General Election - TOMORROW!

[TrentVilla]

Who is Gideon?

he is a person who is deemed highly intelligent and someone the labour party are in fear of .. hence the recent campaign against him and the party line against him adopted by a couple of VT regular posters

Yet not intelligent enough to stay away from billionnaire yachts owned by Russian's aye.

And yes I know Mandy was present but I'm not declaring him a danger to the Torries because of his intelligence.

[Richard]

In all honesty Trent I dont think they have a clue about how they would tackle it. They will probably say that until they take office they wont know exactly what they are looking at which may well be a bit of a cop-out.

I think your right, I don't think they have got a clue it certainly has appeared that way from Cameron's dithering on the issue.

I don't see how they can possibly hope to get in without some very solid economic policies.

And of course that opinion is in no way shape or form linked to your political outlook at all but is purely from a neutral perspective isn't it.

[ianrobo1]

In all honesty Trent I dont think they have a clue about how they would tackle it. They will probably say that until they take office they wont know exactly what they are looking at which may well be a bit of a cop-out.

I think your right, I don't think they have got a clue it certainly has appeared that way from Cameron's dithering on the issue.

I don't see how they can possibly hope to get in without some very solid economic policies.

Rightly or wrongly in recent weeks Brown has made up quite a bit of the ground he had previously lost to Cameron.

for labour in the latest poll to have a 13% lead in economic competence over the Troeis is astounding in the worse economic crisis in my lifetime.

The Tories should be storming in front but because they have no policy they are being left behind.

For instance even Cable who was the one who sort of predicted this has even said the borrowing is justified but he would tax the rich more.

The Tories policy was limited cuts to business's in taxes paid for by freezing (cutting) public spending which would of course result in job losses and more benefits being paid out

this is extremely difficult times and it will be 10 years I suspect before we see if any policy is right or worng but the CBI in general seem fairly happy which is a good sign

[mykeyb]

You know something. We could try and have a sensible reasoned debate on this or we can just start launching personal attacks on the party we dont support. If its the former Im all in. If its the later it will be a totally **** waste of time contributing.

[Richard]

And the option for BNP has increased by 4 votes today

[Richard]

You know something. We could try and have a sensible reasoned debate on this or we can just start launching personal attacks on the party we dont support. If its the former Im all in. If its the later it will be a totally **** waste of time contributing.

I'm afraid to say that it's quite obvious that contributors to these threads have political views that will not be moved, intransigence if you will. That does not really help debate.

[ianrobo1]

my your right in these circumstances where you can not realsitically cut interest rates much further (US already down to 0.5%) so it leaves fiscal tax cuts which of course has to be funded by borrowing and/or cuts in public spending

And cuts in public spending during a recession is against all theory as it will only contract the GDP anyway as the government accounts for some 40% of all spending.

The Tories problem is that they are indicating they would do very little and that makes no commone sense as all countries fo whatever colour are doing something and major.

[tonyh29]

I'd be interested to see where Brown supported Lamont - missed that one Tony not saying it isn't true at all - just interesting to see what he said at the time and what has changed his mind since

interesting

The events of that day not only changed for a generation the reputations of our main political parties – they also dramatically altered the relationship between the press and government. On the day that the then Conservative Chancellor stood before the cameras and conceded that the entire economic strategy of the government was in tatters , Gordon Brown – then shadow chancellor – thundered that "colossal errors of judgement by the Prime Minister and Chancellor have betrayed the British people".

Yet Gordon Brown had supported that "colossal error of judgement"

Gordon Brown's unbending devotion to the now discredited policy was ignored by the public at large – but not by his own party. The shadow chancellor had rebuffed internal entreaties that he call for a devaluation of sterling. Brown argued with customary forcefulness that Labour's electoral nemesis had been the perception that it couldn't be trusted to maintain the value of the currency; it was vital never again to be seen as the party of a devalued pound. As late as the morning before Black Wednesday, Brown echoed Norman Lamont in arguing that devaluation might push interest rates up, rather than allow them to fall.

Lingering resentment over this was one of the reasons why Gordon Brown found that he was no longer Labour's favourite son at the time of John Smith's death – and Tony Blair seized the leadership instead.

[drat01]

Interesting Tony thanks for that link - will have a read of that - if I can get the link to work (getting page load error - is the link correct?)

[ianrobo1]

times change, that was what 16 years ago

what do you think the best policy is now to get us out of the mess ?

would you contract the economy even furtehr because it would be 'a price worth paying' ?

or try and spend out of it ?

[tonyh29]

I believe so , it's now hanging for me as well ... probably Gordon didn't want us to see it and is using his new anti-terror laws to block us :-)

[tonyh29]

times change, that was what 16 years ago

indeed , but who raised Lamont in this topic as a scoring point :-)

what do you think the best policy is now to get us out of the mess ?

I don't think spending our way out is a good idea ,the borrowin is out of control ..... Brown is going Keynesian on us where as I'm more of a Friedman school of economics in that I beleive a government's role in the guidance of the economy should be severely restricted

[ianrobo1]

see Tony it is the classic economic arguement but there is little flexbitilty in interest rates and oif banks are not pushing them on it is pointless

then you have the fiscal measures but the Government in temrs of spending is obviously massive and surely this situation calls for more spending because carrying on as we are is no option

One wild prediction today - we will see ID cards scrapped (opps sorry - delayed ) ...

