maxjackle Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I just think in an ideal world a guild would want to take an equal number of each class on a raid. That seems fair to me. Maybe priests do have a hard time, but I know if you go into a random pug most players want a holy priest over a holy paladin atm. Whether its down to ignorance or whatever its a fact. Im not even going into ret -paladins which are one of the worst classes in the game (the only person in our guild who we've ever asked to respec as it was hard taking him on instances). I think we all want balance that we dont get - I blame pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Why should a priest be a better healer in a 5 man than a resto shammy, druid or paladin? We need to be as good healers, or the resto tree isn't a viable option, much like the Elemental tree isn't for raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 If you ask why a priest should be the best healer, why should we then roll the class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted April 2, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2, 2007 Priests should imo be the best healers just as Warriors should be the best tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 If you ask why a priest should be the best healer, why should we then roll the class? Anf if we have to accept being inferior at everything we do for being a hybrid, why would we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 If you ask why a priest should be the best healer, why should we then roll the class? Anf if we have to accept being inferior at everything we do for being a hybrid, why would we? Thats what it comes down to picking a hybrid. You can fill many roles very well, but should never excel over a "pure" class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 The way it is now with hybrid simply outhealing and outperforming Priests, you can compare that to moonkins out dpsing Mages. Imagine the cry out if that happend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 That's not the point of the game though. If you only wanted priests to heal, then Blizz should have stuck to 4 classes, not 8. As it is, it requires just as much skill, gear and time for a shammy to heal as it does a priest. Every class has the ability to focus on different areas. There's no point in me choosing elemental spec for raids, as my DPS is miles behind mages and warlocks. If our healing was way behind priests, why on earth would anybody take a shammy anywhere. If were mediocre at everything and excelled at nothing, there's be no endgame raiding we could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Thats very much the point of the game. Or it was the point of the game. Nobody is saying hybrids shouldnt heal, but they shouldnt be more efficient and simply better healers then priests. Just like Moonkins shouldnt be a better dps option the mages or locks. If it turns to that priests are at the same level of healing abilities like hybrids, why cant we have mail, plate, far better offensive buffs, the ability to go melee, travelform, stealth? Its absolutely pointless beeing a priest atm. Unless you fancy dealing shadow dmg, then again if you want to do that you most likely roll a warlock. Hybrids have always been a backup/supportive healing class with totems, LoH, innervate, crez, loads of abilities supporting your raid. But when you give these classes the same or in fact better efficiancy then priests, along with far higher survivability. Well then you have simply **** the priests over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted April 3, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2007 Thanks for decimating those Harpies for me Tarj! They were getting on my pecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted April 3, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2007 Meh. Priests still make the best healers, for mine. As for "Jack of all trades" - that's simply a fallacy. We have many skills but are forced to focus on only 1 through talents. In order to be viable anywhere (not just raids) we need to be comparable at the area we have focused on - else, what's the point? As for us being better at healing/DPS/tanking - have you ever considered that some players are just better than others? And that they have spent just as much time - if not more - gearing up to be that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 As for "Jack of all trades" - that's simply a fallacy. Actually it isnt. The best guild in the world has a DPS shaman in their raid along with feral druid. The same guild which has 1 priest (for buffs) and 3 paladins (for healing ofc.) You are very viable, especially after TBC launch. And talking gear and so called skills. Afaik ive got the best healing gear in the guild, and ive raided almost everything seen in WoW yet, except Naxx and the current 25 mans, and still i get outhealed by far by paladins with 400 less +heal in plate. Its about efficiancy, regen, not high numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted April 3, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2007 Actually it isnt. The best guild in the world has a DPS shaman in their raid along with feral druid. The same guild which has 1 priest (for buffs) and 3 paladins (for healing ofc.) You are very viable, especially after TBC launch. Is that 1 shaman and 1 druid in a 25 man raid? Or more and just 1 of that spec? And do they have a shaman or a druid for healing? And talking gear and so called skills. Afaik ive got the best healing gear in the guild, and ive raided almost everything seen in WoW yet, except Naxx and the current 25 mans, and still i get outhealed by far by paladins with 400 less +heal in plate. Its about efficiancy, regen, not high numbers. Then it seems holy pallies need a nerf. How that applies to all hybrids is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Thats hybrids in dps spec yes. They have healing ones aswell, so you are apparantly wanted no matter what spec. Lets put it down easy. Paladins: By far the superior healing class. Best buffs, best abilities, best efficiancy, best survivability, low on threat (actually half the threat i cause), LoH, DI. Druids: Probably the most critical abilities like innervate, crez, lifebloom, tree-form, swiftmend, and insane resto tree talents. Best HoTs on the game. Shamans: Might be a bit below the 3 other healing classes, but they are an offensive support class. Still totems rock, good survivability, efficiancy, ankh. Priests: Fort. Divine Spirit. Doesnt stack, so you only need one priest. No auras, no abilities. Has a poor mans HoT. PW:S which doesnt scale, or well it scales on 12% rendering it pointless with the current damage output. And very very un-efficient heals on the only thing which can be debated makes us shine, burst healing. We got AoE which is NEVER needed ever, and one good spell which got nerfed making it useless as an emergency button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Shamans: Might be a bit below the 3 other healing classes, but they are an offensive support class. Still totems rock, good survivability, efficiancy, ankh. Haha, you know NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjackle Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Well i haven't heard any hint that holy paladins will be changed, just that thare looking to change our ret tree, which is never used out of pvp. We havent been buffed post tbc, just that for the first time plus healing plate has become readily available. We'll have to disagree on your thoughts on hybrids TRL, I think specced healer classes should be equal. Priests can either heal or dps, paladins can tank or heal. Perhaps holy priests can be buffed a little, but I dont think any class has a right to be the absolute best at something or endgame would become very boring indeed. This is the same whine that warriors had about tanking, and the druid changes just were a pain in the ass for me. It meant getting a good tank became that bit harder. Same for healers if they nerf paladins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 but I dont think any class has a right to be the absolute best at something Fair enough. Make druids and warriors equal at tanking. Make priests, mages, locks, moonkins, elementals all equal. Make rogues, ferals, enhancement, ret, all equal. While you are at this, give priests the surviviability and buffs of other classes. In fact make us be able to deal melee damage. And at the same time drop the entire concept on mmorpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 And yet thousands of people playing priests just get on with the game and do the job quite nicely without any whinging or whining whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 What a pointless addition to the discussion. Then again i guess thats what you say when you dont have anything to contribute with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted April 3, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2007 Now now, no need to get petty. I think every class has it's problems but for the most part I agree with you, TRL: Priests should be the best healers, Warriors should be the best tanks and Rogues should be the best melee DPS. After all, that is the very reason you would have rolled that class. That said, I think hybrids that spec a certain way should be viable replacements for those classes. If not, then your 5 mans would consist of only "pure" classes and your raids would only have 1 of them along for buffs. If that is the only reason to bring them, then have them stand at the door. They can buff, then be dropped from the raid for the "better" pure classes. As for buffing and nerfing - it will happen on an ongoing basis as needed. Till then, you just have to plow on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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