Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Olympiakos

[tinker]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I was looking at the things, we wasn't doing right, that had a major bearing on the result.....I am referring to our general play.

There were other things like: 

• Dougies unnecessary penalty gift
• Bailey's penalty refusal
• Dougies Penalty miss
• Lenglets stupid and unnecessary shirt pull( as innocuous as it was)

all those were goal scoring opportunities, missed.

but our general play, was well below par.....off the ball, we was walking, they in contrast was running........much like the Chelsea collapse.....That alone, give them a huge confidence boost.

I don't know, the true circumstances of our drop off, of form, only suspicions....goal scoring excused, because ironically, we are still, scoring goals......it's the control of the game,  that's gone.

If we want to search for perspective, we need to examine all aspects of the game, not just the juicy bits.....otherwise, we are just fooling ourselves.

 

Good post,  maybe  the amount of games in such a short timescale

[TRO]

2 hours ago, useless said:

If we could have just got one more goal to make it 4-3 rather than 4-2 then I would have thought we would have a good chance, as we showed last night that we're more than capable of causing them problems, us scoring three or four past them in the second-leg really isn't beyond the realms of possibility, the part that's more difficult to conceive of as a possibility is us stopping them from scoring, we're not withoug hope but it's going to be difficult, going to have to have a perfect game, defence and keeper not allowing anything past them, midfield controlling the game better to relieve pressure on defence, and the attack to take their chances

What has kept our season buoyant, is having the ability to score goals, (but how much man power do we deploy to that?)......you simply cannot operate at a walking pass without the ball, and expect to cause teams problems....Unai has a lot of work to do on that.

Your analytics is right, its ok looking at our ability to score over there, be how can we be sure, we won't ship more.......I guess the odds are not with us.

We rely so heavily on Emi saving, would be goals, that the defensive capability, has been somewhat overlooked in some quarters......We have also, been able to score freely in games, which has also got us over the line, and masked over other issues, like defending( as a team)

Control, which is Unai's baby.....and mine fwiw......has been missing lately. I am not going in to why, because there are so many plausible reasons, not just one.

The depleted squad, due to injuries, is undoubtedly the major factor, and it is pushing us over the edge. It's not excuses, there comes a time, when it's simply too much to bear.

Some of the players, are having to carry the rest, too much.

 

 

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

Good post,  maybe  the amount of games in such a short timescale

To be fair, I think there are many things to examine, in the fullness of time.

My saving grace, is, We have a manager who can see it.....He knows. That does not mean, he can fix it, in the here and now.

as an example.....You may be able to visualize, how a garden should look, but if you haven't got the tools to do it......you can't.

I think some of these games, where we have fell short of our usual standards, It will help Unai formulate a plan for the summer.

[imavillan]

I've just seen this fantastic news come up on my timeline.

Brilliant news 

 

 

[tinker]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

To be fair, I think there are many things to examine, in the fullness of time.

My saving grace, is, We have a manager who can see it.....He knows. That does not mean, he can fix it, in the here and now.

as an example.....You may be able to visualize, how a garden should look, but if you haven't got the tools to do it......you can't.

I think some of these games, where we have fell short of our usual standards, It will help Unai formulate a plan for the summer.

Just hope he has the finance to do it with FFP limits, I'm sure he has a list of players though, especially if we're in the CL.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, tinker said:

Just hope he has the finance to do it with FFP limits, I'm sure he has a list of players though, especially if we're in the CL.

I think its more to do with the right kind/type of players, not just the transfer fee's.

Some very effective players can be sought, for modest fee's.

We see some of these european teams, players, giving us a hard time, who have not cost huge fee's.....Monchi is also prudent at that, as we have seen with Morgan Rogers.

It's about getting the balance right, and not playing attack minded players in defensive roles, and vice versa.....horses for courses.

It's more about getting the balance of the team right, than just filling it with expensive stars.

 

Edited May 3 by TRO

[ferguson1]

8 minutes ago, imavillan said:

I've just seen this fantastic news come up on my timeline.

Brilliant news 

 

 

Absolutely fantastic news. Hope he makes a speedy recovery. Some things are far more important than football. UTV

[tinker]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think its more to do with the right kind/type of players, not just the transfer fee's.

Some very effective players can be sought, for modest fee's.

We see some of these european teams, players, giving us a hard time, who have not cost huge fee's.....Monchi is also prudent at that, as we have seen with Morgan Rogers.

It's about getting the balance right, and not playing attack minded players in defensive roles, and vice versa.....horses for courses.

It's more about getting the balance of the team right, than just filling it with expensive stars.

