Premier League Spurs - Arry's gone but we still dislike them...

[SimplySpurfect]

I think it comes down to injuries and nothing more than that, they are missing their one out and out goal scorer and they have problems at CB with Woodgate as good as fininished, King (aka the new McGrath) incapable of playing the number of games they need from him and then there is the injury to Dawson.

I'm sure Spurs form will improve but soon the demands of CL football will hit home.

Yeah, Spurs haven't had much luck with injuries so far this season. Carrying on from the latter half of last season in that respect.

Losing the quality of Gomes, Dawson, King, Woodgate, Gallas, Kaboul, Corluka, Bentley, Modric and Defoe in such a short space of time is enough to derail any team's performance.

The other problem is that several key players last season have yet to find the same kind of form. Palacios, Corluka, Lennon and Kranjcar and in particular have been shadows of their usual selves. Although the latter two haven't had too much match practice since recovering from serious, long term injuries.

So all in all, it has been a pretty grim start to the season, especially in comparison to last season's start of 5 wins in 5 and goals galore.

There are a couple of shining lights though. Bale has continued his form from the second half of last season, and continues to show that he absolutely has to be played as an attacking midfielder rather than a left back.

Van der Vaart has looked brilliant in every appearance so far, despite clearly being nowhere near match fit.

Sandro's second half performance against Arsenal is going to give Palacios some serious concerns pretty soon, in my opinion.

And Jenas is absolutely excelling in a five man midfield. One of the best players on the pitch in each outing so far, and I can't believe it myself. He may finally have found a system to realise that much talked about potential of his.

[SimplySpurfect]

In my opinion, based on the players that are currently at the club that still have the ability to walk, that is Spurs' strongest team.

You could substitute King for Bassong, Gallas for Dawson, Kaboul for Corluka, Sandro, Palacios or Jenas for Huddlestone, Kranjcar for Bale, Bentley for Lennon and Crouch for Defoe where needed without it being too detrimental to the performance.

So when those players finally return from injury, we may finally see Spurs click into form again.

[villa4europe]

The weakest link in your team is the one with no back up, ekotto is rubbish IMO

Yes bale can play there but why would you want to when he's been so good further up the pitch

[jonno_2004]

Two luxury players in Modric and VDV, fitting them both into the same team leaves you weak defensively IMO.

[TrentVilla]

In my opinion, based on the players that are currently at the club that still have the ability to walk, that is Spurs' strongest team.

You could substitute King for Bassong, Gallas for Dawson, Kaboul for Corluka, Sandro, Palacios or Jenas for Huddlestone, Kranjcar for Bale, Bentley for Lennon and Crouch for Defoe where needed without it being too detrimental to the performance.

So when those players finally return from injury, we may finally see Spurs click into form again.

I thought Defoe was injured?

[bickster]

He is

[SimplySpurfect]

Assou Ekotto isn't rubbish at all, to be fair. Yeah, he has those occassional heart stopping memory blanks when he forgets that he's actually a footballer, but on the whole he is a very good defender. The problem is, if you don't watch every Spurs game the way that I and a lot of other Spurs fans do, then the majority of the time he'll be sign on highlight shows like Match of the Day is for one of those mistakes.

I've talked about this before. But against Man City, Stoke and the home Young Boys leg he was awesome. And, in fairness, very few goals have ever come from any of his slip ups really.

Modric and Huddlestone played in the centre of a 4-4-2 at the end of last season and were absolutely fantastic together. And that was in matches against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City. You don't have to have a tough tackling hussler in the centre for a midfield to be successful. Besides, whilst none of them are Roy Keane or Patrick Vieira, all of Huddlestone, Modric and Van der Vaart are always willing to get stuck into tackles. Plus, I did say they could be rotated for Palacios or Sandro as needed.

Yeah, Defoe is out, so are Gomes, King and Gallas. I mentioned at the bottom of the post about when they all return to fitness, that'll be the strongest XI.

[TrentVilla]

Assou Ekotto isn't rubbish at all, to be fair. Yeah, he has those occassional heart stopping memory blanks when he forgets that he's actually a footballer, but on the whole he is a very good defender. The problem is, if you don't watch every Spurs game the way that I and a lot of other Spurs fans do, then the majority of the time he'll be sign on highlight shows like Match of the Day is for one of those mistakes. [/quote[

I don't think he is rubbish at all, as for forgetting he is a footballer perhaps its down to the fact he isn't all that arsed about playing the game by his own admission.

