Peter Griffin Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I'm disagreeing that you can define "better" In 19/20 Newcastle earned more money for TV appearances than 5 teams that finished above them There is always going to be some teams that earn more or less in TV money than teams that finish above / below them. There are many factors that influence this. The big clubs often get a game on TV against a lesser team which benefits the lesser team, also the lesser teams can be involved in a relegation dogfight and some relegation games will command a big TV audience. Also, Covid hit the PL that season and the full schedule was disrupted. None of this changes the revenue model of the PL and how TV broadcasting companies generate revenue after paying the PL. Sky and the other broadcasters will televise the games which give them the greatest commercial return while maintaining a view of the full Premiership 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 So you disagree that sky have a (minor) influence over ensuring that teams they deem to be "big" get paid more money? And that that is fair? Forget comparing Liverpool to Norwich, compare us or Everton or wolves or Leicester to spurs and arsenal We have a system where those 2 clubs can spend more in a transfer window than we can because sky say so - and again that is why it is unfair and a shit system - there's a rule where they restrict spending based on revenue and then disparity in the money, in my opinion you can't have both Arsenal get £5m to 10m a year more than us because sky say they are bigger than us... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Arsenal get £5m to 10m a year more than us because sky say they are bigger than us... I don't think it's that. Sky just simply won't to maximise their return on the investment. They will simply look at the viewing figures. More people are interested in watching Arsenal then Villa. More viewers equals more advertising revenue for Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: I don't think it's that. Sky just simply won't to maximise their return on the investment. They will simply look at the viewing figures. More people are interested in watching Arsenal then Villa. More viewers equals more advertising revenue for Sky. But then how do you break that cycle? Arsenal are on TV more than us because they are bigger than us Arsenal get more TV revenue and sponsorship because they are bigger than us Arsenal are bigger than us because they have more money to spend than us You either look to balance out the money arsenal receive to make it fairer or you let us spend more money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: But then how do you break that cycle? Arsenal are on TV more than us because they are bigger than us Arsenal get more TV revenue and sponsorship because they are bigger than us Arsenal are bigger than us because they have more money to spend than us You either look to balance out the money arsenal receive to make it fairer or you let us spend more money Yes, it is a vicious circle. I am just saying that I understand why Sky are showing more Arsenal games than ours. Makes perfect business sense for Sky. I don't make a judgement if that fact should entitle Arsenal to receive more money from Sky or not. You could argue that it would be fair, if we talk about any other type of business. Should it be different for football? Edited October 3, 2021 by Czarnikjak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: Yes, it is a vicious circle. I am just saying that I understand why Sky are showing more Arsenal games than ours. Makes perfect business sense for Sky. I don't make a judgement if that fact should entitle Arsenal to receive more money from Sky or not. People understanding and accepting it is part of the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: People understanding and accepting it is part of the problem. Lol, sky are privetly owned business that pays billions of pounds for the privilege of showing Premier League games. Why shouldn't they be entitled to maximise return on their investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: Lol, sky are privetly owned business that pays billions of pounds for the privilege of showing Premier League games. Why shouldn't they be entitled to maximise return on their investment? But don't you see the long term problem that eventually the bottom of the pyramid collapses and the all the brainwashed supporter's of whoever just give in and support the few that screwed it all up. Thanks for the lol, I don't need any help to look stupid, that I can manage on my own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: But don't you see the long term problem that eventually the bottom of the pyramid collapses and the all the brainwashed supporter's of whoever just give in and support the few that screwed it all up. Thanks for the lol, I don't need any help to look stupid, that I can manage on my own Apologies for the LOL, couldn't help myself. If you are concerned about health of the pyramid you are barking at the wrong tree. It's not SKy who decides how the money is distributed. They just pay the money to Premier League and they decide who gets how much. Premier League could scrap the "facility" fee and redistribute more money to lower divisions if they wanted to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Czarnikjak said: Apologies for the LOL, couldn't help myself. If you are concerned about health of the pyramid you are barking at the wrong tree. It's not SKy who decides how the money is distributed. They just pay the money to Premier League and they decide who gets how much. Premier League could scrap the "facility" fee and redistribute more money to lower divisions if they wanted to. No probs. But as others have said above Sky are actively helping to keep the scum6 where they are, completely understand they're a business and bottom line is everything IN BUSINESS but this is sport and money is destroying it, thats debatable, just my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: So you disagree that sky have a (minor) influence over ensuring that teams they deem to be "big" get paid more money? And that that is fair? Yes it is fair. The teams that are able to command the bigger TV audiences are the teams that deserve the greater share of the money. It is basic advertising. In the good old days pre internet, the newspapers with the greater circulation could charge the highest prices for advertising. It is exactly the same principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Phil Silvers said: People understanding and accepting it is part of the problem. How is it a problem if a club that is well managed and invests a lot into their infrastructure and development earns more money than a club that isn't as well managed and doesn't invest as much into their infrastructure and development. Should we reduce our revenue and give a big portion of it to Championship clubs? Would that be fair to Villa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Phil