Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

I don’t disagree with any of this but I was commenting on your remark that Gerrard’s “system” had failed and I thought that might be a bit of a premature judgement. The first thing he mentioned about the squad when he arrived was the need to get them to work off the ball better. In his first few matches it looked like the message had got through but he won’t be the first manager trying to change the way his team works who suddenly finds they are reverting to type. Either these players can start regularly working harder and smarter or he will need to bring in replacements who can do it, Whatever, it seems a bit early to write him off as a failure.

Briny, I am totally behind SG.....I was quoting what others had said, blaming systems

I don't think it is the "system" in either Deans Demise or SG's Case......I think its the players and more pointedly the imbalance.

Edited February 18, 2022 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

Effort is not our problem.

Ollie Watkins, John McGinn, Matty Cash... The players really struggling, do they strike you as players that would not 'put it in'?

8 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

I agree.

Luckily we have a squad full of great personalities who will work at whatever they're being told to do.

[jimmygreaves]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

Briny, I am totally behind SG.....I was quoting what others had said, blaming systems

I don't think it is the "system" in either Deans Demise or SG's Case......I think its the players and more pointedly the imbalance.

When Gerrard first came through the door we played a certain way. Defend narrow, push attacks out wide, work hard. It was a clear system, the players understood and it worked. We competed, looked organised and put some points on the board.

That approach has been ripped up to something new. The team is struggling with it, I can't see a discernible game plan the players look like strangers, particularly in their defensive duties.

For me the onus is on the coaching staff to better communicate their intent.

Edited February 18, 2022 by jimmygreaves

[TRO]

3 hours ago, jimmygreaves said:

When Gerrard first came through the door we played a certain way. Defend narrow, push attacks out wide, work hard. It was a clear system, the players understood and it worked. We competed, looked organised and put some points on the board.

That approach has been ripped up to something new. The team is struggling with it, I can't see a discernible game plan the players look like strangers, particularly in their defensive duties.

For me the onus is on the coaching staff to better communicate their intent.

What exactly is the "something new".?.....If that was the case the media, would be all over it.

My understanding is the system is the same as when he first arrived, just some different players in it.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Effort is not our problem.

Ollie Watkins, John McGinn, Matty Cash... The players really struggling, do they strike you as players that would not 'put it in'?

I agree.

Luckily we have a squad full of great personalities who will work at whatever they're being told to do.

I think you need to watch Man City or Leeds.....thats hard work.

We are nowhere near that level of Commitment.....and don't confuse it with Man City's talent.

SG isn't asking for more  "running, tackling and fight"  just for the sake of it.

Edited February 18, 2022 by TRO

[IrishVilla10]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you need to watch Man City or Leeds.....thats hard work.

We are nowhere near that level of Commitment.....and don't confuse it with Man City's talent.

SG isn't asking for more  "running, tackling and fight"  just for the sake of it.

City work like dogs

[TRO]

Just now, IrishVilla10 said:

City work like dogs

The top teams do.....and its something some of our fan base fail to see.

I watched Villa teams of the past, who worked like dogs, because it was trained in to them.

Its been a long time on a consistent basis, where our team was " hard to play against"...I think SG is trying to get that back, but its going to be a hard transition, because, some have had it too easy, for too long....and I don't think SG is going to find it easy to get that, from this group.

 

 

[VillaParkAvenue]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

The top teams do.....and its something some of our fan base fail to see.

I watched Villa teams of the past, who worked like dogs, because it was trained in to them.

Its been a long time on a consistent basis, where our team was " hard to play against"...I think SG is trying to get that back, but its going to be a hard transition, because, some have had it too easy, for too long....and I don't think SG is going to find it easy to get that, from this group.

 

 

Man City work a lot harder than most teams. Pressing is hard work. But they’ve been given orders to play like that, and practice it in training. Gerrard apparently doesn’t want Villa to play with a high press, most teams don’t.

If one Villa player decided to play Man City style, and ran off to press on his own, he’d risk leaving holes in the team and Gerrard might not be happy.

[Tomaszk]

40 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you need to watch Man City or Leeds.....thats hard work.

We are nowhere near that level of Commitment.....and don't confuse it with Man City's talent.

SG isn't asking for more  "running, tackling and fight"  just for the sake of it.

Why would I want to watch a team below us? A team with -19 goal difference. They are crap.

Running for the sake of it, is exactly what Leeds do.

Man City are quite good yes. They have nearly a £40m player in every single position. Twice.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Man City work a lot harder than most teams. Pressing is hard work. But they’ve been given orders to play like that, and practice it in training. Gerrard apparently doesn’t want Villa to play with a high press, most teams don’t.