I agree with you though about football fans in general having ill advised views on other teams players based on highlights and the odd game they watch, I think fans of all clubs are guilty of that at times.

That said I think fans can be just as guilty of over rating their own players at times, thats football for you.

I took a look at a Spurs forum the other day and was surprised to see a lot of critism of Redknapp, what is your stance on that?

[SimplySpurfect]

Out of curiosity, which Spurs forum was it? I just ask because the "open" forums such as Glory Glory and Spurs Odyssey are really poor forums full of stupidity. It's basically the majority of people that give Spurs fans a bad rep. I highly recommend, if you do genuinely have an interest in real Spurs fans, take the minute to register at Spurs Community, which is by far the best and most intelligent Spurs forum on the net. joey55 is a member on there. Coincidentally, GlastonSpur isn't.

Onto Redknapp. I do think he's getting a bit of unjust criticism from people with short memories. I don't really see much he could've done to improve the performance of the team so far this season. The vast majority of changes he has made have been forced due to injuries, rather than tactical reasons.

The team got outplayed against Arsenal in the cup, and he has been chastised for making so many changes to the team. But the people complaining about the changes to the game were the same people who were saying that they wanted to see the youth and fringe players compete in the Carling Cup, in the same way that Arsenal do. But once the draw was announced, they all wanted Spurs to field a full strength team, just because it's against Arsenal.

He made the right decision to play the players that he did. And it's no surprise they got so outplayed, Spurs' line up featured three debutants, two young players that have played about 60 minutes worth of Spurs games between them as well as Giovani and Pavlyuchenko, who haven't made much impact thus far this season.

Redknapp has done great things for this club in the 18 months he's been here. Those fans need to remember the quality of football his team played when they were actually able to field a consistent team.

[TrentVilla]

Out of curiosity, which Spurs forum was it? I just ask because the "open" forums such as Glory Glory and Spurs Odyssey are really poor forums full of stupidity. It's basically the majority of people that give Spurs fans a bad rep. I highly recommend, if you do genuinely have an interest in real Spurs fans, take the minute to register at Spurs Community, which is by far the best and most intelligent Spurs forum on the net. joey55 is a member on there. Coincidentally, GlastonSpur isn't.

Odd that

I don't know which forum it was to be honest I can't recall.

I'm always happy to talk football with real football fans so long as their of sound mind that is why I'm pleased away fans are welcome on here even if its true of some more than others.

Onto Redknapp. I do think he's getting a bit of unjust criticism from people with short memories. I don't really see much he could've done to improve the performance of the team so far this season. The vast majority of changes he has made have been forced due to injuries, rather than tactical reasons.

The team got outplayed against Arsenal in the cup, and he has been chastised for making so many changes to the team. But the people complaining about the changes to the game were the same people who were saying that they wanted to see the youth and fringe players compete in the Carling Cup, in the same way that Arsenal do. But once the draw was announced, they all wanted Spurs to field a full strength team, just because it's against Arsenal.

He made the right decision to play the players that he did. And it's no surprise they got so outplayed, Spurs' line up featured three debutants, two young players that have played about 60 minutes worth of Spurs games between them as well as Giovani and Pavlyuchenko, who haven't made much impact thus far this season.

Redknapp has done great things for this club in the 18 months he's been here. Those fans need to remember the quality of football his team played when they were actually able to field a consistent team.

A fiar and reasoned summary I think, much to agree with.

One area of possible fault could be argued to be the continued reliance on King and to a lesser extent Woodgate in favour of buying more midfielders. Valid?

[JMilnereatsnails]

What's with this Redknapp love in?

I think he's a word removed.

[SimplySpurfect]

That's perfectly valid, to be fair.

The thing with Woodgate and King is, when they're fit, they are Spurs' best centre backs by a considerable margin, which is obviously why the management have been so patient and devoted to them both. And King has been the heart of Spurs for the majority of his career. He is right now the only player to progress right through the academy and into the first team, right at the time Sol Campbell, Spurs' previous player to do that successfully, left for Arsenal. So that will always grant him extra lee-way.