 

It's been evident in the last few games that we are low on energy,  I think this is a major factor tbh with the closing down of players and competing.

We need another Kamara, a player who is good out of possession and can put his foot in. Tim's development isn't going to match ours. The players we are up against in Europe are well rested and have time to looks at how to play us and drill this into the players.

The problem with having loads of games isn't just physical fatigue it's mental, players having to adapt to different teams in such a short space of time, Emery will have a studied them but he won't have the time to install what he has learned into the players so that it became habitual and in the heat of game its that instinctive reaction that's needed,  follow that runner , fill that space, turn him to the left.

What I will say is Olympiacos keeper didn't seem that confident and we should have shot more and followed those shots in. They also looked nervous on corners,  we have a chance.

 

[TRO]

13 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

Putting it on Olsen is an excuse for me offcourse his no Martinez. We still concede with Emi every match, hardly ever a clean sheet, so that tells you the defence and midfield is an issue. School boy mistakes and errors since the turn of the year has cost us goals and never has been rectified. Emery was asked yesterday if your worried about conceding so much and his response was aslong as we score more don't agree with that response. McGinn and Luiz go missing too much in midfield, and without Youri stands out more. Lack of leadership out there tonight to someone to take the grasp of that game.

I don't agree with it either, but I think it was a diplomatic response.....He is not going to throw players under the bus....or moan about, what he can't affect.

My view is this.......Sure injuries have hit us hard, in the defensive area's......but we haven't got enough quantity or quality of players to begin with, with defensive nous. I think that is a WIP issue.

They are a rare species at Villa, these days.....Quality defenders.

I do not believe Unai, is happy with our goals against column......but I do believe, he hasn't got enough players available with the necessary skill set, to do much about it.

Unai, will never moan, for moans sake.....If he can't fix it, right now....He won't talk about it. It's a kind of, I will only talk about what I can fix.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

It's been evident in the last few games that we are low on energy,  I think this is a major factor tbh with the closing down of players and competing.

We need another Kamara, a player who is good out of possession and can put his foot in. Tim's development isn't going to match ours. The players we are up against in Europe are well rested and have time to looks at how to play us and drill this into the players.

The problem with having loads of games isn't just physical fatigue it's mental, players having to adapt to different teams in such a short space of time, Emery will have a studied them but he won't have the time to install what he has learned into the players so that it became habitual and in the heat of game its that instinctive reaction that's needed,  follow that runner , fill that space, turn him to the left.

What I will say is Olympiacos keeper didn't seem that confident and we should have shot more and followed those shots in. They also looked nervous on corners,  we have a chance.

 

There was an incident last night....just picking out one, as an example, where Lucas Digne, having been alongside an attacking player, just allowed him to run towards our goal, without tracking him....Alan Hutton picked up on it too.....Its passive and puny.

This is not digging out, Lucas Digne, who I happen to like......its just not good enough.

To only have Kamara, in a squad of 25....is just not good enough. I hope we address it.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, useless said:

John McGinn made a great point, we can come back from two goals down against them, as we showed in last night's game, we did in the space of around twenty minutes, in the second-leg we will have a whole ninety minutes to do it, we just havet to avoid giving away silly goals, with Martinez in goal maybe we will have a chance

That is the Elephant in the room.....I hope he treads on someone's foot, when the window opens.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Honestly, this was one of the best attacking performances I can remember in a while. Shame it had to come alongside one of the worst defensive ones. If we have top 4 wrapped up this weekend, I hope we rest players then go all out next Thursday. Leave it all out there.

Attacking, simply isn't an issue.....we should all be aware of that, by now.

[tinker]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

There was an incident last night....just picking out one, as an example, where Lucas Digne, having been alongside an attacking player, just allowed him to run towards our goal, without tracking him....Alan Hutton picked up on it too.....Its passive and puny.

This is not digging out, Lucas Digne, who I happen to like......its just not good enough.

To only have Kamara, in a squad of 25....is just not good enough. I hope we address it.

 

But that tracking,  or lack of it, maybe down to fatigue. We have a top 4 squad that cost pennies in real terms. To be honest there was plenty of instances where we never tracked , the first goal had Dignes running back while Lenglet just stood there flat footed after failing to pick up on a lose ball, undee pressure, from Rogers.

[delboy54]

Mr TRO as always makes good comments.

The walking pace even losing 2 - 4 with 15 mins to go, where is the urgency?

I think a lot of the reactions on here of blaming players for this or that mistake is sometimes a bit unfair. The team appear to be running on empty and for all of them playing European games is a new experience that they will learn from.