Silvers said: But don't you see the long term problem that eventually the bottom of the pyramid collapses and the all the brainwashed supporter's of whoever just give in and support the few that screwed it all up. Thanks for the lol, I don't need any help to look stupid, that I can manage on my own Where is the bottom of the pyramid, is that the bottom of the PL or the bottom of L2? Where do we draw the line as to how far down the money should flow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 You're advocating for how they've created this mythical big 6 and why no one will crack it We can not compete with spurs and arsenal because of shit like this, neither can the likes of Everton or Leicester, we might be able to finish above them for a few years but we will never catch them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Where is the bottom of the pyramid, is that the bottom of the PL or the bottom of L2? Where do we draw the line as to how far down the money should flow? 20 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: How is it a problem if a club that is well managed and invests a lot into their infrastructure and development earns more money than a club that isn't as well managed and doesn't invest as much into their infrastructure and development. Should we reduce our revenue and give a big portion of it to Championship clubs? Would that be fair to Villa? The pyramid is too complex to draw a line anywhere. Re you're 2nd post, sorry I don't quite get your point Peter, but reading through your 1st line, what came to mind was that IMO we are a better run club then Arsenal at the moment but they are receiving extra help from sky who are peddling their product and brain washing all but hardcore club supporters into supporting football, not Aston Villa say. edit, another way of looking at how successful sky are at this, if our game was at 4.30 today, there a plenty of people on this VT that would tune in to watching a potentially better game at pool v city instead of watching their own club. Edited October 3, 2021 by Phil Silvers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Phil Silvers said: Re you're 2nd post, sorry I don't quite get your point Peter, but reading through your 1st line, what came to mind was that IMO we are a better run club then Arsenal at the moment but they are receiving extra help from sky who are peddling their product and brain washing all but hardcore club supporters into supporting football, not Aston Villa say. I agree we are better than Arsenal at the moment but the general public do not judge football teams based on the last couple of games. Arsenal build their very strong brand with about 25 consecutive years of Champions League football so they have a lot of credit in the tank. We have done naff all in the last decade and spend a number of years in a lower division. Even if we are playing better football than Arsenal now they are still a bigger draw than we are. We just need to keep doing what we are doing and build our brand and turn Villa into a team that broadcasters want to televise. This will take time but I do believe we have the right people in the right positions at the club to make it so. I can't think of a club that has more opportunity than us to get into the 'elite' group of clubs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I agree we are better than Arsenal at the moment but the general public do not judge football teams based on the last couple of games. Arsenal build their very strong brand with about 25 consecutive years of Champions League football so they have a lot of credit in the tank. We have done naff all in the last decade and spend a number of years in a lower division. Even if we are playing better football than Arsenal now they are still a bigger draw than we are. We just need to keep doing what we are doing and build our brand and turn Villa into a team that broadcasters want to televise. This will take time but I do believe we have the right people in the right positions at the club to make it so. I can't think of a club that has more opportunity than us to get into the 'elite' group of clubs. Well said I get all that but I come back to my point up the page a bit that people are too willing to accept their lot and be happy with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Just now, Phil Silvers said: Well said I get all that but I come back to my point up the page a bit that people are too willing to accept their lot and be happy with it. I think quite a few clubs are happy to be participants in the PL and just collect a few quid each year and be a yoyo team. Norwich, Burnley, Toon, Watford, Saints etc etc have no ambition to try and compete at the top. Leicester, Spurs, Everton, Villa and Hammers are the only sides that I think are showing anything like trying to compete at the top. And I am being generous including Hammers in that group. I think they are punching above their weight and have been lucky with some of their purchases and having Rice. I expect their bubble to burst in the not too distant future 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I think quite a few clubs are happy to be participants in the PL and just collect a few quid each year and be a yoyo team. Norwich, Burnley, Toon, Watford, Saints etc etc have no ambition to try and compete at the top. Leicester, Spurs, Everton, Villa and Hammers are the only sides that I think are showing anything like trying to compete at the top. And I am being generous including Hammers in that group. I think they are punching above their weight and have been lucky with some of their purchases and having Rice. I expect their bubble to burst in the not too distant future Not much more then 20 yrs ago Norwich could go into a season thinking they had a soft chance to win the Premier league and we all know now that they will NEVER win the league again, the games gone. I agree, as a business now, Norwich take their lot and are happy just to be in this league and survive, the games gone, people were in outrage at the prospect of the closed shop ESL but we are already in a closed shop scenario and in the coming years the likes of spurs will be at the bottom of the pyramid they foolishly wanted in to, they will be Norwich in the ESL The ESL will happen, the clubs tried to pull a fast one for a bigger piece of the pie but when it rears its head again, the previously outraged premier league, uefa and the broadcasters will be a part on it. Anyway I've just realised which thread we are in, so better keep schtum before I get told off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Yesterday a new temp ruling was introduced to stop sponsorships from businesses which have links to club owners. It is in place for 1 month with a view to putting a permanent deal in place following that. 18 PL clubs voted for this, Man City abstained and Newcastle voted against. Quelle suprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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