Funnily enough, I was actually thinking about the lack of big defensive signings not too long ago. Spurs have in recent years spent big on players in midfield and attack. Modric, Bentley, Palacios, Crouch, Pavlyuchenko, Berbatov and the re-signings of Keane and Defoe were all signed for big money. But I think Tottenham's most expensive defensive signing of all time is Bassong at £8m.

That is probably something that needs to change next summer at the very latest. It's sad to say, but I'm convinced Woodgate is done. King can't go on for long with his knees the way they are. Gallas is already 33 and has converted to the discipline Spurs centre backs like to adopt by getting himself injured.

Dawson, Kaboul and Bassong are all good centre backs, but each one of them looks better when partnered with a senior, more experienced leader next to them. And Kyle Walker and Steven Caulker are fantastic prospects at the moment, but they're nowhere near first team level yet.

So a big name defender is certainly required in the next 12 months, in my opinion.

[SimplySpurfect]

What's with this Redknapp love in?

I think he's a word removed.

You don't have to like someone to appreciate the work they've done. I'm not exactly a fan of Ferguson or Wenger's character but that doesn't stop me having massive respect for what they've achieved in their careers.

[OutByEaster?]

Hasn't Corluka played at centre half in the past?

[TrentVilla]

What's with this Redknapp love in?

I think he's a word removed.

I guess that is directed at me.

You would be hard pushed to find someone who dislikes Redknapp more than me, I can't stand him and haven't been able to stand him since he was at West Ham. That is the man.

It would be though churlish and disingenuous to say he is anything other than a very good manager.

[TrentVilla]

But I think Tottenham's most expensive defensive signing of all time is Bassong at £8m.

I could be wrong but I believe you paid £8.3m for Dean Richards from Wolves.

[SoccerHQ]

Losing the quality of Gomes, Dawson, King, Woodgate, Gallas, Kaboul, Corluka, Bentley, Modric and Defoe in such a short space of time is enough to derail any team's performance.

Well judging by his performance against Arsenal, Bentley wouldn't be much use for Spurs's youth team.

Dawson, Gomes and Defoe are big misses. I do find it strange that you're bemoaning Woodgate, King and Gallas being injured.

Woodgate's on the verge of retiring, King obviously can't play every 3 days and Gallas was very injury prone at Arsenal so not sure why you're surprised they're all injured.

Few Spurs fans I know think the main problem is they don't have a striker who really excels playing as a lone striker. Both Crouch and Pav can both do it up to a point but neither are Torres or Drogba standard.

[SoccerHQ]

In my opinion, based on the players that are currently at the club that still have the ability to walk, that is Spurs' strongest team.

You could substitute King for Bassong, Gallas for Dawson, Kaboul for Corluka, Sandro, Palacios or Jenas for Huddlestone, Kranjcar for Bale, Bentley for Lennon and Crouch for Defoe where needed without it being too detrimental to the performance.

So when those players finally return from injury, we may finally see Spurs click into form again.

I thought Defoe was injured?

Yeah I'd agree with that team as Palacios and Bassong are decent prem players but neither are champions league standard imo.

One problem with that is I've seen nothing in Defoe's career that suggests he's suddenly going to morph into an effective Drogba type leader of the line, always works much better in a two upfront.

[SimplySpurfect]

Ah, Dean Richards. I remember when signing him was a massive coup for the club. Those were some dark days indeed. IIRC, he was signed for £8.1m from Southampton. We can thank Glenn Hoddle for that one.

Apparently (ie I just found a website saying it) Kaboul was originally signed from Auxerre for £8.2m and Hutton was signed for £9m, making him the most expensive defender.

And yeah, Corluka has played centre back in the past. He played there on Saturday. But I don't think he's ever played well at centre back. Incidentally, he is a rock at centre back on the previous two Football Manager games. Which shows they don't get everything right.

[SimplySpurfect]

Dawson, Gomes and Defoe are big misses. I do find it strange that you're bemoaning Woodgate, King and Gallas being injured.

Woodgate's on the verge of retiring, King obviously can't play every 3 days and Gallas was very injury prone at Arsenal so not sure why you're surprised they're all injured.

I'm not surprised that they're injured. Well, except Gallas, as I can't really say I followed his career too closely at Arsenal, so I have no idea of his previous injury record.

But they are still Spurs players and they are still all injured, so they get put on the list of injured players. It's not so much a big deal missing Woodgate out, but including him in the injury list is the only time I get to type his name anymore.