[drat01]

How is mentioning Lamont (and his Cameron links) point scoring Tony? The fact as others are pointing out and many of the polls are is that at the moment the public seem to think that Brown and Darling are better suited to deal with this economic problem than Cameron and Osborne. The credentials of the two opposition party heads are being questioned based on what they have said and done before. How can that be point scoring?

Interesting that you feel that Brown and Darling would not be good, so can I assume you think that Cameron and Osborne would be? If so do they follow your Friedman way of thinking? The general consensus is that they don't isn't it - unless you can find a (working :wink: ) link to show they follow your thinking.

None of the measures announced today or tomorrow will fix the problem. They will help minimize the impact is the thinking. This situation will run for a long time yet and there will be more ups and downs no doubt in the world economy. May as well just sit back and watch it for a few months

[tonyh29]

Most evidence, and even independent studies by the IMF, indicates that the UK economy is less well equipped to weather a recessionary storm. Whilst the government tells us we don't have the same level of government borrowings as many of the countries in Europe, the figures are suspect in my opinion. Borrowing was already occurring before the recession .

Look at all the debts not on the official balance sheet, first of all there is a trillion pounds of public sector pensions debt. Most people do not realise that the superannuation deducted from public sector workers is not funded anywhere, it merely reduces the short term costs of employing them. Their pensions will come out of future taxes.

There is also something that has been occurring at an ever-increasing rate over the last 10 years and that is Private Finance Initiatives (PFI) initiatives. This is where the government doesn't buy something - it actually gets the private sector to build it and then lease it back to them. These are ongoing liabilities not only as far as the lease payments are concerned (which can last for ever) but they also have full repairing leases so even though we don't own them we still have to maintain them - new schools, new hospitals and government establishments. I understand that this is the equivalent of an extra £100 billion of borrowing.

The official balance sheet shows a debt of £635 billion but all the "off balance" sheet liabilities could take the figure to almost three times that amount - £1,854 billion or 127% of GDP.

[TrentVilla]

In all honesty Trent I dont think they have a clue about how they would tackle it. They will probably say that until they take office they wont know exactly what they are looking at which may well be a bit of a cop-out.

I think your right, I don't think they have got a clue it certainly has appeared that way from Cameron's dithering on the issue.

I don't see how they can possibly hope to get in without some very solid economic policies.

And of course that opinion is in no way shape or form linked to your political outlook at all but is purely from a neutral perspective isn't it.

No its very much from my political view point, but then I'm not making an assesment here on one parties suitability to run an economy am I? Just on the actions of an individual which in my view were rather stupid, even Torries must think it daft of him to open himself up to such easy scorn.

[TrentVilla]

I beleive a government's role in the guidance of the economy should be severely restricted

And in that sentance so much is said of the divide both in this thread and on this subject by and large.

I guess it all really still comes down to the old laissez-faire debate in one form or another.

[Richard]

In all honesty Trent I dont think they have a clue about how they would tackle it. They will probably say that until they take office they wont know exactly what they are looking at which may well be a bit of a cop-out.

I think your right, I don't think they have got a clue it certainly has appeared that way from Cameron's dithering on the issue.

I don't see how they can possibly hope to get in without some very solid economic policies.

And of course that opinion is in no way shape or form linked to your political outlook at all but is purely from a neutral perspective isn't it.

No its very much from my political view point, but then I'm not making an assesment here on one parties suitability to run an economy am I? Just on the actions of an individual which in my view were rather stupid, even Torries must think it daft of him to open himself up to such easy scorn.

I think you need to read the bit I have quoted again as it seems that you are.

[TrentVilla]

In all honesty Trent I dont think they have a clue about how they would tackle it. They will probably say that until they take office they wont know exactly what they are looking at which may well be a bit of a cop-out.

I think your right, I don't think they have got a clue it certainly has appeared that way from Cameron's dithering on the issue.

I don't see how they can possibly hope to get in without some very solid economic policies.

And of course that opinion is in no way shape or form linked to your political outlook at all but is purely from a neutral perspective isn't it.

No its very much from my political view point, but then I'm not making an assesment here on one parties suitability to run an economy am I? Just on the actions of an individual which in my view were rather stupid, even Torries must think it daft of him to open himself up to such easy scorn.

I think you need to read the bit I have quoted again as it seems that you are.

Sorry Richard but your post was in relation to a post I made about one individual, nothing to do with the economy or a parties suitability to run it.

With regards to running the economy what I have said is that I would like Cameron to actually state some policies on what he would do in terms of the economy, until he does I will suspect cuts in spending in the public sector.

I'm certainly not dismissing their suitability to run the economy as I don't have the first clue what they would actually do, that is the whole point.

But if you can point me in the direction of me making a post in which I totally dismiss the Torries of being capable of running the economy (akin to the one by TheTrees I think it was to which I initally replied) feel free to point it out.

[villab0y]

Conservative

No reason other than Labour are shit.

15 for BNP and only one brave enough to admit it....

Why be ashamed if you feel so strongly about it?!