political western orthodoxy, in paert to blame.

 

When they were hoofed out, the econonmy was growing, and the debt was less than the one they inherited from the tories.

 

The acts of the current gov't have hampered recovery. The recovery is despite, instead of because of....

 

As for the NHS, and PPI and so on, Labour started it, the tories have massively extended it. The NHS should not be left in a condition of unchanging circumstances It could be a heck of a lot better. There are endemic problems. But the solutions are lost in arguments about who what and where. There are countries with better health services, which are in effect privately run, yet available to all. Ours is not the best, not an example to the world being ruined (just) by tory cuts, or privatisation. The argument is mad.

 

What matters is how good it is, not how it is structured or paid for, other than ensuring it is available to all. It shouldn't be run for profit, UNLESS, there is absolute evidence that would bering about a better service. It shouldn't be run for ever in the way it is or was, just because of nostalgia. There's an appalling culture of complacency and management irresponsibility within parts of it. Other parts are brilliant. They're the ones where people, not ideology come first. And they're the best resourced ones.

 

Privatisation doesn't make nurses ignore patients, or doctors mis-diagnose and then cover up. It doesn't make people racist, ageist or uncaring. Those are the things that need sorting out the most.

[villaajax]

 

Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there

I thought a lot of the utility companies were privatised by the " ahhh but " party ?

 

 

Is that the Tony Party?