But I think the main issue for the negative reaction is that we have been starved of success and good times for so long now, when a rare potential chance of a final and maybe even winning it comes along and we trip over ourselves in the 1st leg, of course we are all disappointed. We are at halftime in this tie there is still time. Get an early goal and watertight the defence and we have a chance.

Come on guys Dougie never meant to miss the penalty - he was trying to focus on the penalty despite the shithousery going on behind him - I guess karma from the Lille game....

[TRO]

1 minute ago, tinker said:

But that tracking,  or lack of it, maybe down to fatigue. We have a top 4 squad that cost pennies in real terms. To be honest there was plenty of instances where we never tracked , the first goal had Dignes running back while Lenglet just stood there flat footed after failing to pick up on a lose ball, undee pressure, from Rogers.

I agree, it's not just him.

then maybe our expectations, should mirror that.

We have already superseded my predicted finish of 6th.....and secured European football, which is magnifique.

[delboy54]

3 minutes ago, tinker said:

But that tracking,  or lack of it, maybe down to fatigue. We have a top 4 squad that cost pennies in real terms. To be honest there was plenty of instances where we never tracked , the first goal had Dignes running back while Lenglet just stood there flat footed after failing to pick up on a lose ball, undee pressure, from Rogers.

Yeah our defence seem tired, more and more teams are playing the ball over the top of the defence and running through to try a beat the offside trap - and a lot of teams are trying that now.

 

[tinker]

1 minute ago, delboy54 said:

Yeah our defence seem tired, more and more teams are playing the ball over the top of the defence and running through to try a beat the offside trap - and a lot of teams are trying that now.

 

The first goal was exactly that, Cash was slow to push up and Lenglet Left his player to try and pick Roger's tackle /pass up, he never and they was in behind us.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Yeah our defence seem tired, more and more teams are playing the ball over the top of the defence and running through to try a beat the offside trap - and a lot of teams are trying that now.

 

so we need midfield runners, and CB's who can kill aerial balls and play headers in to the midfield.

I still think we have too many players, with similar attributes....good players, but too samey.....We need some weapons i.e players with diverse skill sets.

[sheepyvillian]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree, it's not just him.

then maybe our expectations, should mirror that.

We have already superseded my predicted finish of 6th.....and secured European football, which is magnifique.

I thought Lenglet could have done more when he conceded the corner which led to the penalty. If he had reacted quicker, he could have cleared his lines or, even put it out for a throw - in. You have to sense danger sometimes, and then, snuff it out before it becomes a bigger problem than if should have. 

Edited May 3 by sheepyvillian

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

It's been an undoubtedly brilliant season and the manager and the players have been outstanding.....but that is over 10 months and there has been some differences in form,during that time,  for a variety of reasons. Folk will have their own opinions why the goals against seem to have increased.

The future is extremely bright......but this thread is about the game.

I would suspect the rate we ship goals and the manner of them , will feature heavily in the managers thinking during the recruitment period.

I have to say, sadly....it was no surprise to me, because I have seen these traits, that led to their goals in previous games, lately. I have my opinions on it, which are observations, not criticisms, and I suspect other fans will have theirs.

We will all have our theories, why the sudden, shipping of goals.....The manager looked apoplectic, at times, with some of the players, so he was clearly not happy with things.....it's been a tough old season, and some look battle weary, having to carry the fight.

I agree with your underlying point on us conceding too many goals - I think to a large extent recently that's been about us having lost a big chunk of our central midfield - we're pretty much a 4-2-4 now by necessity. We started the season one light in that second line of midfielders with just Kamara, Luiz and McGinn and having lost Kamara we're susceptible to teams getting at us - we've got lots of attacking midfield players (Rogers, Ramsey, Zaniolo, Bailey, Tielemans, Diaby) but we're definitely short in the middle which has lead to us having less control of games and less protection for the back line at times.

For last night though, Olympiacos had five shots on target and scored four goals. One of those was a penalty that isn't always given, one took a huge deflection and one might well have been offside - I think in terms of the way in which we have been conceding goals, last night was pretty unique, an outlier in terms of our recent play - the one 'normal' goal they scored was exactly the type we've conceded more of - but the others were to some extent the result of a lot of luck - the result was something of a freak one.

With Kamara likely to miss the start of next season and Iroegbunam not considered ready for starts, I think we'll need to look at midfield for strengthening - for the moment, I don't think we have any alternative but to limp on and try to outscore teams - I don't think it's plan A, and for someone who likes to control games with possession and positioning like Unai Emery does, it must be incredibly frustrating, but it's all we've got with the bodies we have left.