If one Villa player decided to play Man City style, and ran off to press on his own, he’d risk leaving holes in the team and Gerrard might not be happy.

You simply can't do that, it has to be in groups.....and yes, its called training.....They send over raiding parties as oppose to a renegade player, who just happens to have fire in his belly.....but you can'y get it in 3 months.

Klopp is scripted as an exponent of Gegen Pressing another new word derived from the 90's.....but this was done years ago, just called a high press, great when you win the ball, when you don't its not so clever.

Jack Charlton used it before Klopp in the Ireland team.....all these fancy seemingly sophisticated terminology has been done before, branded under a new name to suggest its new.

The game is c 150 years old....nothing is new in terms of how its played....e.g false 9's were used years ago, and so on.

Players win and lose games...Managers and coaches give advice and guidance....Top players/ captains will improvise at times, such trusted leaders will be given that latitude.....we have few leaders in our squad.

Ron Saunders was a hard task master, as was Shankly as was Clough....Revie's Leeds was a talented, bordering on thuggery outfit, but they physically grafted for their results too.

It comes from the training ground.... we have been a soft touch for ages, now.....its all been so blaise, nice boy, arm around the shoulder too often, when  a stiff upper lip might have sufficed.....I don't think arms around shoulders will be too much in evidence under SG while we are playing like this.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Why would I want to watch a team below us? A team with -19 goal difference. They are crap.

Running for the sake of it, is exactly what Leeds do.

Man City are quite good yes. They have nearly a £40m player in every single position. Twice.

Man city are just quite good..........OK...i would say Brilliant....we obviously have a difference of view.

you don't need to spend huge fee's to work hard.......thats is a complete and utter fallacy.

I am not asking us to emulate everything about Man City, just highlighting the things that don't cost money.....like hard work, determination and intensity.

Leeds , don't run for the sake of it.....they run at teams like Villa to get results....its objective.

They are below us because teams other than Villa, counter their intensity, urgency and work rate......We don't, else we would beat them at home, and we don't.

Like or Loathe Leeds, is deviating from the point.....Their workrate is something, I would love our Villa team to come close to.

You wouldn't want to watch a team below us, because you are a Villa fan like me.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by TRO

[IrishVilla10]

29 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Why would I want to watch a team below us? A team with -19 goal difference. They are crap.

Running for the sake of it, is exactly what Leeds do.

Man City are quite good yes. They have nearly a £40m player in every single position. Twice.

Leeds finished above us last season and have been plagued with injuries this season and are still only 4 points behind us. If there was anything I would learn from them it’s their intensity. We don’t have it. 

[Tomaszk]

 

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Man City work a lot harder than most teams. Pressing is hard work. But they’ve been given orders to play like that, and practice it in training. Gerrard apparently doesn’t want Villa to play with a high press, most teams don’t.

If one Villa player decided to play Man City style, and ran off to press on his own, he’d risk leaving holes in the team and Gerrard might not be happy.

maybe he feels we haven't got the personnel to execute it properly.......That maybe the reason why he doesn't want to use it.

We leave holes, anyway, regardless of the style we choose.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

 

The feeling is entirely mutual....but thanks for coming up with it.

[VillaParkAvenue]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

maybe he feels we haven't got the personnel to execute it properly.......That maybe the reason why he doesn't want to use it.

We leave holes, anyway, regardless of the style we choose.

Yeah it’s either that he doesn’t believe our players can do it well enough, at least not yet. Or he doesn’t think high pressing fits our current system. Would be strange if it was the latter IMO, since we’ve more or less based the setup on Liverpool’s.

[sne]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

I gave up two years ago.

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Why would I want to watch a team below us? A team with -19 goal difference. They are crap.

Running for the sake of it, is exactly what Leeds do.

Man City are quite good yes. They have nearly a £40m player in every single position. Twice.

The uproar on here 2 years ago when we just got promoted and had a similar goal difference. Now its ok for 2nd season Leeds to have it

[Zero7]

I think a few players need dropping, McGinn and Luiz don't appear too motivated, however if he drops then and we lose the knives will be out. Who'd want to be a manager. 

[sharkyvilla]

5 minutes ago, Zero7 said:

I think a few players need dropping, McGinn and Luiz don't appear too motivated, however if he drops then and we lose the knives will be out. Who'd want to be a manager. 

I'd be surprised if McGinn isn't motivated.  He doesn't seem like that kind of character and pretty much every manager has picked him because of his attitude even when he is a bit off the boil form-wise.  Doug was at two international tournaments in the summer, sandwiched between two PL seasons and our other defensive midfielder injured.  It's a big workload.